Brexit/SISU (13 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

The EU is a joke and is getting worse. Ànd most of them moaning on here seem to live in other countries or have a partner from the EU

You mean a whole TWO of us? And so what? We have just as much right to voice an opinion than those who don't.

There is more of chance of the UK falling apart and the pound crashing than the EU and the Euro doing the same.

The EU also enabled Britain to go from the sick man of Europe to the world''s 5th largest economy and secure peace on the continent, what a fucking joke!

 

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[Astute]

The EU also enabled Britain to go from the sick man of Europe to the world''s 5th largest economy and secure peace on the continent, what a fucking joke!

Sick man of Europe?

You either don't have a clue or are taking the piss.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

You mean a whole TWO of us? And so what? We have just as much right to voice an opinion than those who don't.

There is more of chance of the UK falling apart and the pound crashing than the EU and the Euro doing the same.

The EU also enabled Britain to go from the sick man of Europe to the world''s 5th largest economy and secure peace on the continent, what a fucking joke!

Once again I feel I have to say something... As for (Highlighted) Tell that to Greece, ROI(GB bailing them out with £18b) only a couple of years ago. As has been mentioned too, Italy are on the brink. One thing that really annoys me when people have to point out the failings of our Country yet f**k off to live abroad yet want to have a say in how our Country is run!

 

[martcov]

We knew that things would need to be negotiated. We buy much more from the EU than they buy from us. Yet we are supposed to believe that they will want high tariffs for themselves.

And how about the debacle on trying to sort out a trade agreement with Canada?

The EU is a joke and is getting worse. Ànd most of them moaning on here seem to live in other countries or have a partner from the EU

Believe what you want to. Time will tell.

Deal with Canada has been done - sort of. Wait until the queue of countries wanting to trade with us come along ... how long do you think that will take? how many are already in the queue?

Funny that the ones moaning know at least what they are talking about ( about living in Europe or how Europeans think about the UK ), and the ones voting for the lucky dip are still on a learning curve.

 

[martcov]

Once again I feel I have to say something... As for (Highlighted) Tell that to Greece, ROI(GB bailing them out with £18b) only a couple of years ago. As has been mentioned too, Italy are on the brink. One thing that really annoys me when people have to point out the failings of our Country yet f**k off to live abroad yet want to have a say in how our Country is run!

Considering you are out of this, you seem to be more in than most.

I don't think anyone needs to point how well our country have dealt with the Brexit issue...... ;-) It is self evident that it is a 'failing'.

Leavers are hoping that the EU fails in order to justify them voting for the unknown. Understandable really.

 

[martcov]

Sick man of Europe?

You either don't have a clue or are taking the piss.

Sick man of Europe was used often enough to describe the U.K. of the 70s. It was used to describe Turkey at the end of the Ottoman empire originally.

 

[martcov]

Most people

So having open borders has nothing to do with the overcrowding that we now have. And I need to show proof in this?

Do I need proof of the gravy train that the EU is?

Why is it that those protesting about the lies from the exit lot never mention the lies from the remain lot but those who see the benefits of leaving mention both sides lied to us?

No, just put the Tele on and you'll see that gravy trainer Nigel Farage....

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Considering you are out of this, you seem to be more in than most.

I don't think anyone needs to point how well our country have dealt with the Brexit issue...... ;-) It is self evident that it is a 'failing'.

Leavers are hoping that the EU fails in order to justify them voting for the unknown. Understandable really.

Says the one who has made more posts on this than anybody else hahaha.

 

[martcov]

Says the one who has made more posts on this than anybody else hahaha.

Never said I was out. If I had have done, I would have looked a bit stupid coming in and out all the time......;-)

 

[chiefdave]

Deal with Canada has been done - sort of.

Work first started on that in March 2004, in May 2009 they decided to proceed with negotiations and it took until August 2014 to conclude negotiations.

At that point in needed to be agreed by all the member states, the European Council and the European Parliament. Its still batting back and forth with amendments being made to satisfy various countries. They finally agreed last week and some of the deal will take effect next year.

However for the full deal to come in approval is still needed by 38 national and regional parliaments of the 28 member states.

We have 2 years to agree our equivalent.

