New Trust Statement (14 Viewers)

[Nick]

I think this statement and recent statements but the trust seem to suggest.

Council are not been helpful with their statements and need to stop them.
Council should butt out of things that are not directly related to them.

Lots of football club owners decisions past, present and they seem to think future and actions have contributed to us now playing in division three. We are now in the verge of loses both our academy and Ricoh facilities. That they believe the solution to this especially the future bit is new owners. They seem to believe fan ownership is the solution to this and want to work with the owners to achieve it.

I get the impression from their statements that they know others have contributed to this but they put the club's actions and decision as a bigger contributor.

I get the impression that they are encouraging all parties to get together to talk regarding the academy. However they expect the club to take the lead on this (which makes sense it is our academy)

I have no issue with the club's actions being dragged up and put into the spotlight.

I think we need to get a full picture of the bigger picture of what is going on, while people like the Council, CSF and Wasps get no real backlash it does allow them to get away with murder. It isn't saying "no you shouldn't shout at SISU", it is "you should shout at all of them".

It is all well and good for the trust to shout about new owners to come in, but they are still in the position of playing in a Wasps stadium and having a Wasps Academy.

If the trust know something (ie somebody lined up) then they should be telling people, not like the Haskell scenario with (just trust us) type rubbish.

 

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[Wheelfass]

With the setup and current ownership I honestly can't see anything other than our demise.

Do you know what......... The more you plough through all of the posts and try to digest and make sense all of the possibilliies and scenarios and look at the credebilities of the corporations involved, the more convinced I become that "our demise" will be the inevitable outcome. What makes this such a tragic situation is that it's out of reach to the people that really care and that the powers-that-be will never consider our feelings or loyalty when it comes to taking the decision to pull the plug.

 

[dongonzalos]

Trust statements......they're a bit like buses ain't they...

...you wait for fucking ages and see no sign of one.....then 2 come along at the same time.

Curiously though, the first was clean, tidy & punctual....

...the 2nd then just hurtled round the corner beeping its horn, didn't appear on any timetable & looked like school kids had smeared shit on all the windows...

I got the impression the second one was born out of anger from a 6-1 defeat. Maybe wrong but it felt like that.

 

[Grendel]

Do you know what......... The more you plough through all of the posts and try to digest and make sense all of the possibilliies and scenarios and look at the credebilities of the corporations involved, the more convinced I become that "our demise" will be the inevitable outcome. What makes this such a tragic situation is that it's out of reach to the people that really care and that the powers-that-be will never consider our feelings or loyalty when it comes to taking the decision to pull the plug.

Correct our demise is inevitable.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

The only stuff about court cases is coming from everybody but SISU at the minute isn't it?

It is the Council / Wasps / Millerchip that are banging on about it.

Nobody clicks on that Duggins says "drop the legals (and now pay us money you dont legally owe us) and we will help" which implies he has the power to help with things, which then implies he has the power to not help...

Do you believe that Sisu have finished their legal action? I thought that they had confirmed they were going to appeal again. Don't they still have JR 2 lined up? I have to say that I would find it hard to negotiate on certain issues with a party who are suing me about something else. I am not excusing Wasps. They are a franchise organisation every bit as bad as MK Dons. They shouldn't be here. The fact is that they are and our short term future depends on negotiating a deal with them. What is more important to Sisu, the survival of our football club or the survival of their legal action?
I also think that Duggins should be pursued for his "no comment" remark. if the council said that CCFC and CRFC would not be harmed by the arrival of Wasps they should ensure that this happens.Shouldn't the local media as well as the trust pursue him on this?
It does seem that every organisation that come into contact with Sisu do not want anything more to do with them after a while, even an organisation such as the Higgs Trust who could not have been more pro CCFC prior to Sisu's arrival.

