Wasps finances 2016 (13 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Interesting the comments about the impact of the Rugby World Cup......the Leicester accounts suggested that they recognised that the RWC always has an impact on attendances / earnings. Why didn't Wasps recognise this?

 

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[fernandopartridge]

• Ricoh Naming Rights deal remained in place throughout the 2015/16 financial year. Several conversations still ongoing but no partner at contract stage yet

 

[Moff]

When Wasps buy us, it will be just the name and all Sisu's fault. They won't buy it yet.

I am genuinely interested in your reasoning on this (as I just cant see it) in that presuming the name was available, why would they buy it? and what would they then do with it?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I am genuinely interested in your reasoning

First time for everything I guess.

 

[Moff]

First time for everything I guess.

I just cant fathom why he would think that so I suppose I thought I would just ask the question

 

[italiahorse]

I am genuinely interested in your reasoning on this (as I just cant see it) in that presuming the name was available, why would they buy it? and what would they then do with it?

They have all the facilities we require, economies of scale and cheap to obtain.
Would they be in a position to finance a push to the PL I don't expect so for a few years but they will have a honeymoon period after the Sisu mess and the new found fans sense of belonging.

 

[Captain Dart]

one thought I forgot to share

These results do not point to any great compromises available on income streams to keep CCFC at the Ricoh. In fact it may have helped CCFC if the Wasps results had been better because all events at the Ricoh will at worst have to breakeven that includes CCFC to ensure the bottom line improves. What will keep them there is that there is no real alternative anytime soon for CCFC. Just my opinion but CCFC are still between a big rock and a very hard place with no quick solutions

So no doubt the rent will go up.

 

[Nick]

Observer Summary - https://coventryobserver.co.uk/news...losses-and-rising-43m-debt-new-accounts-show/

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Coventry Observer

@covobservernews

REVEALED: Wasps report £3.8m losses and rising £43m debt, new accounts show -

REVEALED: Wasps report £3.8m losses and rising £43m debt, new accounts show

Ricoh Arena owner Wasps has recorded a group operating loss of £3. 8million with rising debts... more

coventryobserver.co.uk

Not sure if this is old news those operating losses look quite poor



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[stupot07]

They have all the facilities we require, economies of scale and cheap to obtain.
Would they be in a position to finance a push to the PL I don't expect so for a few years but they will have a honeymoon period after the Sisu mess and the new found fans sense of belonging.

Lol

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Ian1779]

they will have a honeymoon period after the Sisu mess and the new found fans sense of belonging.

When you say sense of belonging do you mean to another community about 80 miles away?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I always say the argument is won when insults start.

I think people are bored and have long since realised that a reasonable discussion with you is impossible.

I'd much rather just call you a Wasps wanker now than waste my time using reason and logic which would be wasted on you. You call that a victory for yourself while everyone else just carries on thinking you are a simple fool.

 

[clint van damme]

I think people are bored and have long since realised that a reasonable discussion with you is impossible.

I'd much rather just call you a Wasps wanker now than waste my time using reason and logic which would be wasted on you. You call that a victory for yourself while everyone else just carries on thinking you are a simple fool.

 

[chiefdave]

Of course I'm not an accountant, I might ask mine to take a look and see what he thinks.

Got my accountant to take a look and his response was 'more cause for concern than celebration' - he's London based and not a fan of CCFC or Wasps for what its worth.

Few points he raised:
attendance up 48% but ticket revenues only up by 19%, potential indicator of excessive number of free or cheap tickets not leading to paid ticket sales;
f&b spend for rugby seems low given pitch side drinking is allowed and the stadium is often open for several hours before and after games;
no clear identification of how improvements will be made and how will they increase the revenue to the level required;
everything being paid for either via increased debt or sponsorship, queried if this was because Wasps don't have the finance themselves;
ebitda currently compared to covenants of the bond, he lost me at this point to be honest but it seemed to be basically that the bonds have guarantees of how the business will perform and there will need to be an improvement to achieve that. apparently failing on any one of those would not be a minor issue.
in the longer term how will the bonds be repaid if 7 figure losses continue. I mentioned taking out another bond and he said that was like getting a new credit card as you can't pay the bill from your old one, the cost of borrowing increases and your overall debt goes up until you reach a point where you can't get another new card. also mentioned there being no guarantee what state the economy will be in if and when they need to refinance, potentially a higher interest rate may need to be offered.

