Wave of optimism (58 Viewers)

[rondog1973]

If the club is making multi million losses, what other option does it have but to sell players? Is it me or have we only just become a selling club? Are we the only team to sell players?

The Ricoh is a complicated issue that nobody knows the full ins and outs of. I would suggest if someone does they should say. It's too simplistic to just blame SISU. Maybe simplistic sums up the intelligence of some of our fans. AL said ACL was an ok business, she lied. Like Fisher and SISU do. Yet you gobble up everything the other parties say apart from SISU. Is it SISU's fault TM flopped for all of 2016? Did they not put their faith in a respected manager and he failed?

Why is breakeven not the most important thing? The club needs foundations, being breakeven gives it that. It's a base from which to build. Far better than debt being lumped on to it. Surely an investor would be more inclined to invest if the club wasn't making losses?

Deflect blame? So are you saying CCC, Higgs and Wasps have done no wrong? Maybe the blame is just being dished out to people who have done wrong? Would make sense as SISU take most of the blame and abuse. Do CCC not deflect blame also? Were they not the ones who employed a PR company, were they not targetting JS.

Destruction of the club? The club is dying? I don't get all this, it's very melodramatic. The club is fulfilling it's fixtures and paying it's bills. No it's not winning every game as some fans expect but from what I'm aware of, there is no team who wins every game. Internationals? We're a league one club, keep up. We have league one attendences, league one players and a league one budget. We have no divine right to be in the championship or premiership because of catchment area or spending a long time in the top division. Weren't we constantly fighting relegation in the top division? Is it much different to now.

Investors won't want bad press or troublesome fans, so to an extent he has a point. Fans are protesting for what reason? Because we moved to Northampton? Yet we welcome Wasps with open arms? Or we got relegated from the Championship? This happens, it's football. Or is it that SISU aren't investing? Now I expect abuse for this but not overly bothered. Why do we expect a Cayman Island hedge fund to invest in a football club it has no affinity with? Yet people who love and support the club actively withhold money from the club. On some sort of understand that it goes into SISU's pocket, to which there is no proof. Or the idea that they will sell up, which again there is no proof.

We're in a relegation battle but apparently 3 points weren't important the other night? I don't understand the logic behind that.

The club has been riddled with bad decision making for years. It's been subject to inteference from a local council more interested in themselves than the benefit of the city and it's people. That isn't deflecting blame or SISU stooge, it's what it is.

It might be three 3 idiots then because I find it appalling our fans won't stand up to CCC or Wasps. In effect they are doing exactly what CCC and Wasps want. A city of rugby! The club is being run into the ground by ALL parties, we shouldn't let any of them get away with it.

There is no appetite in Coventry to see Wasps removed from the Ricoh whilst Sisu are the club owners.

If you want to disprove this theory, get off your arse and organise a protest against these other parties you hold accountable and stop bleating on a fans forum about it.

Good luck.

 

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[torchomatic]

CCC, ACL and Wasps have had a hand in our downfall, that can't be denied, so I don't think "deflecting the blame" is quite accurate.

 

[torchomatic]

There is no appetite in Coventry to see Wasps removed from the Ricoh whilst Sisu are the club owners.
.

That's right. Sad, isn't it?

 

[stupot07]

Would surprise me if the plan is
Crowds of 3 k so they can temporarily move to the Butts.
I

Thats ridiculous.

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[rondog1973]

That's right. Sad, isn't it?

Don't want Wasps here. Outweighed though by not wanting Sisu here.

 

[torchomatic]

Don't want Wasps here. Outweighed though by not wanting Sisu here.

That's what I mean, proves my point. A team swan in and take the stadium from us (for whatever reason people shouldn't like it no matter whose fault it is) yet not a word is said. And, if someone does say something then they are accused of excusing SISU.

 

[skybluericoh]

I understand the rationale to run a business 'not for loss' so the break even I do agree with to a point. But last season when things were going well gates were over 16000 and rising.Then came the fall and the club for whatever reason, didn't recruit, and we are now a struggling L1 team with a very disenfranchised fan base.