 

[Nick]

Do you know what......... The more you plough through all of the posts and try to digest and make sense all of the possibilliies and scenarios and look at the credebilities of the corporations involved, the more convinced I become that "our demise" will be the inevitable outcome. What makes this such a tragic situation is that it's out of reach to the people that really care and that the powers-that-be will never consider our feelings or loyalty when it comes to taking the decision to pull the plug.

The sad thing is, even Italia is saying that it will be made to look like SISU's fault...

What is even sadder, is that people like the council seem to be mad for it.

 

[Nick]

Do you believe that Sisu have finished their legal action? I thought that they had confirmed they were going to appeal again. Don't they still have JR 2 lined up? I have to say that I would find it hard to negotiate on certain issues with a party who are suing me about something else. I am not excusing Wasps. They are a franchise organisation every bit as bad as MK Dons. They shouldn't be here. The fact is that they are and our short term future depends on negotiating a deal with them. What is more important to Sisu, the survival of our football club or the survival of their legal action.
I also think that Duggins should be pursued for his "no comment" remark.Ir the council said that CCFC and CRFC would not be harmed by the arrival of Wasps they should ensure that this happens.Shouldn't the local media as well as the trust pursue him on this?
It does seem that every organisation that come into contact with Sisu do not want anything more to do with them after a while, even an organisation such as the Higgs Trust who could not have been more pro CCFC prior to Sisu's arrival.

Of course, I meant frustrated in general and have said on other posts that the media should be hammering them. I'd love for a Journo to follow them down the street making them answer questions.

All parties need to be made uncomfortable in all of this, they should be accountable for the shit they speak. My issue isn't that people are being nasty to SISU, it is that they seem to be the only ones who people demand things from. Anybody involved should be held to account for things they say or do. None of this "but sisu are our owners so only they can hurt the club" crap that keeps getting banded about.

 

[Godiva]

Never said I support it other than it is the better of the 2 evils as it stands.
I'm telling you how it might happen.
Sisu need to negotiate to stop it happening which includes dropping court cases and building relationships.
We will be liquidated if they don't do this.
They will never get there money back so why not just cut there losses and sell up for what the clubs worth?

Isn't that what Hoffman said when he made the offer of £1 (letterhead gate)?
Is he back?

 

[dongonzalos]

I have no issue with the club's actions being dragged up and put into the spotlight.

I think we need to get a full picture of the bigger picture of what is going on, while people like the Council, CSF and Wasps get no real backlash it does allow them to get away with murder. It isn't saying "no you shouldn't shout at SISU", it is "you should shout at all of them".

It is all well and good for the trust to shout about new owners to come in, but they are still in the position of playing in a Wasps stadium and having a Wasps Academy.

If the trust know something (ie somebody lined up) then they should be telling people, not like the Haskell scenario with (just trust us) type rubbish.

I don't know if they know something about someone been lined up as they talking about fan ownership. So that doesn't sound like they do.

I guess people shout more at who they hold as having the biggest responsibility. I always felt the council were just fighting back and we were getting back what we were instigating. So the owners would get no sympathy from me whatsoever. I wasn't prepared to defend SISU purely because they were the club's owners so if you didn't that somehow meant you were anti club.
You personally didn't take that stance but some others would infer that whilst debating.

Now I am unsure if the council are taking front foot and attacking SISU as oppose to just defending themselves. Or is it literally this legal action. I.e as far as the council are concerned whilst the legal action is still ongoing they are still under attack and they are just defending themselves.
The council seem to make out it is all to do with the legal action and getting every penny back that they had to spend in the legal action.
I would love to see in a parallel world if the legal action was dropped and the council recompensated for every penny they spent.
Would negotiations be now going smoothly on all fronts.
Or
Is it as some think a campaign to destroy SISU at all costs and once the legal action is dropped and all money compensated.
Would the council using their relationship with Wasps try and kill off SISU.
Problem is the likes of me and you can only guess which way is more likely and I don't think we will never know.
Also for me the frustration is I genuinely believe JR1 and 2 have absolutely no chance of success.
So it is sitting there aggravating people and whilst it's there we as a club are screwed.

