Will Wasps aquiring the Ricoh damage CCFC? (6 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

honestly Tony I give up - either you are wumming or really ignorant on how contracts work - I'm done on this one.

Depends on the details of the contract doesn't it? Have you seen the West Ham contract like you seem to think I should have? Just so you know NW has provided the link to why you haven't. That probably explains why you're out. It's a bit hard to give out assumed facts, made up facts and spurious facts given you've just been cut off before you start.

 

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[skybluetony176]

The contract is online and public isn't it?

Do you have a link?

Look at me gone all Grendull

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

I see Italia has voted anonymously

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Has Tony gone a bit mad here? Northern wisdom posted a link which says the freedom of interest request for full disclosure on the west ham Olympic deal was SUCCESSFUL and must be made public.

Apparently this revealing of the contract explains why Tony hasn't yet seen the details and doesn't explain why Grendel thinks he knows the details.

 

[Nick]

Here I think:


https://oscoalition.wordpress.com/2016/04/14/olympic-stadium-agreement-released/

Failing that, try https://web.archive.org/web/2016041...uk/~/media/lldc/concession agreement 2016.pdf

 

[Grendel]

The contract is online and public isn't it?

Why bother. A remainer who voted UKIP a protester who doesn't March and a constant thread divertor - he's beyond embarrassing.

 

[skybluetony176]

Has Tony gone a bit mad here? Northern wisodm posted a link which says the freedom of interest request for full disclosure on the west ham Olympic deal was SUCCESSFUL and must be made public.

Apparently this revealing of the contract explains why Tony hasn't yet seen the details and doesn't explain why Grendel thinks he knows the details.

No. I just didn't read it through. Last I heard it wasn't being released. Stand corrected.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

No. I just didn't read it through. Last I heard it wasn't being released. Stand corrected.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160417201001/http://queenelizabetholympicpark.co.uk/~/media/lldc/concession agreement 2016.pdf

Enjoy

 

[Nick]

https://web.archive.org/web/20160417201001/http://queenelizabetholympicpark.co.uk/~/media/lldc/concession agreement 2016.pdf

Enjoy

I bet you found the link was dead too and archived it

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

No. I just didn't read it through. Last I heard it wasn't being released. Stand corrected.

Ok, the article nw posted was in black and white saying it had to be released and you just just kept blabbering on as if this link proved it wasn't being released and how this shows no one knew the details. Should have read the article instead of just always assuming you know better.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I bet you found the link was dead too and archived it

It might give him some space from Grendel for a bit as he reads it; think their love affair needs a bit of a gap so it can blossom properly.

 

[albatross]

This debate about owning your own ground to me is largely irrelevant at this point. If we want to own a stadium it will have to be paid for somehow. If CCFC or the SISU equivalent of ACL has to raise say £30million to purchase land and construct a modest stadium and agreed to pay it back over say 25Yrs at an interest rate of say 3.5% the monthly repayments on that alone are £134,585. That is a lot of of money that has to be paid out before a penny is used to operate the facility and put on matches. So if CCFC or the SISU ACL charge us to use the ground that is likely to be at least the mortgage £1,615,020 plus say £500k to run it thats £2.1m before a player or academy is considered.

Please do not forget that ACL was purchased for £6.5m with WASPS then further settling a £14m Mortgage with money that was raised via their bonds. So where would we get the cash to do this given our current owners position that the club has to be self sufficient.

So lets consider where we are today. We pay £100k per annum to ACL to play there. We then make about £75k with our cut of the F&B. So as it stands it could be argued that we are about £2.1m per annum better off given the alternative route of a new ground. This actually provides a pretty stable environment for the club to operate. The destabilising actions come from our owners and the debt and charges and lack of investment

On this board there was some posts regarding Walsall breaking even etc... and using the car park for car boots , well that model won't get us far. Running at break even will not improve our situation. If that is the ambition that we have then we will remain in League one or worse.

I believe that the future of Coventry City will be solely determined by the performance on the Pitch. Win and people will come, fail and people will stay away. for the foreseeable future ticket sales will be the biggest income to the club at this level. Getting 31,000 to regional final of the JPT showed what potential the club has. Irrespective of wether you are for or against WASPS being here, the pull of CCFC in wth city and immediate surrounding area is greater. That will always be the case. WASPS appeal is from Warwickshire and beyond so not your CCFC fan that people rant on about. CCFC face more competition from XBOX and Playstation than from WASPS.

