Ched Evans (24 Viewers)

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
British justice sinks into the gutter shocker

The reality is that the admission of new witnesses to describe sexual history of a victim makes a mockery of the system completely.

The almost blatent suggestion that these witnesses were also paid to give their evidence makes it beyond any credibility.

The original trial was done with a jury given the evidence as was permitted and making that judgement.

Since then we have had an appeal through in record time, a hugely biased website and blatent intimidation tactics of people who stood in this individuals way.

The ultimate test I guess for what people would really think is if your daughter bought her new boyfriend and proudly introduced Ched Evans

Some on her may find that fine and dandy. Others I suspect may have their reservations.

Not a great day for British justice
Is anyone trying to say he wouldid be a great boyfriend or are they saying he's not a rapist?

The poor day foe the justice system was when they sent a man to jail bas3r on 5h3 fact a girl couldn't remember having sex with him
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Is anyone trying to say he wouldid be a great boyfriend or are they saying he's not a rapist?

The poor day foe the justice system was when they sent a man to jail bas3r on 5h3 fact a girl couldn't remember having sex with him

That's the law. That's the right way to deal with it. I have no sympathy for the loathsome creature
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
A scumbag maybe, at least at that point in time. A rapist though?? It's a completely different level and people like you condemning him the way you did should be ashamed of yourself.

Hadn't he been drinking himself?
I'm pretty he had not been drinking, cba to go and check though
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
I studied this case a lot at university intensively, and it didn't feel right from day one at all.

He's a bad role model no doubt, and his actions were a bit idiotic, but nothing worse than what goes on during uni and Saturday nights across the world.

In fact, it's shit like this that decreases real rape convictions. The 'victim' is less believed and generally the evidence needs to be without proven beyond doubt, (the latter never was for me here) as a result of false claims and the like.

Look at Sweden, highest reported rape in Europe, but also the lowest conviction rapes in Europe. Real victims get hung out to dry thanks to so many false accusations or cowboy cases like this one.
I think the law has to decide what it wants and stick with it. Is taking advantage of a drunk woman whose decision making is compromised considered rape or not, obviously it's a scummy thing to do and no man should do it but the question that needs answering is whether or not it is rape. The law can't have it both ways and change to when it suits.

I think this case is a bit different to the argument that this stuff happens all the time on weekends at nightclubs, it wasn't the case of two drunk people meet in a public place and decide to go home together have a bit of fun.

If a person goes to a hotel room with the intention of having sex with a drunk woman hes never met or even spoken to before, he's definitely on dodgy grounds and at the very least worth investigating further.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
1) because he was found innocent doesn't mean he didn't do it, it just means he can't be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
a) he didn't rape her
b) she falsely accused him
c) she wasnt and still isn't a victim in all of this.

2) Yes his life as been ruined, but so has hers - she's had to go through all this ordeal too, she's been abused, harrased, etc

3) it sits really uncomfortable for me that someone's previous sex life has been allowed in this case. Its now going to be used as a test case as a defense against every rape victim. Just because someone does something with one partner doesn't mean she is therefore always game and can't be raped

4) I'm extremely uncomfortable with the fact Evans is paying witnesses.

5) I'm fucking disgusted with one or two on here already vilifying the girl. The police and CPS have made the decision that they believed and had evidence to suggest she was raped. It doesn't mean she is a lier and doesn't deserved to be called so.

I'll leave it as that.

Even with this verdict I wouldn't want the twat near our club.



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It's a difficult one isn't it, but at the back of my mind (And I am not talking about this case), if there were a rape allegation, but the girl had a history of being 'free and easy' with her body, that MAY have some relevance mightn't it?

It's an eggshell thing for sure and there is no definitive answer, but I can see that in some cases that someone's sexual past might just hold some relevance.

It's not about how many partners someone has had, but how they have behaved previously may just may be relevant.

As I say, it's not at all black and white and it could set a dangerous precedence if a carte blanche is allowed for all cases.
 
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clint van damme

Well-Known Member
British justice sinks into the gutter shocker

The reality is that the admission of new witnesses to describe sexual history of a victim makes a mockery of the system completely.

The almost blatent suggestion that these witnesses were also paid to give their evidence makes it beyond any credibility.

The original trial was done with a jury given the evidence as was permitted and making that judgement.

Since then we have had an appeal through in record time, a hugely biased website and blatent intimidation tactics of people who stood in this individuals way.

The ultimate test I guess for what people would really think is if your daughter bought her new boyfriend and proudly introduced Ched Evans

Some on her may find that fine and dandy. Others I suspect may have their reservations.

Not a great day for British justice
it's been there for a long time to be honest.
 

Gazolba

Well-Known Member
"Not guilty" does not mean you didn't do it. It just means they couldn't prove you did it.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
"Not guilty" does not mean you didn't do it. It just means they couldn't prove you did it.
True. This one is slightly different though as he was convicted and then they said the conviction was unsafe and new evidence has been brought forwards.

The whole thing is a sorry mess.

Guessing now though that Evans might seek compensation for his incarceration.

Could drag on a while longer yet.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
It's a difficult one isn't it, but at the back of my mind (And I am not talking about this case), if there were a rape allegation, but the girl had a history of being 'free and easy' with her body, that MAY have some relevance mightn't it?