 

[Godiva]

Of course, I meant frustrated in general and have said on other posts that the media should be hammering them. I'd love for a Journo to follow them down the street making them answer questions.

All parties need to be made uncomfortable in all of this, they should be accountable for the shit they speak. My issue isn't that people are being nasty to SISU, it is that they seem to be the only ones who people demand things from. Anybody involved should be held to account for things they say or do. None of this "but sisu are our owners so only they can hurt the club" crap that keeps getting banded about.

What are the odds that SISU will be offered a settlement out of court (undisclosed value) in exchange for writing off the debts and selling the club for £1?

 

[dongonzalos]

On the liquidation suggestion. Wasn't this debating in great depth and the conclusion was whatever happens Liquidation won't?

 

[fernandopartridge]

What are the odds that SISU will be offered a settlement out of court (undisclosed value) in exchange of writing off the debts and selling the club for £1?

Who is going to make such an offer and with what money?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

The thing is, I am all for FOI'ing the shit out of it to prove him wrong like I have said above.

It is just that people like Duggins can sit there and pedal stuff and get away with it, where are the FOI's flying in other directions?

I think that both should be targets. It is almost like you are saying Fisher is okay because others are in the wrong too. Sisu through TF have consistently told us that this site or that site has been identified for our new stadium. As far as I can see there is no proof that what he is saying is true. There is a lot of evidence that there really were no sites. It seems that you are saying don't criticise TF unless you criticise Duggins. Both are in the wrong. What I was saying to Otis is that Sisu are still coming out with these statements even though he thinks they are improving.
I have to say that having listened to Chris Anderson at the Trust open meeting soon after he arrived, I had hoped things would change for the better. There is little evidence of this as yet.

 

[MusicDating]

That is the thing. How can he help with Ricoh negotiations? If he can help so much, surely he has the say to hinder.

I'd love nothing more than the trust to go batshit mental at the Council, CSF, Wasps, SISU etc. I'd certainly be right behind them as much as I could.

It is like everybody should be called out about every little thing, they should worry about what they say because people are going to be there waiting to catch them out and prove them wrong.

Fisher says X Y and Z - Go at him with facts "No Tim, that's wrong, why did you say this"
Duggins says he will help if they pay up "How are you going to help, what influence do you have etc." He gave a "no comment" about the club being damaged by wasps and the conditions, and it never gets mentioned again.... How?
Breed says ccfc told him many times they were leaving "Ok son, can you send us over the documents proving this".
Wasps say they wont do a deal, hammer them with "what has the legal action got to do with it? Is there other legal action we dont know about?"

Almost like a bloody detective who wants to chase everybody down to just get to the actual facts.

They used to be called journalists...

 

[Nick]

I think that both should be targets. It is almost like you are saying Fisher is okay because others are in the wrong too. Sisu through TF have consistently told us that this site or that site has been identified for our new stadium. As far as I can see there is no proof that what he is saying is true. There is a lot of evidence that there really were no sites. It seems that you are saying don't criticise TF unless you criticise Duggins. Both are in the wrong. What I was saying to Otis is that Sisu are still coming out with these statements even though he thinks they are improving.
I have to say that having listened to Chris Anderson at the Trust open meeting soon after he arrived, I had hoped things would change for the better. There is little evidence of this as yet.

No, it isn't saying Fisher is ok. It's saying he should be hammered on everything he says as should everybody else.

He says "new stadium" and it's foi to councils to prove him wrong, which is great.

Council leader gives his no comment, it's a shrug of the shoulders and that's it.

I'm far from saying don't question tf, I'm saying hammer them all. See how each slip up.

I'm not sure what gives you the idea I think tf shouldn't be questioned, I've said all along hammer everybody, and it was quite clear in my post you quoted? No idea why you would say that when it couldn't be any clearer.

If anything, people are saying every other party is ok because Fisher is bad. Which is my point.

 

[RegTheDonk]

What do they know..... How come this up rising has started all of a sudden wasn't like this at Oldham in May!