If we are successful on the field the earning potential in the Championship is greater but then too are the costs. Likewise for the Premier league If we negotiate a sensible deal with ACL which operates on a sliding scale depending on what division we are in, which can also be a sensible way of mapping our future with known expenses. If our rent went up to £2m and we are in the premier league that would represent about 2% of the Income from just the TV rights, without taking into account any sponsorship, ticket or merchandising. 365 revenue from the ground barely registers at this point. In order to keep todays rent at a level where we can compete and progress we have to offer some "jam" tomorrow.

If the club has to be a selling club just to stay afloat at a net £25k stadium rental what is the prospect of being able to build our own? this is a hand to mouth existence not inflicted by others but by those responsible for running the club.

Please don't say SISU Took on the debts of the previous regime as they didn't , Others took the hit to give them a chance, they even screwed the previous director for about £300k because they stood as guarantors for the Rent!

 

[Sick Boy]

I still think that with different owners, WASPS will be prepared to sell 50%

Why?!

 

[Samo]

Who has voted no? Do you have a special ass numbing spray so you can't tell when you are being fucked?

 

[Nick]

This debate about owning your own ground to me is largely irrelevant at this point. If we want to own a stadium it will have to be paid for somehow. If CCFC or the SISU equivalent of ACL has to raise say £30million to purchase land and construct a modest stadium and agreed to pay it back over say 25Yrs at an interest rate of say 3.5% the monthly repayments on that alone are £134,585. That is a lot of of money that has to be paid out before a penny is used to operate the facility and put on matches. So if CCFC or the SISU ACL charge us to use the ground that is likely to be at least the mortgage £1,615,020 plus say £500k to run it thats £2.1m before a player or academy is considered.

Please do not forget that ACL was purchased for £6.5m with WASPS then further settling a £14m Mortgage with money that was raised via their bonds. So where would we get the cash to do this given our current owners position that the club has to be self sufficient.

So lets consider where we are today. We pay £100k per annum to ACL to play there. We then make about £75k with our cut of the F&B. So as it stands it could be argued that we are about £2.1m per annum better off given the alternative route of a new ground. This actually provides a pretty stable environment for the club to operate. The destabilising actions come from our owners and the debt and charges and lack of investment

On this board there was some posts regarding Walsall breaking even etc... and using the car park for car boots , well that model won't get us far. Running at break even will not improve our situation. If that is the ambition that we have then we will remain in League one or worse.

I believe that the future of Coventry City will be solely determined by the performance on the Pitch. Win and people will come, fail and people will stay away. for the foreseeable future ticket sales will be the biggest income to the club at this level. Getting 31,000 to regional final of the JPT showed what potential the club has. Irrespective of wether you are for or against WASPS being here, the pull of CCFC in wth city and immediate surrounding area is greater. That will always be the case. WASPS appeal is from Warwickshire and beyond so not your CCFC fan that people rant on about. CCFC face more competition from XBOX and Playstation than from WASPS.

If we are successful on the field the earning potential in the Championship is greater but then too are the costs. Likewise for the Premier league If we negotiate a sensible deal with ACL which operates on a sliding scale depending on what division we are in, which can also be a sensible way of mapping our future with known expenses. If our rent went up to £2m and we are in the premier league that would represent about 2% of the Income from just the TV rights, without taking into account any sponsorship, ticket or merchandising. 365 revenue from the ground barely registers at this point. In order to keep todays rent at a level where we can compete and progress we have to offer some "jam" tomorrow.

If the club has to be a selling club just to stay afloat at a net £25k stadium rental what is the prospect of being able to build our own? this is a hand to mouth existence not inflicted by others but by those responsible for running the club.

Please don't say SISU Took on the debts of the previous regime as they didn't , Others took the hit to give them a chance, they even screwed the previous director for about £300k because they stood as guarantors for the Rent!

Have you factored in things like Matchday costs when working out the rent and it being £25k a year?

Didn't the Wasps guy once say about 90% of tickets were from CV? (Granted, CV also covers Nuneaton, bedworth and other parts in Warwickshire).

 

[RegTheDonk]

So do you think that if we had not left the Ricoh, and paid our rent like obedient tenants that CCC would have courted a purchaser for ACL.. assuming a deal couldn't be done between CCFC and the council?

