The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (205 Viewers)

[Astute]

Yes, but.....their Brexit arguments were built on fake facts and populism. If Blair - c**t that he is - can bring real facts and good arguments, then fair play listen to him. Make your own mind up. Now, Farage.... If, if , if he ever brought real facts and sensible arguments, then I would listen to him. He is too busy looking after a French... mistress?... at the moment. Feel sorry for the German wife.

Tony Bliar took us to war. It was all based on fake facts. Now I am supposed to be excited about some new 'facts' that he comes out with.

If he saw Europe as our biggest ally why did we go to war with the USA? Bliar just goes along with what is best for him. Here is one for those who enjoy court cases

Tony Blair unrepentant as Chilcot gives crushing Iraq war verdict

And he still doesn't admit that it could have been the wrong thing to do :banghead:

 

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[Grendel]

Gary Glitter?! What a great level of debate, ffs.

No it isn't.

I guess though the point is that Anthony Blair is not really a great witness to be called for anything.

I'm not into all this war crimes nonsense but Blair did deceive parliament, has never adequately apologised for the harrassment of a public employee which resulted in his death and has a history of manipulation and deceit - all done for his own gain. He gave a non politician - the thuggish Alistair Campbell - an almost revered status in his inner circle.

Mr Blair really isn't someone to take seriously - vain, money grasping and immoral. Somewhat like the failed project he is trying to defend - no doubt he would love to be part of the euro gravy train.

Thinking about it Mr Blair would fit very well in Brussels - which perhaps is why he would like us to stay.

 

[Sick Boy]

I wonder if the Express will publish this alongside their 'Brexit Boom' stories? - Dailytimes | Survey shows eurozone growth at highest pace in six years

 

[mrtrench]

I wonder if the Express will publish this alongside their 'Brexit Boom' stories? - Dailytimes | Survey shows eurozone growth at highest pace in six years

Honestly, who gives a shit what the Daily Express prints?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Honestly, who gives a shit what the Daily Express prints?

Daily Express readers?

 

[mrtrench]

Daily Express readers?

Can they read?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Can they read?

A very fair point

Catch 22 though innit. Most of us don't read the Express because it's a horrendous paper but... not like those who *do* read it will be keen to read a story like Sick Boy's linked, is it!

 

[SkyblueBazza]

This is such a nonsense argument. I'm no Blair fan, but someone's opinion on one thing doesn't taint all their opinions forever. People can be both massively wrong and massively right on different topics. No-one is making him "the voice of" anything. He's a skilled politician (which frankly is only proven further by the fact that he got an entire country to do something as shit as Iraq), even if he is a massive c**t who started the destruction of the NHS and state education (and Iraq).

You take the argument on its merits, not who is making it.

He is a twat & is only speaking out because there is some gain financially for himself imo

Don't trust him AT ALL

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Sick Boy]

I still maintain that there is a much greater chance of the UK breaking up rather than the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

A very fair point

Catch 22 though innit. Most of us don't read the Express because it's a horrendous paper but... not like those who *do* read it will be keen to read a story like Sick Boy's linked, is it!

The Mail is also a horrendous paper and supported the Nazis prior to Britain declaring war, yet it is the most read paper in the UK.

 

[wingy]

I still maintain that there is a much greater chance of the UK breaking up rather than the EU.

Tend to agree,.Also the Govt appear to be adopting a federalist approach to the region's through devolvement. Necessitated allegedly to hold off separation and elevate the region's status.
A tool I fear to adopt the approach we're running from and play each off against the other.
Differing rate collection, wage levels and uneven grant distribution where the favourites win.

 

[Sick Boy]

Divide and rule has long been a favourite tactic of British governments and wouldn't surprise me.

 

[shmmeee]

He is a twat & is only speaking out because there is some gain financially for himself imo

Don't trust him AT ALL

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Again: play the ball not the man.