Probably a reaction to our poor start to the season. if we'd won every game this statement wouldn't have been published....IMHO.

 

[Wheelfass]

On the liquidation suggestion. Wasn't this debating in great depth and the conclusion was whatever happens Liquidation won't?

Don't hold your breath Dong. None of the parties involved can be trusted to do what they say they are going to do or not going to do.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

No, it isn't saying Fisher is ok. It's saying he should be hammered on everything he says as should everybody else.

He says "new stadium" and it's foi to councils to prove him wrong, which is great.

Council leader gives his no comment, it's a shrug of the shoulders and that's it.

I'm far from saying don't question tf, I'm saying hammer them all. See how each slip up.

I'm not sure what gives you the idea I think tf shouldn't be questioned, I've said all along hammer everybody, and it was quite clear in my post you quoted? No idea why you would say that when it couldn't be any clearer.

If anything, people are saying every other party is ok because Fisher is bad. Which is my point.

It's because as soon as TF is mentioned you then bring up the Duggins issue. It seemed from your reply that you were saying don't criticise TF unless you mention Duggins too. I was commenting on a post by Otis where he was saying he felt Sisu were improving. TF's comment with regards to another site other than the BPA I felt contradicted his view.
Two separate items really.

 

[dongonzalos]

What are the odds that SISU will be offered a settlement out of court (undisclosed value) in exchange for writing off the debts and selling the club for £1?

How would you feel about that if it was a Wasps related subsidiary picking it up?

 

[Nick]

It's because as soon as TF is mentioned you then bring up the Duggins issue. It seemed from your reply that you were saying don't criticise TF unless you mention Duggins too. I was commenting on a post by Otis where he was saying he felt Sisu were improving. TF's comment with regards to another site other than the BPA I felt contradicted his view.
Two separate items really.

It is an example of the difference.

Fisher rightly gets hammered on everything he says, Duggins can say what he wants and nobody bats an eyelid.

I couldn't have made it any more clearer that there should be media and fans groups nipping at the heels of every party waiting to call them out on everything they say.

 

[Grendel]

On the liquidation suggestion. Wasn't this debating in great depth and the conclusion was whatever happens Liquidation won't?

Given that it's very unlikely any debt would be paid out of administration it may well suit bothered current owner and the potential new one as it would mean a club at the bottom of the pyramid.

 

[Otis]

Where will it play?

In some TV studio somewhere isn't it? Not quite sure because I have never seen the draw be made.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

There won't be an out of court settlement, because the only on-going case (as far as I am aware) is an appeal in the High Court (or it may even have got to the Supreme Court now, I forget) on the Judicial Review against the City Council. The outcome of a JR is not financial compensation (e.g. to SISU), but a potential fine, and an order to reverse the decision.
I think that is why I agree that SISU should drop it and move on, which could allow negotiation by all parties to see CCFC staying at the Ricoh (ideally with some increased revenue allowing us to buy better players) and retaining a Cat 2 academy.

 

[Nick]

There won't be an out of court settlement, because the only on-going case (as far as I am aware) is an appeal in the High Court (or it may even have got to the Supreme Court now, I forget) on the Judicial Review against the City Council. The outcome of a JR is not financial compensation (e.g. to SISU), but a potential fine, and an order to reverse the decision.
I think that is why I agree that SISU should drop it and move on, which could allow negotiation by all parties to see CCFC staying at the Ricoh (ideally with some increased revenue allowing us to buy better players) and retaining a Cat 2 academy.

You would assume that "personal damages" would be a seperate case if it was ruled against CCC wouldn't you?

 

[oldfiver]

In some TV studio somewhere isn't it? Not quite sure because I have never seen the draw be made.

no silly ijut! where will your newly owned club play ?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Well that's the issue, Nick. Much like the outcome of an inquest into someone's death being a prelude to criminal charges being brought, if the Council was found to have acted unlawfully, then a civil case for damages could be brought in the longer term.