I'll chip in Ian as nobody else has. No, I think CCC would have been happy to still have us as a tenant under their terms. I dare say they would have been happy under the reduced terms that the infamous handshake laid the groundwork for, which TF seemed to think was a solution. This would probably have led to SISU getting the Higgs share at a price both parties would have settled for. I think that CCC would have been rightly slaughtered if they had done a deal with WASPs if the above agreement had been in force. If something was already in the pipeline as suggested, then mMoving to Northampton, the legal battles, the "we're still building our own stadium"...SISU played right into their hands.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Who has voted no? Do you have a special ass numbing spray so you can't tell when you are being fucked?

Thing is, you can still wholeheartedly blame SISU 110% for it all if you like, but the question is surely still an unequivocal yes?!?

In what way does Wasps owning the stadium *help* CCFC?!?

 

[albatross]

Have you factored in things like Matchday costs when working out the rent and it being £25k a year?

Didn't the Wasps guy once say about 90% of tickets were from CV? (Granted, CV also covers Nuneaton, bedworth and other parts in Warwickshire).

No as we would be liable for them if we rent or own or played elsewhere so they are part of the clubs running costs

 

[stupot07]

Have you factored in things like Matchday costs when working out the rent and it being £25k a year?

Didn't the Wasps guy once say about 90% of tickets were from CV? (Granted, CV also covers Nuneaton, bedworth and other parts in Warwickshire).

No he's added £500k to run it on owning but not added on the £12k per game (£313k for the 26 games this season) matchday costs we pay, not factored in we only get 50% of profit from f&bs, not factored in that with compass contract thr % profit is very poor (11%), not factored in office / shop rental, etc, not factored in stadium sponsorship, CSR parking, controlling costings (e.g f&b's, cleaning contracts, hospitality), stand sponsorship, car parking (was it £4k we got last season? What's that £173 per match? 22p per car per match based on 800 spaces), sponship and advertising around the inside and outside the ground (look at the likes of Cardiff, Newcastle, its all over thr shop), then you've got non matchday revenues ( conferences, car boots, meetings, weddings, etc). Then factor in having an asset on the balance sheet. Then factor in its very unlikely the rent will be as low as £100k pa again. Then factor in identify and having a home. I bet its nowhere near £2.1m better off.

It ain't gonna happen anyway, but its not as easy as just saying "£1.6m mortgage + £500k running costs" as we have no idea how the funding could be structured and people always focus on pies and not all the other potential income generating possibilities, nor the fact that any prospective owner is more likely to be willing to part with their cash if there are assets and infrastructure in place, which you don't get with renting 23-26 days per annum with little income generating potential.

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[albatross]

No he's added £500k to run it on owning but not added on the £12k per game (£313k for the 26 games this season) matchday costs we pay, not factored in we only get 50% of profit from f&bs, not factored in that with compass contract thr % profit is very poor (11%), not factored in office / shop rental, etc, not factored in stadium sponsorship, CSR parking, controlling costings (e.g f&b's, cleaning contracts, hospitality), stand sponsorship, car parking (was it £4k we got last season? What's that £173 per match? 22p per car per match based on 800 spaces), sponship and advertising around the inside and outside the ground (look at the likes of Cardiff, Newcastle, its all over thr shop), then you've got non matchday revenues ( conferences, car boots, meetings, weddings, etc). Then factor in having an asset on the balance sheet. Then factor in its very unlikely the rent will be as low as £100k pa again. Then factor in identify and having a home. I bet its nowhere near £2.1m better off.

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To gain all those benefits cost, you seem to imply they come for free. The 2.1 mil was simply an illustration of the financial burden building our own stadium would put on our money out column

Nothing stopping the club from purchasing any or all of those options on a match day or any day and selling them on at a profit.

Ownership costs big time

 

[stupot07]

Deleted.

 

[stupot07]

To gain all those benefits cost, you seem to imply they come for free. The 2.1 mil was simply an illustration of the financial burden building our own stadium would put on our money out column

Nothing stopping the club from purchasing any or all of those options on a match day or any day and selling them on at a profit.

Ownership costs big time

Of course there is, wasps and their existing contracts.

I never implied they were free, just balancing out that we would be £2.1m better off renting at the Ricoh. We have no idea, as we have no seen any financial business case (mainly because they won't be building a stadium)

There will be no new stadium, we know that but fuck all is going to change renting match day on with little/no access to additional matchday and 365 day revenues - every football expert has backed this up including one of our own supporters who owns a league one football club. Only 1 other club rents off a rugby club in a situation similar to ours - that's Stockport.