Run it on break even as your number 1 then the spiral down will get get quicker. SISU state they have invested 60 /70 Million depending on who says what, at the moment, they might get 2-3 million, So I understand why they will not sell, but with the business model they are running it will be worth maybe £500k in a year. The longer they stay the more they will lose.

I still believe the main reason to run a football club should be to compete, not breakeven, but should also live within it means.

As for the protests, I can see why fans would ru on the pitch etc, I wouldn't as a criminal record would hinder my lifestyle, but those that did, FairPlay to them. However I i was an official, or member of a public organisation I would have to come out and say it was wrong. Some people have different responsibilities, so have to act and say things in a certain way, I get to some CCFC may be the most important thing in their lives and as such will feel more passionate about it. For me NOPM will have to do.

 

[rondog1973]

That's what I mean, proves my point. A team swan in and take the stadium from us (for whatever reason people shouldn't like it no matter whose fault it is) yet not a word is said. And, if someone does say something then they are accused of excusing SISU.

Think what the OP is saying though is that the protest and subsequent interviews Fisher has given has focused minds on the club owners role in CCFC's fall from grace.

Regardless of differences in opinion on the role other parties have played, the aftermath has layed bare Sisu's ambitions and that surely is a cause for all fans to condemn.

 

[torchomatic]

Think what the OP is saying though is that the protest and subsequent interviews Fisher has given has focused minds on the club owners role in CCFC's fall from grace.

Regardless of differences in opinion on the role other parties have played, the aftermath has layed bare Sisu's ambitions and that surely is a cause for all fans to condemn.

I totally agree with you, just saying though that things would not be so grave if Wasps were still where they belonged. In London. A new investor/owner would then have the option to negotiate a deal with CCC for ACL. Still, that ship has sailed now.

 

[rondog1973]

I totally agree with you, just saying though that things would not be so grave if Wasps were still where they belonged. In London. A new investor/owner would then have the option to negotiate a deal with CCC for ACL. Still, that ship has sailed now.

This is the Catch 22 for me. Don't think Sisu would relinquish club ownership whilst ACL was up for grabs.

 

[chiefdave]

I still believe the main reason to run a football club should be to compete, not breakeven, but should also live within it means.

But you can't do both. Lets say SISU, or any new owner for that matter, suddenly decide to 'invest' £5m to get us promoted. How do they get a return on that? Either we don't get promotion and that moneys basically lost or we do get promotion and even more is needed the following season as you're competing with teams that are prepared to put a lot of money in.

Our problem is we're in a unique situation with regards to our ground which makes us unattractive as a takeover target. That means we aren't seeing the cycle of owner comes in, pumps millions in then walks away writing it off for the next person to try.

 

[torchomatic]

This is the Catch 22 for me. Don't think Sisu would relinquish club ownership whilst ACL was up for grabs.

Well, we'll never know but I certainly think we'd be more attractive to potential owners.

 

[Astute]

Clueless

Clueless?

So I was the 20th person to think it deserved a 'like'. The one thing I noticed was not one person who tries to put the blame on CCC, CET or anyone but SISU in every thread that they can gave it a 'like'. For how many was it because it shows fan unity against SISU and how badly that they have run our club?

 

[dongonzalos]

Think what the OP is saying though is that the protest and subsequent interviews Fisher has given has focused minds on the club owners role in CCFC's fall from grace.

Regardless of differences in opinion on the role other parties have played, the aftermath has layed bare Sisu's ambitions and that surely is a cause for all fans to condemn.

Exactly

 

[dongonzalos]

Thats ridiculous.

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Why TF said if crowds go down he will just cut more.
His sole aim is breakeven. If that means 3k at the Butts then he would have no qualms as long as it is breakeven.
We can't afford the Ricoh
We can't afford a new stadium
Our current attendance is too big for the Butts
2 more years of this?
Who knows.

