RIP Labour (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
With the polls showing Corbyn on track for a bigger landslide than before - assuming the 100K that they've 'accidentally' forgotten to send voting papers to actually get them there's a new plan brewing.
The old favourite, we can't win so lets change the rules. Rumours about that the PLP want to push though the abolition of one member one vote before the newly elected NEC members take office. That would mean the PLP's votes would carry as much weight as the other members combined. The effective result of that would be whoever the PLP wanted would win.
The old favourite, we can't win so lets change the rules. Rumours about that the PLP want to push though the abolition of one member one vote before the newly elected NEC members take office. That would mean the PLP's votes would carry as much weight as the other members combined. The effective result of that would be whoever the PLP wanted would win.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Corbyn should have hands look to see if Robinson was on the train as he found have sat next to that shit in first class as no one else would want to.
Corbyn is mad an totally unelectable
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
The 100K figure is rubbish, it is actually very small. I didn't get my ballot papers until ten days after the opening date. If you think that there ar ehalf a million papers being sent out then it is not surprising that some have gone astray. That hasn't stopped Momentum making up some bollocks of a MSM/MI5 conspiracy though.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I have to say if Corbyn wins then I will seriously think about leaving the party, been a member since 1983. He is totally inept and unelectable. What makes it worse is the Momentum lot and all the unsavoury characters that he is attracting to Labour. Even Nellist, Galloway and Hatton are thinking of rejoining.
I did vote for Smith but I have no doubt he will win the Leadership race. When it comes to the next GE he will get absolutely slaughtered, his dodgy IRA, Hamas and Press TV past will come back to haunt him and we will get wiped out. Vote Corbyn if you want a Tory governement for the next decade.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
If he gets in it will be a battle of polar opposites May against Corbyn and she will win through default, with a tiny turnout. I thought Andy Burnham should have stood with Chuka as his assistant.
May is a reborn Thatcher and is surrounded by a motley crew of incompetents like that shit Hunt.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Exactly which is why we need a strong opposition and someone who can actually WIN an election. Now, I'm not saying Owen Smith can, but he would certainly be a better bet than Corbyn. As I said, it will be a bloodbath at the next election.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
A Tory government for another decade would be awful they will have sold off everything to their mates by then, I don't think Smith can either but he has a better chance than Corbyn, I just can't work out why Burham never throws his hat in the ring always strikes me as very knowledgable and I think Chuka could push May as well.
When you look at Parliament it is getting full of old men like Robinson the most conservative man in Labour history (although some of my dislike for him may come from damage he has caused my family many years ago)or career politicians who you wouldn't know which side they are on.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's obvious Corbyn would win - the parliamentary party has two choices. It takes the very brave step of a no confidence vote in him and then the vast majority form a new party - the parliamentary Labour Party - and they then appeal to the speaker to make it's leader the official opposition.
Either that or on the day the result is announced find someone else to stand against him and tell Corbyn that he will have challenges every year until he resigns.
Either that or on the day the result is announced find someone else to stand against him and tell Corbyn that he will have challenges every year until he resigns.
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It is democratic because as a leader of a political party that is there to serve the entire electorate - not an invasion of "new" members that would make keir hardy turn in his grave. If that's what Corbyn wants he should join the SWP and lead that - and take his IRA henchman McDonald and his ridiculous ex lover Dianne Abbott with him.
They have a duty to give people an electable alternative. A country with one party as the only one who wants to govern is a disaster whichever way you vote. The party hierarchy need to grow a pair as they did in the early 80's and cut these anarchists at the knees.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The PLP have shown themselves more incompetent than Corbyn. Having offered a left leaning alternative who was more 'electable', I remain convinced he'd have stepped aside. Instead, the centre Blairite factions mounted the coup and then, when they found that could not work, Smith lurched left... insincerely.
It's the PLP who are pushing Corbyn to fight. There's a will for a left leaning alternative, but no ability to present a convincing one.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Amongst the electorate their is no leaning at all
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I disagree.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Would they be able to do that? If Corbyn is elected by the party members and they don't want to serve under his leadership they'd have to resign from the party wouldn't they?
How would they be able to remain the Labour party?
Johnnythespider
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The only true left leaning Labour Party was obliterated at the polls
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
This should be interesting...
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Did anyone watch this. It was appalling, how on earth it ever made it to air is beyond me. Clearly made with an agenda but despite their best efforts couldn't come up with any actual evidence to support their claims.
By what I am sure is complete coincidence there was also an anti-corbyn piece as this weeks Panorama. Even more coincidentally a bit of digging reveals both were made by Films of Record. And in a further coincidence their MD, Neil Grant, had a huge falling out with the Labour left wing years ago, a grudge he admits himself he carries to this day.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
251,417 and 59.5% of the vote last time for Corbyn, 313,309 and 61.8% of the vote this time.
But then you have 206,000 who didn't vote.
Around 130,000 who joined after the retrospectively imposed deadline, the vast majority of which are thought to be Corbyn supporters.
60,000 did not get their ballot paper due to IT issues, if you choose to believe that.
54,000 registered supporters, the ones who paid £25, were either told they weren't on the electoral register or their payment had failed. Up to 20,000 trade union affiliates not processed, there hasn't been a final number on that yet.
Over 11,000 suspended from the party for having previously indicated support for another party, in some cases as little as a single tweet saying a MP from another party had made a good point.
Surely they have to unite behind Corbyn now, or if they can't do that leave the party and form their own.
But then you have 206,000 who didn't vote.