 

[dongonzalos]

Given that it's very unlikely any debt would be paid out of administration it may well suit bothered current owner and the potential new one as it would mean a club at the bottom of the pyramid.

I was under the impression the advantages tax related from Liquidation comes in less financially than an adminstration process.
I assume SISU's primary objective in such circumstances would be try and get any penny back they can. So even it is was just one million better off after fees the adminstration route would be chosen

 

[oldfiver]

There won't be an out of court settlement, because the only on-going case (as far as I am aware) is an appeal in the High Court (or it may even have got to the Supreme Court now, I forget) on the Judicial Review against the City Council. The outcome of a JR is not financial compensation (e.g. to SISU), but a potential fine, and an order to reverse the decision.
I think that is why I agree that SISU should drop it and move on, which could allow negotiation by all parties to see CCFC staying at the Ricoh (ideally with some increased revenue allowing us to buy better players) and retaining a Cat 2 academy.

Are you now saying JR1 is holding up negotiations with WASPs for staying at the Ricoh and Duggins can help - if SISU stop arguing with CCC?
How are these connected?

 

[dongonzalos]

You would assume that "personal damages" would be a seperate case if it was ruled against CCC wouldn't you?

You can also claim financial compensation as a remedy option. However you would need to prove your own actions didn't contribute to the situation.
Ie are you whiter than white

 

[oldfiver]

I was under the impression the advantages tax related from Liquidation comes in less financially than a adminstration process.
I assume SISU's primary Of objective in such circumstances would be try and get any penny back they can. So even it is was just one million better off after fees the adminstration route would be chosen

I doubt we know where the SISU investors reside for tax purposes so I don't think that falls highly in the discussions

 

[Otis]

no silly ijut! where will your newly owned club play ?

The Ricoh of course! Unless money can be raised to build a new stadium.

I would destroy Wasps from within. Work with them, butter them up, try and get a good deal at the Ricoh, put money into the development side of things (playing staff and academy) and get City up into the Championship and challenging for the Premier!!

Build City's profile back up and watch the Wasps project fail, then buy up the stadium and rent it out to Wasps at a highly inflated price.

Would also be sending them weekly Bairstow and Eves brochures listing all the available land plots in the Greater London area.

 

[Nick]

The Ricoh of course! Unless money can be raised to build a new stadium.

I would destroy Wasps from within. Work with them, butter them up, try and get a good deal at the Ricoh, put money into the development side of things (playing staff and academy) and get City up into the Championship and challenging for the Premier!!

Build City's profile back up and watch the Wasps project fail, then buy up the stadium and rent it out to Wasps at a highly inflated price.

Would also be sending them weekly Bairstow and Eves brochures listing all the available land plots in the Greater London area.

Nah, I would just refuse any negotiations if they were renting and blame it on something unrelated like Global Warming.

 

[oldfiver]

The Ricoh of course! Unless money can be raised to build a new stadium.

I would destroy Wasps from within. Work with them, butter them up, try and get a good deal at the Ricoh, put money into the development side of things (playing staff and academy) and get City up into the Championship and challenging for the Premier!!

Build City's profile back up and watch the Wasps project fail, then buy up the stadium and rent it out to Wasps at a highly inflated price.

Would also be sending them weekly Bairstow and Eves brochures listing all the available land plots in the Greater London area.

You would need CCC approval of course - just like BPA?

 

[Otis]

You would need CCC approval of course - just like BPA?

I'm playing along, cos seemingly for some reason you appear to believe I might actually win the lottery!

The answer to your question is that I am not Sisu. The council have a problem with Sisu. I pay my taxes and always put my bins out facing the right way.

The council like me.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Are you now saying JR1 is holding up negotiations with WASPs for staying at the Ricoh and Duggins can help - if SISU stop arguing with CCC?
How are these connected?

Do you know of any other legal challenges that Wasps, Higgs and CCC would be referring to when requiring SISU to drop them?