Asked him what he would think if he was SISU's accountant and what he'd be advising and he said not to enter into any long term deals. That the accounts indicate its not a foregone conclusion the project will ultimately be a success so he would advise them not to enter into any agreements which could benefit Wasps in anything less than the immediate future.

 

[skybluebeduff]

 

[oldfiver]

Got my accountant to take a look and his response was 'more cause for concern than celebration' - he's London based and not a fan of CCFC or Wasps for what its worth.

Few points he raised:
attendance up 48% but ticket revenues only up by 19%, potential indicator of excessive number of free or cheap tickets not leading to paid ticket sales;
f&b spend for rugby seems low given pitch side drinking is allowed and the stadium is often open for several hours before and after games;
no clear identification of how improvements will be made and how will they increase the revenue to the level required;
everything being paid for either via increased debt or sponsorship, queried if this was because Wasps don't have the finance themselves;
ebitda currently compared to covenants of the bond, he lost me at this point to be honest but it seemed to be basically that the bonds have guarantees of how the business will perform and there will need to be an improvement to achieve that. apparently failing on any one of those would not be a minor issue.
in the longer term how will the bonds be repaid if 7 figure losses continue. I mentioned taking out another bond and he said that was like getting a new credit card as you can't pay the bill from your old one, the cost of borrowing increases and your overall debt goes up until you reach a point where you can't get another new card. also mentioned there being no guarantee what state the economy will be in if and when they need to refinance, potentially a higher interest rate may need to be offered.

Asked him what he would think if he was SISU's accountant and what he'd be advising and he said not to enter into any long term deals. That the accounts indicate its not a foregone conclusion the project will ultimately be a success so he would advise them not to enter into any agreements which could benefit Wasps in anything less than the immediate future.

Allegedly, there is also a large repair & maintenance deficit building up. The stadium is now over 11 years old and some of the M&E is in need of attention

 

[chiefdave]

Allegedly, there is also a large repair & maintenance deficit building up. The stadium is now over 11 years old and some of the M&E is in need of attention

Wouldn't be surprised. ACL under council and higgs seemed pretty slack at most things, probably just did the minimum to keep it ticking over.

Wasps will probably try and get Wickes to sponsor the repairs

 

[italiahorse]

I think people are bored and have long since realised that a reasonable discussion with you is impossible.

I'd much rather just call you a Wasps wanker now than waste my time using reason and logic which would be wasted on you. You call that a victory for yourself while everyone else just carries on thinking you are a simple fool.

Thats because Sisu have no logic and reason.
No plan and a vain hope that Wasps fail and Sisu continue 'the plan'
Good luck with that one.

 

[clint van damme]

Thats because Sisu have no logic and reason.
No plan and a vain hope that Wasps fail and Sisu continue 'the plan'
Good luck with that one.

100% agree. But wasps are still wankers.

 

[italiahorse]

100% agree. But wasps are still wankers.

Especially at picnics

 

[Nick]

Looks like the telegraph have glossed over it a bit now.

 

[oldfiver]

It will need a lot of Ronseal

 

[olderskyblue]

For what it's worth, I spoke to an old mate earlier this week. He now goes to Wasps matches, and pays, after getting free tickets to start with. His 30yr old son is also a regular now. He took his daughter along a few times when his son couldn't make it. She is now a paying regular. She had never been to a Rugby match before this, but is now hooked.

Their plan is clearly working with some people.

 

[oldfiver]

My neice is a local teacher and had a handful of free tickets for the last game and said she could get more if wanted. Wonder why people pay?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Their plan is clearly working with some people.

It'll naturally always work with some, the question is going to be how many.

Of course longer term the issue is whether you capture those people fully, or whether they move onto the next leisure experience.

 

[olderskyblue]

It'll naturally always work with some, the question is going to be how many.

Of course longer term the issue is whether you capture those people fully, or whether they move onto the next leisure experience.

Well, all three now have season tickets...

Slightly worrying is that he used to bring his daughter to CCFC matches when his son couldn't make it, but she never wanted to be a regular. The fact she got hooked after just a few matches is something that puzzles me.

As you say, the "how many" is the important question really

 

[Nick]

A lot of it is bandwagon, the people I know who have been are people using freebies. Same people who were there when we played crewe, gillingham and chelsea and still ask why I bother going. Until there is a sniff of a cup drawer, that is.