 

[stupot07]

Why TF said if crowds go down he will just cut more.
His sole aim is breakeven. If that means 3k at the Butts then he would have no qualms as long as it is breakeven.
We can't afford the Ricoh
We can't afford a new stadium
Our current attendance is too big for the Butts
2 more years of this?
Who knows.

Thats different to you saying the aim/objective is to get down to 3k so they can move to the butts. There are minimum requirement for stadia in thr football league, IIRC is 5k (with a specific % of seating at L1 & 2) so it wouldn't need to get to 3k to become an option.



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[Otis]

Thats different to you saying the aim/objective is to get down to 3k so they can move to the butts.



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Yeah.

I have always alluded to this and I CAN see it happening, but not by design, just simply that it would suit Sisu if it ever happened that this business model lead to league two and lower and lower crowds.

 

[Gosford Green]

BPA will not happen, not while this lot are the owners of CCFC they (CRFC) will not go anywhere near them.

Fisher knows this and used the pitch invasion as a get out.

 

[italiahorse]

That's what I mean, proves my point. A team swan in and take the stadium from us (for whatever reason people shouldn't like it no matter whose fault it is) yet not a word is said. And, if someone does say something then they are accused of excusing SISU.

We have never had the stadium ?

 

[torchomatic]

We have never had the stadium ?

True, but it was built for us, not for a London Franchise. Should make CCFC fans angry, but it doesn't. Some even embrace it, don't they?

 

[italiahorse]

True, but it was built for us, not for a London Franchise. Should make CCFC fans angry, but it doesn't. Some even embrace it, don't they?

Just sums Sisu up.
Could have had it for less than £30M, wanted it for peanuts and will spend more than £30M on something half the size.
Mismanagement of epic proportions.

 

[torchomatic]

Just sums Sisu up.
Could have had it for less than £30M, wanted it for peanuts and will spend more than £30M on something half the size.
Mismanagement of epic proportions.

Maybe if they were offered the same deal at the same price we wouldn't be talking about Wasps.

 

[Grendel]

Clueless?

So I was the 20th person to think it deserved a 'like'. The one thing I noticed was not one person who tries to put the blame on CCC, CET or anyone but SISU in every thread that they can gave it a 'like'. For how many was it because it shows fan unity against SISU and how badly that they have run our club?

As another poster has pointed out there is zero evidence of a single thing to be optimistic about

 

[Moff]

Whilst the fan base might seem more united at the moment I am struggling to find much to be optimistic about.

It seems that Sisu are determined not to realise their losses and are prepared to let the club's future spiral down in order to achieve that. Until that changes it is going to be very hard to be positive or to expect other decision makers to give a damn.

Yes others need to be involved, need to make decisions to help, have some responsibility for where we are, but by far the biggest responsibility lays with Ccfc owners, the decisions they have made and the inability to adapt in any way to a changing environment. Hiding behind what everyone else has done to shelter rank bad management and strategy does not cut it in any business.

This is what I don't get OSB, how long will Sisu want to hold onto a business that's customer base is falling and falling?

Surely at some point if we fall down the leagues they will need to sell, surely investors will want some return at some point, they wont want to keep the club for year after year, into decades? So why devalue the business by epic proportions, as selling a League club as compared to say a lower league conference side would surely be worth a whole lot more.

 

[Astute]

True, but it was built for us, not for a London Franchise. Should make CCFC fans angry, but it doesn't. Some even embrace it, don't they?

Of course it makes us angry. And it pisses me off when people make excuses for SISU. And it is exactly what Fisher wants.

 

[Astute]

Maybe if they were offered the same deal at the same price we wouldn't be talking about Wasps.

Maybe if Fisher didn't keep saying that they were building their own stadium and would never go back to the Ricoh CCC wouldn't have sold it to them. It gave CCC enough excuses to sell to someone else.

 

[torchomatic]

Maybe if Fisher didn't keep saying that they were building their own stadium and would never go back to the Ricoh CCC wouldn't have sold it to them. It gave CCC enough excuses to sell to someone else.

