The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Quite ironic you should say that Grendel
Chris Anderson (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter ccfchoi87
- Start date
Quite ironic you should say that Grendel
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Ah the offer that transpired wasn't an offer at all.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Says you lol.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Although I still preferred my staged incentive led deal idea.the council demanded criteria was to be met before they would consider selling ACL.
That should have been an incentive led proposal.
Each time the owners achieved one the criteria a portion of ACL should have been sold to them at a discounted rate.
By the time they got full control of ACL a thriving football team would have also been on the go.
That should have been an incentive led proposal.
Each time the owners achieved one the criteria a portion of ACL should have been sold to them at a discounted rate.
By the time they got full control of ACL a thriving football team would have also been on the go.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Did you think he was talking out of his arse when he left the club but was still defending actions taken by the owners to the hilt?
Or just now when he critices them?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It was a stupid idea which was rightly derided as such.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
And you use 'lol' too.......isn't that sweet.
Listen Grendel, you best be off to bed and get yourself tucked in as it's going to be another long day for you tomorrow endlessly posting and pouring scorn on whatever news we get instead of doing that high flying job of yours. Good night fella.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
You can expect other people to do things they don't see as being in their interest in order to support issues that are important to you till you're blue in the face, but it won't change a thing.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I can't help but get the feeling that SISU might have dropped the legals by now if people didn't keep insisting on them doing it before negotiations on something can move on. The Butts for example. If they drop the legals a deal for the Butts can be done. Why would they then drop the legals? Think of it in the simplest terms. We're talking about a company that couldn't scrape 1p together to make an offer for ACL. Are they really going to be able to get the money together to not only come on board at the BPA but also develop it? Can't see it. So why drop the legals? You might have to admit that actually you can't do fuck all because you haven't got the money and that ain't going to happen so don't drop the legals and you don't have to admit anything.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I can't see why he would make shit up. But then I didn't think there was a reason for him to make up things about the two potential stadium sites he was talking about after he had left the club.
I agree, but in that scenario wouldn't you expect him to say he won't deal with SISU at all? Not drop the legals against a third party and then we'll move forward.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="chiefdave, post: 1163904, member: 300"]I can't see why he would make shit up. But then I didn't think there was a reason for him to make up things about the two potential stadium sites he was talking about after he had left the club.
I agree, but in that scenario wouldn't you expect him to say he won't deal with SISU at all? Not drop the legals against a third party and then we'll move forward.[/QUOTE]
Never heard of "Gagging Clauses" in contracts then?
I agree, but in that scenario wouldn't you expect him to say he won't deal with SISU at all? Not drop the legals against a third party and then we'll move forward.[/QUOTE]
Never heard of "Gagging Clauses" in contracts then?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
yes but we're not talking about him being gagged are we. we're talking about him making statements after he has left the club. he didn't have to say anything and if he couldn't contractually why is he now?
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Because the "Timespan" of the gagging clause has expired now?
For a person that comes over as being knowledgable, You're not atm are you?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
So you really think when Kieran left the club there was an agreement for him to put out false information for 3.5 months after which he could then openly say anything he wanted?
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Ask yourself why after 50 years are some astronauts are only now coming forward about things.
Why don't you tell me? you seem to know everything in life.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Could it not be that he was a mushroom?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
There is no extradition from Ireland now we're out of the EU. :angelic:
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but not as stupid as it transpires in encouraging our owners not to agree rent deals.
One method would have probably led to us owning gradually owning ACL and at the same time building up trust and developing a well run club.
The other has led to Wasps owning ACL and us with little or no options and will probably leading to use securing a less favourable rent deal to the one we turned down.
Still you got to do your bit of deriding so I am sure you were happy
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Was never going to happen your way don.