 

[Sick Boy]

Sick man of Europe?

You either don't have a clue or are taking the piss.

You're embarrassing yourself now.

 

[Astute]

You're embarrassing yourself now.

Why is that?

 

[Astute]

Work first started on that in March 2004, in May 2009 they decided to proceed with negotiations and it took until August 2014 to conclude negotiations.

At that point in needed to be agreed by all the member states, the European Council and the European Parliament. Its still batting back and forth with amendments being made to satisfy various countries. They finally agreed last week and some of the deal will take effect next year.

However for the full deal to come in approval is still needed by 38 national and regional parliaments of the 28 member states.

We have 2 years to agree our equivalent.

On our side we have the fact of buying much more from the EU than we sell to them. It is the opposite to the EU and Canada.

And it also highlights one of the problems with the EU.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Never said I was out. If I had have done, I would have looked a bit stupid coming in and out all the time......;-)

Considering you are out of this, you seem to be more in than most.

I don't think anyone needs to point how well our country have dealt with the Brexit issue...... ;-) It is self evident that it is a 'failing'.

Leavers are hoping that the EU fails in order to justify them voting for the unknown. Understandable really.

Yawnnnnnnn, Great Britain never signed up for EU rule. We've had a referendum on something that never happened in the first place. Now are you going to reply to my post about Greece, Italy, and ROI or are you going to dance around like a politician with your Britain is "Failing" shit?

 

[Astute]

And to add to that the EU stops us from making trade agreements with the rest of the world. We have to rely on the whole of the EU not acting like idiots. Something they seem to be very good at. The EU has more to lose than us.

It might not be easy for a few years. But once things start improving there will be no looking back.

 

[Captain Dart]

And how about the debacle on trying to sort out a trade agreement with Canada?

EU governance is an unworkable compromise with no way the electorate can make the politicians change course, that's a huge part of the reason why I wanted out.
Did anybody ever offer an alternative to the treaties of Maastrict, Amsterdam, Nice or Lisbon? No they were foisted upon the country and it would have been adopted by Labour or the Tories whoever were in power. That is the sea change 15 years over which this country became a province of Europe with less power to govern itself than any US state.
I was certainly not accepting the utter bullshit (or lies if you like) both campaigns were pumping out, in fact if anything it shows that politics needs a new more honest face and some means of punishing the blatant liars.

 

[martcov]

EU governance is an unworkable compromise with no way the electorate can make the politicians change course, that's a huge part of the reason why I wanted out.
Did anybody ever offer an alternative to the treaties of Maastrict, Amsterdam, Nice or Lisbon? No they were foisted upon the country and it would have been adopted by Labour or the Tories whoever were in power. That is the sea change 15 years over which this country became a province of Europe with less power to govern itself than any US state.
I was certainly not accepting the utter bullshit (or lies if you like) both campaigns were pumping out, in fact if anything it shows that politics needs a new more honest face and some means of punishing the blatant liars.

Problem is that leave lied on facts and remain on predictions. Predictions are counted as opinions - some were deplorable as they were meant to frighten - and were often wrong ( as of now - still early days ). It is a bit different to actually lying about known facts. There is even a possibility of prosecution of the people who knowingly lied to deceive, which can only be good for future politics.

 

[Astute]

Problem is that leave lied on facts and remain on predictions.

Wrong.

Cameron said that they were in talks about changes that were going to be made. Someone from the EU said that there was nothing going to be given to us. And that he knew so.

 

[martcov]

Yawnnnnnnn, Great Britain never signed up for EU rule. We've had a referendum on something that never happened in the first place. Now are you going to reply to my post about Greece, Italy, and ROI or are you going to dance around like a politician with your Britain is "Failing" shit?

Back again I see..... no, but the government approved the evolution of the EU. It wasn't forced on us. We have had the option of article 50 since Lisbon.

Let's see what happens with the countries you mentioned.

Good that you mention ROI. How do you think it's going to pan out in Northern Ireland? Northern Ireland businesses who deal with Europe are already opening Euro accounts ( yes, the white elephant currency as opposed to the GBP ) and people are worried about how the border with the EU will be dealt with. Before the peace process there was less interaction between north and south. It will be a lot more complicated now to enforce a border. But leavers don't give a toss about problems with Ireland and Scotland. They just say they have to take it.... the UK says so. It will be interesting to see what happens when people question the legitimacy of the UK government. Maybe Farage can give the people some tips on how to protest against foreign powers refusing them their sovereignty ....