There will never be an excuse for selling to an outside team. Keep making them for CCC though, that's how they've got away with it. Doubt this would've happened in other cities.

 

[dongonzalos]

The debt isn't growing - don't you understand anything?

I think you need to get out your little pocket dictionary and look up the word 'starts'.

 

[dongonzalos]

Maybe if they were offered the same deal at the same price we wouldn't be talking about Wasps.

Maybe when they were told put your best bid in or the council are going elsewhere. As they can't continue to be held to ransom. Maybe then if we bid we might have got the deal Wasps did?

 

[dongonzalos]

Yeah.

I have always alluded to this and I CAN see it happening, but not by design, just simply that it would suit Sisu if it ever happened that this business model lead to league two and lower and lower crowds.

A better way of explaining what I mean. Effectively it is in their contingency plans

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Never said if you protest against SISU you support Wasps and CCC. What I said was all parties are to blame and should be brought to task for it. Why is that so hard to comprehend? The sale to Wasps is a result of action SISU took? You know that for sure or it's your opinion. Apart from misleading comments made to the public by all parties. AL 'washing it's face' to TF 'we have two sites'. They are all as bad as each other. None of the parties have shown they have CCFC's interests at heart. You describe the sale to Wasps as perhaps a mortal blow, this has been instigated by egos and self interest at all parties. Wasps and SISU want to make money at any cost. CCC just want to play big business people. None thought of the clubs future when taking the actions they have.
I don't want to see Ben Stevenson sold or any other promising youngster, I want them to be the future of the team. Lads who have come through the academy and appreciate the opportunity given by the club to show what they can do. Who work hard to have successful careers with the club. If the player then outgrows the club, I have no problem with him being sold. I accept that most clubs sell players but as you mention, preferably at the best price. Problem is due to the atmosphere created around the club and amongst the fanbase, by SISU and CCC. With results also bad, as you mention attendences will fall. I don't think anyone thinks the clubs marketing, PR and general approach is good enough. On another thread Nick made some good points as to what they could do. You mention some to. We have to get them to listen, I just don't think demanding they sell up will work.
Maybe we could as a fanbase agree on 3 points we think can be improved and how at minimal cost. Then protest for them to implement them. I know it shouldn't be this way, but if we want SISU gone, I think we're going to have to help them make the club more attractive.

Is it hard to comprehend Fisher is trying to blackmail CCFC fans?.

 

[dongonzalos]

If the club is making multi million losses, what other option does it have but to sell players? Is it me or have we only just become a selling club? Are we the only team to sell players?

The Ricoh is a complicated issue that nobody knows the full ins and outs of. I would suggest if someone does they should say. It's too simplistic to just blame SISU. Maybe simplistic sums up the intelligence of some of our fans. AL said ACL was an ok business, she lied. Like Fisher and SISU do. Yet you gobble up everything the other parties say apart from SISU. Is it SISU's fault TM flopped for all of 2016? Did they not put their faith in a respected manager and he failed?

Why is breakeven not the most important thing? The club needs foundations, being breakeven gives it that. It's a base from which to build. Far better than debt being lumped on to it. Surely an investor would be more inclined to invest if the club wasn't making losses?

Deflect blame? So are you saying CCC, Higgs and Wasps have done no wrong? Maybe the blame is just being dished out to people who have done wrong? Would make sense as SISU take most of the blame and abuse. Do CCC not deflect blame also? Were they not the ones who employed a PR company, were they not targetting JS.

Destruction of the club? The club is dying? I don't get all this, it's very melodramatic. The club is fulfilling it's fixtures and paying it's bills. No it's not winning every game as some fans expect but from what I'm aware of, there is no team who wins every game. Internationals? We're a league one club, keep up. We have league one attendences, league one players and a league one budget. We have no divine right to be in the championship or premiership because of catchment area or spending a long time in the top division. Weren't we constantly fighting relegation in the top division? Is it much different to now.