The value of shares is in the control that they give you. Do you honestly think that once SISU had got to 51% simple control that the deal would remain intact given the track record they have, which would leave the original shareholders vulnerable and able to be overruled on many decisions. Do you honestly think the council or charity would want to work with them? Why would the original shareholders sell at a discount? It needed to be a clean break because neither the council nor charity had the money to invest in the renovations needed, neither had the commercial nous to drive the business forward. Getting shares on the drip would mean that whilst the objectives you hint at were not met that CCFC probably would not have control of ACL and therefore not benefit from the controlling share of incomes. The valuation of each party of ACL was widely different to the valuation placed on it by SISU. An idea in theory but I do not see how it could have worked
The value of shares is in the control that they give you. Do you honestly think that once SISU had got to 51% simple control that the deal would remain intact given the track record they have, which would leave the original shareholders vulnerable and able to be overruled on many decisions. Do you honestly think the council or charity would want to work with them? Why would the original shareholders sell at a discount? It needed to be a clean break because neither the council nor charity had the money to invest in the renovations needed, neither had the commercial nous to drive the business forward. Getting shares on the drip would mean that whilst the objectives you hint at were not met that CCFC probably would not have control of ACL and therefore not benefit from the controlling share of incomes. The valuation of each party of ACL was widely different to the valuation placed on it by SISU. An idea in theory but I do not see how it could have worked
oucho
Well-Known Member
For me, the path to redemption is reasonably clear:
1 - cancel the legal cases, to start to repair broken relationships with the other parties
2 - sign up the best long-term lease deal we can get at the Ricoh (possibly with an option for part-ownership in the future) both in terms of rent and access to other revenues
3 - work to see if the academy can stay at the current site with some long term security
3a - if 3 is not possible, re-locate the academy, possibly in conjunction with Warwick Uni or other local stakeholder
4 - invest more in the team, to create an on-field "product" that will enthuse fans again
5 - revive the moribund CCFC supporters club and run regular events, involving ex-players and current players, and most importantly focus more on the JSBs
6 - spend more time promoting the club in the city and in Warwickshire, offering similar promos as Wasps have done (not freebies!) and maybe even getting groups of players (2 or 3 per school) to visit schools in the area to meet the kids, to drum up interest and enthusiasm
7 - cut the ticket prices by a fwe quid to encourage walk-ups
8 - overhaul ticketing further e.g. make it possible to print your tickets at home/work, make it easier to buy tickets at the ticket office or turnstile on the day, even be a UK leader in adopting tech to enable you to either use contactless to pay on the gate, or to show an e-receipt on your device to get into the ground without showing a ticket at all
9 - work with the other parties to get the train station opened, with multiple usable services from Nuneaon and Cov, organise a deal comprising free/cheap parking for rail users and also offer matchday deals involving train travel + ticket for a discounted price
10 - work with Tesco or whoever runs the car park to make it easier for fans to park there, and also work with the council to make it easier to have matchday street parking (possibly by a scheme where fans can pre-pay for, and print their own, CCFC matchday parking permits for maybe £3 per game over the course of a season)
11 - charter free / subsidised coaches (school-bus type) to shuttle fans to and from the ground to the city centre, and ideally paint them sky blue and add some sky blue ribbons or something
12 - appoint a CEO, to whom the Ops Director, Commercial Director and MV will all report - basically someone to run the show and deliver the above. If that means hearing less from Tim Fisher, then fine by me.