No, a girl can be a massive slag and still be raped. More relevant would be if she, for example, has a record of false allegations or of doing kiss and tell or something, otherwise I don't see how her sexual history is relevant.

That said, this case has never sat right with me. Her story is dodgy and I don't buy the "you can't consent when drunk" line simply because there's so many degrees of intoxication. "Drunk" is a fuzzy concept and shouldn't be used to make these kind of decisions. Personally, despite drinking inordinate amounts at times, I've never blacked out, lost time or not had control, that's just how I am. Some people need two pints and they're a different person. Expecting a third party to be able to accurately judge how in control someone is is unfair IMO. A person who physically can't consent due to being paralytic is one thing, a person who is capable of taking part in a conversation reliably can IMO.

Most of all the law and society in general (as that is who the law is supposed to serve) needs to work out the answers to these questions because the worst thing at the moment is different people have very different views of consent and sexual assault. Ranging from ideas that would literally halve the birthrate if implemented to Trumpesque pussying grabbing is just a bit of banter. Sadly, the two extremes seem to be the ones interested in having the debate.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
True. This one is slightly different though as he was convicted and then they said the conviction was unsafe and new evidence has been brought forwards.

The whole thing is a sorry mess.

Guessing now though that Evans might seek compensation for his incarceration.

Could drag on a while longer yet.
The new evidence was someone changing what he had previously said. And this is after a 50k offer if someone could help Evans get a not guilty verdict. This does not sit well with me at all.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
The new evidence was someone changing what he had previously said. And this is after a 50k offer if someone could help Evans get a not guilty verdict. This does not sit well with me at all.

It doesn't me either but... I have to agree that the same as guilty should be accepted, so should not guilty.

So he's not guilty.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
No, a girl can be a massive slag and still be raped. More relevant would be if she, for example, has a record of false allegations or of doing kiss and tell or something, otherwise I don't see how her sexual history is relevant.

Which is what I was kind of hinting at.

Judge allowed the two blokes' testimony, so I do wonder if that was the way the case was heading.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Giving someone 50 grand who is part of a court case against you can't be legal surely? And should the prosecuting lawyer be asking why the person who has been paid has suddenly changed their story?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
The new evidence was someone changing what he had previously said. And this is after a 50k offer if someone could help Evans get a not guilty verdict. This does not sit well with me at all.
For balance though, Astute, the girl hasn't been solid with her testimony and account either. And then of course there was the talk of her planning to buy a new mini as a result of the trial and her story.

It is not black and white at all.

I don't think this is a straight forward case. He was found guilty, but then appealed and only 5% of cases are accepted for appeal. Appeal was then granted and the conviction then quoshed and now proven not guilty.

I am sure the new evidence was not just two blokes' 'changing their stories.'

Cannot believe for a second an appeal would have been granted just on that basis.
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
1) because he was found innocent doesn't mean he didn't do it, it just means he can't be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
a) he didn't rape her
b) she falsely accused him
c) she wasnt and still isn't a victim in all of this.

2) Yes his life as been ruined, but so has hers - she's had to go through all this ordeal too, she's been abused, harrased, etc

3) it sits really uncomfortable for me that someone's previous sex life has been allowed in this case. Its now going to be used as a test case as a defense against every rape victim. Just because someone does something with one partner doesn't mean she is therefore always game and can't be raped

4) I'm extremely uncomfortable with the fact Evans is paying witnesses.

5) I'm fucking disgusted with one or two on here already vilifying the girl. The police and CPS have made the decision that they believed and had evidence to suggest she was raped. It doesn't mean she is a lier and doesn't deserved to be called so.

I'll leave it as that.

Even with this verdict I wouldn't want the twat near our club.



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I agree with every word of that, but... will those who indulged in some very black and white thinking on this subject not so long ago now accept that he is ''innocent'' no matter what their opinion may be of him as a person?
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
No, not guilty has to mean not guilty. I don't want to live under a justice system of trial by rumour thanks.

You've made analogies in the past about sisu and "battered wives syndrome" haven't you?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
For balance though, Astute, the girl hasn't been solid with her testimony and account either. And then of course there was the talk of her planning to buy a new mini as a result of the trial and her story.

It is not black and white at all.

I don't think this is a straight forward case. He was found guilty, but then appealed and only 5% of cases are accepted for appeal. Appeal was then granted and the conviction then quoshed and now proven not guilty.

I am sure the new evidence was not just two blokes' 'changing their stories.'

Cannot believe for a second an appeal would have been granted just on that basis.

The appeal was based on a very unusual allowance of former sexual partners gibing evidence - people paid by the Evans team.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I agree with every word of that, but... will those who indulged in some very black and white thinking on this subject not so long ago now accept that he is ''innocent'' no matter what their opinion may be of him as a person?

No I believe he raped her.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I wonder where this takes him in respect to football?
Well he's playing anyway, so not a lot, unless a more high profile club wishes to take a punt on him.

I still wouldn't want him here, but now he has been found not guilty I am sure a lot of clubs will now be taking an interest in the bloke.
 

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