Investors won't want bad press or troublesome fans, so to an extent he has a point. Fans are protesting for what reason? Because we moved to Northampton? Yet we welcome Wasps with open arms? Or we got relegated from the Championship? This happens, it's football. Or is it that SISU aren't investing? Now I expect abuse for this but not overly bothered. Why do we expect a Cayman Island hedge fund to invest in a football club it has no affinity with? Yet people who love and support the club actively withhold money from the club. On some sort of understand that it goes into SISU's pocket, to which there is no proof. Or the idea that they will sell up, which again there is no proof.

We're in a relegation battle but apparently 3 points weren't important the other night? I don't understand the logic behind that.

The club has been riddled with bad decision making for years. It's been subject to inteference from a local council more interested in themselves than the benefit of the city and it's people. That isn't deflecting blame or SISU stooge, it's what it is.

It might be three 3 idiots then because I find it appalling our fans won't stand up to CCC or Wasps. In effect they are doing exactly what CCC and Wasps want. A city of rugby! The club is being run into the ground by ALL parties, we shouldn't let any of them get away with it.

Tim Fisher deflects......
Thursday we the fans killed off the new Butts stadium we so badly wanted.
We made Ball boys cry.
We put off potential investors of what is a good investment.
We put off potential new managers.
We were protesting to owners who wouldn't hear about it unless Tim Fisher passes on the message. As they are not involved in the club.
We made the players shoulders drop and affected their performance.

All of the above deflects from the truth....
The choosen new manager rejected the club before this protest over after he heard SISU's plans for funding of the club.
The Butts deal according to some was not happening prior to the protest.
What investors the club isn't for sale?
The players had one of their better games.

SISU with the help of Les Reid has done the same with deflecting blame onto the Council, Wasps, The Higgs charity, past owners and the CET. They have been for years.

I not saying these others are blameless just that whilst the blame gets deflected around you do not get a concerted focus in one direction like on Thursday. It was great to see the fans unite in a protest the people who carry the lions share of the blame for our current situation.

They took over 9 years ago for heavens sake.
They had 9 years to negotiate a better rent deal to buy ACL.
To make the original plan of a quick return to the premier league work so the rent deal did not matter.

They employed people who could not do this. This initial money was wasted Plan A screwed up.
They then employed more people on the board who did not have a clue.
They then got us relegated whilst going for Plan B ACL.
They tried to destroy it and I would suggest did quite well by the looks of it. However each time they seem to win the would try one step more.
They secured a good rent deal then renaged on it. They got ACL on its knees yet when CCC said enough bid now or we have a plan B, they didn't and tried to push it further.

You are right we don't have any devine right. However we do have a right to want owners whose priority is the club not a different business and making decisions for the best for that business not the club.

So for me it was very positive to see most fans seeing through the deflections and uniting to get owners who care about the club over any other business.

 

[Astute]

There will never be an excuse for selling to an outside team. Keep making them for CCC though, that's how they've got away with it. Doubt this would've happened in other cities.

Here we go again. Making excuses for CCC? So what excuse did I make for CCC? The only thing I stated was what Fisher said. Are you trying to say he didn't say it many times?

 

[lifeskyblue]

Whatever we think of ccc or other parties they don't run CCFC. The mess the football club it is SISU who are to blame they have made the decisions that have put us where we are..... sorry mr Fisher they don't make the decisions or so you tell us. Therefore the buck stops with you


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[torchomatic]

Here we go again. Making excuses for CCC? So what excuse did I make for CCC? The only thing I stated was what Fisher said. Are you trying to say he didn't say it many times?

Why not tell me what anger we have seen then from the majority of people on here or in Coventry itself? Or the local press? The city and many CCFC fans rolled over and let it happen basically because it fucked up SISU once and for all, that's all that matters to most people. Doesn't matter who was involved with the sale or the devastating affect it had on our club. And it has achieved nothing as SISU are still here with little hope they will be leaving any time soon. And when they do? We'll still be renting from Wasps with no income. We're fucked.

As I said this wouldn't have happened in Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester or anywhere else.