1 - cancel the legal cases, to start to repair broken relationships with the other parties
2 - sign up the best long-term lease deal we can get at the Ricoh (possibly with an option for part-ownership in the future) both in terms of rent and access to other revenues
3 - work to see if the academy can stay at the current site with some long term security
3a - if 3 is not possible, re-locate the academy, possibly in conjunction with Warwick Uni or other local stakeholder
4 - invest more in the team, to create an on-field "product" that will enthuse fans again
5 - revive the moribund CCFC supporters club and run regular events, involving ex-players and current players, and most importantly focus more on the JSBs
6 - spend more time promoting the club in the city and in Warwickshire, offering similar promos as Wasps have done (not freebies!) and maybe even getting groups of players (2 or 3 per school) to visit schools in the area to meet the kids, to drum up interest and enthusiasm
7 - cut the ticket prices by a fwe quid to encourage walk-ups
8 - overhaul ticketing further e.g. make it possible to print your tickets at home/work, make it easier to buy tickets at the ticket office or turnstile on the day, even be a UK leader in adopting tech to enable you to either use contactless to pay on the gate, or to show an e-receipt on your device to get into the ground without showing a ticket at all
9 - work with the other parties to get the train station opened, with multiple usable services from Nuneaon and Cov, organise a deal comprising free/cheap parking for rail users and also offer matchday deals involving train travel + ticket for a discounted price
10 - work with Tesco or whoever runs the car park to make it easier for fans to park there, and also work with the council to make it easier to have matchday street parking (possibly by a scheme where fans can pre-pay for, and print their own, CCFC matchday parking permits for maybe £3 per game over the course of a season)
11 - charter free / subsidised coaches (school-bus type) to shuttle fans to and from the ground to the city centre, and ideally paint them sky blue and add some sky blue ribbons or something
12 - appoint a CEO, to whom the Ops Director, Commercial Director and MV will all report - basically someone to run the show and deliver the above. If that means hearing less from Tim Fisher, then fine by me.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
not sure why Wasps need to offer part ownership in fact I would go so far as to say it wont ever happen
They may offer a different share of football generated incomes but why would they, from a Wasps point, of view offer a share of other incomes at the Ricoh without increasing CCFC costs in a different aspect? how does doing that improve Wasps Holdings and increase the value of the security for the bonds
Why cant CCFC put on events at venues throughout the City or even Warwickshire in any case and generate other incomes. What stops them doing it now or in the future? - cash flow
Not sure cancelling the legals, repairs relationships between decision makers. Trust takes ages to build is broken in a second and rarely fully recovers. Only thing that gives CCFC the trust required is probably new owners
The Academy situation is clear, Wasps and the pool are going to be onsite and CCFC will have to pick up what they can at AHC and use a split site approach to keep Cat 2
I do think the club tries hard to connect but are just not good at it and anything positive usually has its legs cut away by bad news from the toxic relationship with Coventry that the owners have largely helped foster. SBITC do a lot of good work promoting the club in community & school projects. Business connections seem to have been soured by Northampton move and coverage of the CCFC saga - these are key to any success now or in future and currently hold us back
much of the above is solved by the availability of hard cash - there is none available. Parking has bwwn franchised by the site owners and out of CCFC control
Rather than appoint a CEO to replace TF and CA isn't the solution to replace SISU - and also the problem
They may offer a different share of football generated incomes but why would they, from a Wasps point, of view offer a share of other incomes at the Ricoh without increasing CCFC costs in a different aspect? how does doing that improve Wasps Holdings and increase the value of the security for the bonds
Why cant CCFC put on events at venues throughout the City or even Warwickshire in any case and generate other incomes. What stops them doing it now or in the future? - cash flow
Not sure cancelling the legals, repairs relationships between decision makers. Trust takes ages to build is broken in a second and rarely fully recovers. Only thing that gives CCFC the trust required is probably new owners
The Academy situation is clear, Wasps and the pool are going to be onsite and CCFC will have to pick up what they can at AHC and use a split site approach to keep Cat 2
I do think the club tries hard to connect but are just not good at it and anything positive usually has its legs cut away by bad news from the toxic relationship with Coventry that the owners have largely helped foster. SBITC do a lot of good work promoting the club in community & school projects. Business connections seem to have been soured by Northampton move and coverage of the CCFC saga - these are key to any success now or in future and currently hold us back
much of the above is solved by the availability of hard cash - there is none available. Parking has bwwn franchised by the site owners and out of CCFC control
Rather than appoint a CEO to replace TF and CA isn't the solution to replace SISU - and also the problem
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Only in the manner that Mr Mutton stated that certain criteria had to happen before he would consider selling to SISU.
Joy Seppalla made a big song and dance about that she had fulfilled her end of the bargain and that he should now do his.
So a staged sale could have ensured this happened.
However good point when SISU finally got the controlling share.
Then the tables turn again and no doubt they would have screwed it up anyway by trying to get the charities half for next to nothing.