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[Kingokings204]

To gain all those benefits cost, you seem to imply they come for free. The 2.1 mil was simply an illustration of the financial burden building our own stadium would put on our money out column

Nothing stopping the club from purchasing any or all of those options on a match day or any day and selling them on at a profit.

Ownership costs big time

I've never under stood this also. Currently at 4 years rent of 100k a year is a steal for our club. Factor in we don't have any staff any upkeep and management costs just some matchday costs which benefit us to have on a match day. I think it's a great deal. Whether we get it again is another question but at the moment for our business model 100k a year works great doesn't it?

It's a bit like renting a 500k house for £150 a month. Yes I would rather own it as I have a 500k asset but I have extremely cheap rent and I can leave whenever I want as I'm not tied in. Meaning options are open.

 

[torchomatic]

Thing is, you can still wholeheartedly blame SISU 110% for it all if you like, but the question is surely still an unequivocal yes?!?

In what way does Wasps owning the stadium *help* CCFC?!?

Absolutely. It really doesn't make any sense does it? Makes me question their motives.

 

[Kingokings204]

Absolutely. It really doesn't make any sense does it? Makes me question their motives.

It's opinion. Everyone has their own motive. I've seen enough sisu defending on here. Not that people are sisu fans per se it's just they can't separate the owners and the club mainly.

Obviously wasps owning the Ricoh hasn't benefited ccfc but only one poster has voted otherwise. Not really a lot of posters with an agenda as you say.

Edit- Sorry 3 voters now.

 

[albatross]

Of course there is, wasps and their existing contracts.

I never implied they were free, just balancing out that we would be £2.1m better off renting at the Ricoh. We have no idea, as we have no seen any financial business case (mainly because they won't be building a stadium)

There will be no new stadium, we know that but fuck all is going to change renting match day on with little/no access to additional matchday and 365 day revenues - every football expert has backed this up including one of our own supporters who owns a league one football club. Only 1 other club rents off a rugby club in a situation similar to ours - that's Stockport.

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I largely agree with you but nobody has quantified the benefit of the 365 revenue model. Sure I accept it means more money in the door but it has to be offset against the cost of the benefit which SISU continually

 

[chiefdave]

No as we would be liable for them if we rent or own or played elsewhere so they are part of the clubs running costs

So, for example, if we owned our own stadium we'd have to pay for the car parking spaces required for media and players? And we'd have to pay for hospitality catering at full market price and based on a sell out no matter how many were sold?

 

[I was eleven in 87]

I was one of the ones who voted no.
However this was because my fat finger pressed the wrong button, sorry!!

 

[Sky Blue 1987]

Simple question....Grendel, skybluetony, torch etc....do any of you have an affiliation with SISU, CCFC, WASPS, CCC, ACL etc?

 

[kmj5000]

No. Because, having identified a site in the Coventry area, SISU have stated that they are going to build us a new stadium and academy!?

Seriously though, it was the initial decision to move out that caused the damage to CCFC and set off the sequence of events that lead to Wasps buying the stadium.

If Wasps hadn't bought the stadium, we would still be tenants at best because the council wouldn't give SISU what they wanted - The Ricoh for next to nothing - and SISU would still be telling everyone that they Intend to build a stadium.

 

[Astute]

Simple question....Grendel, skybluetony, torch etc....do any of you have an affiliation with SISU, CCFC, WASPS, CCC, ACL etc?

I want what is best for CCFC. End of.

I also don't like it when people try changing the history of what has happened. Richardson started our downfall. And it has been shit ever since. Yes we have had some good times. But the future of our club has been in doubt for a lot of years. And each lot that have taken over our club has had to work with what they have been left with. That is why we can't blame SISU for everything. If their plan had worked we could have been in our best position for years. But like most people I never saw much of a chance of it happening.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Depends on the details of the contract doesn't it? Have you seen the West Ham contract like you seem to think I should have? Just so you know NW has provided the link to why you haven't. That probably explains why you're out. It's a bit hard to give out assumed facts, made up facts and spurious facts given you've just been cut off before you start.

Don't be harsh Tony... He's the King of facts

 

[Nick]

Don't be harsh Tony... He's the King of facts

Now you have gone wading in without reading the whole thread.

 

[hill83]

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Now you have gone wading in without reading the whole thread.

Says the King of CBA to read.