Around 130,000 who joined after the retrospectively imposed deadline, the vast majority of which are thought to be Corbyn supporters.
60,000 did not get their ballot paper due to IT issues, if you choose to believe that.
54,000 registered supporters, the ones who paid £25, were either told they weren't on the electoral register or their payment had failed. Up to 20,000 trade union affiliates not processed, there hasn't been a final number on that yet.
Over 11,000 suspended from the party for having previously indicated support for another party, in some cases as little as a single tweet saying a MP from another party had made a good point.
Surely they have to unite behind Corbyn now, or if they can't do that leave the party and form their own.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
For the sake of democratic process as a whole the labour MP's need to isolate themselves from parliament. Let Corbyn and his fellow anarchic anti Semite terrorist worshiping thugs sit alone in parliament - then immediately declare a no confidence vote and start the process again.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Where does that end? He'll stand again and win again. Unless they drastically change the rules, like scrapping one member one vote, which would alienate a massive percentage of the party members.
If they don't agree with the direction of the party under a democratically elected leader with the clear support of the party members then isn't it down to them to leave the party and continue as independents or form their own party?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If that happened in the 80's it wouldn't exist now. Then we had the likes of healey standing up to them. Big politicians. Look at what Kinnock is saying - hardly new labour but he knows the score - Corbyn represents a fraction of labour voters and must be stopped
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But what you're suggesting is you have a democratic election for leader, then you don't like the result so you ignore it and do it again. You get the same result, so you ignore it and go again. How many times do you keep doing that and how much damage is it doing to the party?
If those Labour party voters you refer to are so against Corbyn why didn't they join up to vote against him?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
That's not the way politics works I'm afraid. Party membership is tiny. Many of these members are not Labour Party members at all but socialists and anarchists and extreme zeonosts. The democratic thing would have been at the original ballot to just have the original membership vote.
Most voters are not party members and never will be. The party is self destructing. Corbyn is foot and McDonnell is most definitely Benn - the real puppet master.
There is no healey or Kinnock emerging who have the stomach for a fight. Unless you want a one party state led by Chairman May I suggest you prey someone emerges from the pack.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I'm a Labour Party member and currently a Corbin supporter and I can tell you that Walmart you're saying is categorically nonsense. JC has won a majority of members again. Local party meetings and membership has not been flooded by lunatics, there is categorically no evidence of this. If there is I'd like you to show it to me before continuing along the same line.
Almost every member of the party want us to unite and take it to the government. The outliers in this situation are a dozen or so members of the PLP who are resisting the power slipping from their fingers.
I agree there is currently a problem with electability but that is due to not looking credible due to in fighting. Blair even said he'd prefer Theresa May as PM that Corbyn, what more proof do you need.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Frankly anyone with a brain cell would prefer may to Corbyn. A union dominated anti democratic terrorist supporting Marxist government would destroy the economic stability of the uk in less than a year.
As for no evidence what planet are you on? Read for yourself the bullying and intimidation of anyone who tried to stand against him. Like a extremists he is a bully and sits back while the mob silence any opposition.
That may be your idea of democracy. It's not mine.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Every time I see a socialist on TV talking they say they want to fight the Tories. Why? Why don't they decide for themselves what is right and then support the Tories when they agree? It seems the whole movement exists only to be negative about what the other party thinks. Corbyn talks about "grown up politics" and yet he and his followers are the most childish in behaviour you could find. They are all refusing to wear the Labour party colours presently because the badge was sponsored by a union that supported Smith.
Here are some of the countries that have tried Corbyn's ideas, some have since partially recovered after they gave up on socialism:
Russia
China
Viet Nam
Cambodia
North Korea
Yemen
Cuba
Venezuela
Nicaragua
Albania
I didn't count the greater eastern bloc, because of course they didn't choose to be subjected to it.
M&B Stand
Well-Known Member
Socialism always looks more appealing on paper and in theory, capitalism works better in practice.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
I agree, looks great on paper. I'm sure I'd have supported Marx when he first wrote the communist manifesto. But it has proven time and time again as a complete disincentive for people to work hard or come up with new ideas. Everyone with any ambition wants to leave, so they have to bring in rules that you cannot leave. And as in all large organisations it becomes corrupt and full of weasels at the top - but with no challenge possible it gets more corrupt and more full of weasels than ever.
The other thing I don;'t get about modern-day socialism is that they keep wheeling out the old arguments as if the world were exactly the same as it was in the early 20th century. "make it fairer..."; "the poor downtrodden working man...". And yet the working man now has a very good standard of life. Socialism is, in my opinion, and anachronism and I really don't understand how so many supposedly intelligent people don't see through it.
I was fine with New Labour; it was essentially a centrist party and Brown aside they governed sensibly. But God help the country if Corbyn ever gets close to power.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
At least we know Corbyn is a nut job. Smith looked electable and when he suggested he would sit round the table to negotiate with IS it was more dangerous than I could have imagined. It should be a shoe in at the next election, but hope Conservative voters don't get complacent or the mentalists might manage to take over the asylum.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
He's a distant cousin of mine and it's the subject of much humour in Holland as my family is about as anti-communist as you could imagine. The ancestor of mine who financially supported Karl when he was writing Das Capital was himself a wealthy merchant banker.
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
Yes, I knew he was from a wealthy family and had a good job in Germany before he left for Paris. But that makes the story even better I think. Despite being wealthy himself he decided it was wrong that ordinary working people were abused and did something about it.