Edit: Of course, there are actual rugby fans there who go for the sport. The people I know had never been to a Rugby match before and the first thing they point out is that you can drink at the seat!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Slightly worrying is that he used to bring his daughter to CCFC matches when his son couldn't make it, but she never wanted to be a regular.

Can't imagine why(!)

 

[olderskyblue]

A lot of it is bandwagon, the people I know who have been are people using freebies. Same people who were there when we played crewe, gillingham and chelsea and still ask why I bother going. Until there is a sniff of a cup drawer, that is.

Edit: Of course, there are actual rugby fans there who go for the sport. The people I know had never been to a Rugby match before and the first thing they point out is that you can drink at the seat!

Bandwagon? Maybe right, but clearly the "experience" keeps some of them too... It's back to NW's question of "how many?" Time will tell I guess.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Got my accountant to take a look and his response was 'more cause for concern than celebration' - he's London based and not a fan of CCFC or Wasps for what its worth.

Few points he raised:
attendance up 48% but ticket revenues only up by 19%, potential indicator of excessive number of free or cheap tickets not leading to paid ticket sales;
f&b spend for rugby seems low given pitch side drinking is allowed and the stadium is often open for several hours before and after games;
no clear identification of how improvements will be made and how will they increase the revenue to the level required;
everything being paid for either via increased debt or sponsorship, queried if this was because Wasps don't have the finance themselves;
ebitda currently compared to covenants of the bond, he lost me at this point to be honest but it seemed to be basically that the bonds have guarantees of how the business will perform and there will need to be an improvement to achieve that. apparently failing on any one of those would not be a minor issue.
in the longer term how will the bonds be repaid if 7 figure losses continue. I mentioned taking out another bond and he said that was like getting a new credit card as you can't pay the bill from your old one, the cost of borrowing increases and your overall debt goes up until you reach a point where you can't get another new card. also mentioned there being no guarantee what state the economy will be in if and when they need to refinance, potentially a higher interest rate may need to be offered.

Asked him what he would think if he was SISU's accountant and what he'd be advising and he said not to enter into any long term deals. That the accounts indicate its not a foregone conclusion the project will ultimately be a success so he would advise them not to enter into any agreements which could benefit Wasps in anything less than the immediate future.

I think he raises some good points CD

Ticket incomes. There is no split in the 2016 financials but in 2015 accounts ticket sales were 12% of Turnover or 2.57m if they have increased by 19% that puts the 2016 figure at just over 3m. So someone is buying them. In 2015 CCFC ticket sales were 1.8m

Some of the discrepancy between numbers and income on ticket sales could perhaps be covered by the age differences for ticket sales. If for example there are a lot of concessionary rates for youngsters then numbers could increase by a different rate to income. If the numbers growth is in the youngsters, and comments in the report indicate they are a sales target, then that is something CCFC have to be concerned about, we need to dominate the take up of young supporters

Think it points to the current financial year being very important for the Wasps business

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Bandwagon? Maybe right, but clearly the "experience" keeps some of them too... It's back to NW's question of "how many?" Time will tell I guess.

It's what we've been slow to react to, the lemming-like theory. A bustling stadium makes you more likely to go back as you get the sense of it being a social event where there's a buzz (pun not intended!). When we play it's a bit cavernous and empty.

(FWIW also an argument for a lower capacity, but this ain't the thread for that!)

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Think it points to the current financial year being very important for the Wasps business

My friend also pointed out some of their recent high profile salaries won't show in these accounts either, so expect costs to rise in that area at least, come the next set.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Question - what is the basis of ownership of the London training ground? are Wasps retaining it and if not is it a saleable asset?

 

[oldskyblue58]

My friend also pointed out some of their recent high profile salaries won't show in these accounts either, so expect costs to rise in that area at least, come the next set.

True but they also lost a few in the summer - but I agree I see that cost as increasing

 

[olderskyblue]

It's what we've been slow to react to, the lemming-like theory. A bustling stadium makes you more likely to go back as you get the sense of it being a social event where there's a buzz (pun not intended!). When we play it's a bit cavernous and empty.

(FWIW also an argument for a lower capacity, but this ain't the thread for that!)

Although, we have had bustling stadium days, and people didn't come back... Maybe "successful bustling stadium days" is more appropriate? Even so, the "experience" is something many have said before should be improved at CCFC matches, but others shoot it down and say all they want to see is the sky blues..