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I absolutely love this... Enjoy...

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/three-great-myths-of-the-sulking-remainers/

 

[martcov]

Wrong.

Cameron said that they were in talks about changes that were going to be made. Someone from the EU said that there was nothing going to be given to us. And that he knew so.

Well that can be added to the list of prosecutions then..

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Back again I see..... no, but the government approved the evolution of the EU. It wasn't forced on us. We have had the option of article 50 since Lisbon.

Let's see what happens with the countries you mentioned.

Good that you mention ROI. How do you think it's going to pan out in Northern Ireland? Northern Ireland businesses who deal with Europe are already opening Euro accounts ( yes, the white elephant currency as opposed to the GBP ) and people are worried about how the border with the EU will be dealt with. Before the peace process there was less interaction between north and south. It will be a lot more complicated now to enforce a border. But leavers don't give a toss about problems with Ireland and Scotland. They just say they have to take it.... the UK says so. It will be interesting to see what happens when people question the legitimacy of the UK government. Maybe Farage can give the people some tips on how to protest against foreign powers refusing them their sovereignty ....

I'm sorry!!! didn't realise that I had to have your permission to post on here!.. You like asking questions, try answering some!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Well that can be added to the list of prosecutions then..

Good save!!!...F**k me you're better than Lee Burge!

 

[Astute]

I absolutely love this... Enjoy...

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/three-great-myths-of-the-sulking-remainers/

Describes a few on here perfectly.

 

[Sick Boy]

Describes a few on here perfectly.

I got as far as "a hilariously silly cow" and gave up.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I got as far as "a hilariously silly cow" and gave up.

Please tell me why you care about our Country so much that you are leaving it?.. You've done nothing but slag it, and its people off and are moving to Italy yet seem to want us to remain in the EU? WHY?... Would it be to keep propping up the economy of where you're going to?

 

[Kingokings204]

Just caught up on all this reading. I find it great we all have different views and that's healthy and good but I have to draw the line at posters who have suggested second referendums etc.

the whole idea is you have a debate and a campaign. Remain had their fans and arguments and leave the same and what happened is every person in this country eligible to vote voted and we got a result. 52-48 leave and that's the end of it for me.

No muddying the waters what brexit means and "hard and soft brexit" which doesn't even exist anyway. It's time everyone including leave voters moved on and we invoke article 50 and get on with it. No more crying and whinging. We are all British at the end of the day and this is the U.K. Until that changes I am British and proud of the fact I am.

 

[martcov]

Just caught up on all this reading. I find it great we all have different views and that's healthy and good but I have to draw the line at posters who have suggested second referendums etc.

the whole idea is you have a debate and a campaign. Remain had their fans and arguments and leave the same and what happened is every person in this country eligible to vote voted and we got a result. 52-48 leave and that's the end of it for me.

No muddying the waters what brexit means and "hard and soft brexit" which doesn't even exist anyway. It's time everyone including leave voters moved on and we invoke article 50 and get on with it. No more crying and whinging. We are all British at the end of the day and this is the U.K. Until that changes I am British and proud of the fact I am.

Usually you have a debate and campaign for something that you know what it is. Must be the first time that people campaigned for what they thought they were going to get, only to find out that, after they won, that no-one seems to know exactly what that it was that they were campaigning for.

 

[martcov]

I'm sorry!!! didn't realise that I had to have your permission to post on here!.. You like asking questions, try answering some!

You don't, but you were the one who took yourself out and then spent the rest of the evening coming in again.

You want me to answer questions- which I did - but you duck the ones you can't answer....

Anyway I am going to bed. I won't be coming back and forth until tomorrow because when I say out, I actually mean it..... ;-)

 

[dadgad]

So having open borders has nothing to do with the overcrowding that we now have. And I need to show proof in this?

Yes, you do because "overcrowding" is a relative term. There is more space, for instance, in the U.K. given over to golf courses than housing.
There are also fifty other countries worldwide that have a higher population density than the U.K.
We aren't even the country with the highest pop. density in the EU. - that's Holland.

This is just one bit of bullshit spouted by a Brexiteers to justify their stupidity.

 

[Brylowes]

Yet you try and make out that the bullshit was all on the exit side.

I learned more about the EU as I looked into it after the vote was publicised. And the more I found out the more I thought that getting out was best for my kids and grandkids.

Fuck me Astute, not you, you're better than this.

 

[Astute]

Usually you have a debate and campaign for something that you know what it is. Must be the first time that people campaigned for what they thought they were going to get, only to find out that, after they won, that no-one seems to know exactly what that it was that they were campaigning for.

Putting it plainly most of the politicians lied to us. But here we are with the same old line. Making out that the exit voters didn't know what they voted for. It would be like throwing your toys out of the pram after each general election. They lie to us and we don't get what we are promised.

I didn't vote leave. But I understand why people did. If there was another vote I would be at the front of the queue to put my cross in the leave box. I have had enough of the whingers that didn't get their way and won't accept what the public wanted.

So you think that the older generations haven't got a clue what they voted for but the younger people are more knowledgeable about complex affairs?

 

[Astute]

Yes, you do because "overcrowding" is a relative term. There is more space, for instance, in the U.K. given over to golf courses than housing.
There are also fifty other countries worldwide that have a higher population density than the U.K.
We aren't even the country with the highest pop. density in the EU. - that's Holland.

This is just one bit of bullshit spouted by a Brexiteers to justify their stupidity.

So we should build everywhere and not care? Carry on building on flood plains? Dig up the countryside?

Did you know that we already have a vast amount of homeless people?

Look at the reasons you are giving to keep open borders. Just what is expected from those using statistics to say why the leave vote was wrong.

The truth is we can't cope with what we have now. Record homelessness. Hospitals that can't cope. Roads that get blocked all the time. We need the infrastructure to catch up. And who is going to pay for it all? Would you be happy for massive tax increases? The younger generations have it hard enough already.

I am one of the lucky ones. Still in my 40's. Bought my first house in the 90's. Nice 3 bed semi for 26k. Less than 1.5 times my salary. I managed to get a job with a final salary pension. I would be better off staying in the EU. But I have to consider the future of my kids and grandkids.

I live in an area where the infrastructure is in place. There are plenty of well paid jobs. We had someone who was visiting recently who was rushed to hospital. She couldn't believe how empty the hospital was. A traffic jam is being held up by 30 seconds. But as soon as we get on the M6 reality hits home.

We need to forget about high speed railways and build houses that are fit and big enough to live in that don't get flooded each time it rains. We need hospitals that are paid for and not rented. We need more roads.

I have never said that I don't want more people moving to the UK. But we should have the choice on who comes here. We need the right skills to help us grow. But we also need to have somewhere for everyone to have a decent quality of life. And arguing over who told what lies just doesn't do it for me. At the end of the day we still need to sort out many problems we have before we make it any worse.

 

[Sick Boy]

Please tell me why you care about our Country so much that you are leaving it?.. You've done nothing but slag it, and its people off and are moving to Italy yet seem to want us to remain in the EU? WHY?... Would it be to keep propping up the economy of where you're going to?

I am moving there as it is my right as an EU citizen and my partner is Italian. We are moving there as she does not feel welcome in this country and we are both fed up with the poor quality of life and never being able to buy a house.

I actually think the EU will be better off long run without the UK, actually. I want it to remain as I want what is best for the UK and to stop right wig zealots from trashing the place.

There is so much ignorance and a lack of understanding about the EU on this forum, most of it just recycled from the Express and Mail.

 

[Astute]

I actually think the EU will be better off long run without the UK, actually.

I agree with the rest of what you are saying. But I don't get this bit. We will be hard to replace. And if leaving goes wrong it will hurt the EU at least as much as us.

And you say that you can't afford to buy a house in England. Yet you say that you are both professional people. This shows how hard it is for the younger generations.

At least it is a lovely place that you say you are moving to. Love Italy. And Peroni. Planning to spend a lot of my retirement there in 11 years 5 months when my youngest two are 18 and 19.