You want to trust Boris Johnson? Or Farage? Or Corbyn? Or Blair? Or Nick Clegg? Or George Osborne?

FFS "I won't listen because he's a twat" would mean you never listen to anyone.

 

[Grendel]

The Mail is also a horrendous paper and supported the Nazis prior to Britain declaring war, yet it is the most read paper in the UK.

So did the Daily Mirror. It backed Oswald Mosley

 

[Liquid Gold]

Again: play the ball not the man.

You want to trust Boris Johnson? Or Farage? Or Corbyn? Or Blair? Or Nick Clegg? Or George Osborne?

FFS "I won't listen because he's a twat" would mean you never listen to anyone.

Especially not you

 

[Liquid Gold]

Blair is a twat and only in it for financial gain to his family. I wish he'd keep his mouth shut.

 

[Grendel]

Again: play the ball not the man.

You want to trust Boris Johnson? Or Farage? Or Corbyn? Or Blair? Or Nick Clegg? Or George Osborne?

FFS "I won't listen because he's a twat" would mean you never listen to anyone.

Well no. Blair is the political equivalent of a drug dealer. Always giving you the latest fix on offer with empty promises of Nivarna if you indulge yourself in his latest substance. The user is left bitter and broken while the Blair creature revels in his latest payday.

So when the supplier returns with his latest offer the bedraggled audience has every right to match the charlatan out of town refusing to listen to the latest promise of Utopia.

 

[Sick Boy]

In no other profession could individuals lie so much, it's a disgrace.

 

[dancers lance]

I admit it, I was being intentionally provocative, however, my only intention was to show how disingenuous the "You take the arguments on its merits, not who is making it" viewpoint is. I would also ask a few people in here to take a look back at some of their previous, ad hominem ridden posts where the person has been directly attacked before the viewpoint of the person has been directly addressed.

I think the level for debate on this thread was already set, by those who refuse to even acknowledge that Mr Blair is a proven liar, and not the person to be making the case for remain, but because they agree with his rhetoric, they choose to ignore his past, Alistair Campbell couldn't have tried to spin it any better.

 

[mrtrench]

Blair is a twat and only in it for financial gain to his family. I wish he'd keep his mouth shut.

View attachment 6600

I expected to find that this was falsified/misquoted - it isn't.

1983 Election Leaflet for Tony Blair

 

[chiefdave]

In no other profession could individuals lie so much, it's a disgrace.

Instead of parliamentary privilege allowing them to say anything they want there should be a severe punishment for any MP found to have lied to other MPs or the public.

 

[Sick Boy]

Instead of parliamentary privilege allowing them to say anything they want there should be a severe punishment for any MP found to have lied to other MPs or the public.

The fact that May gave Fox & Johnson such high-level positions says it all, the whole thing is a farce.

 

[wingy]

The fact that May gave Fox & Johnson such high-level positions says it all, the whole thing is a farce.

And Davies.

 

[dancers lance]

The fact that May gave Fox & Johnson such high-level positions says it all, the whole thing is a farce.

I would agree, but I would also say the same thing about Diane 'migraine' Abbott.

 

[dancers lance]

Again: play the ball not the man.

You want to trust Boris Johnson? Or Farage? Or Corbyn? Or Blair? Or Nick Clegg? Or George Osborne?

FFS "I won't listen because he's a twat" would mean you never listen to anyone.

But there is a huge difference in saying "I won't listen because he's a twat" because that is just a personal opinion, and saying "I am not listening to you because you are a proven liar and are totally untrustworthy" ...........to even proffer the simile is disingenuous.

 

[oakey]

Am I alone in being so bored with talking about Blair?
Honestly, isn't he yesterday's man and does it matter any more?
I can't helping thinking we are like generals always fighting the last war and unprepared for the next.

 

[Kingokings204]

Tony Blair is the most vilest creature known to U.K. Voters and him backing remain didn't help their cause. I know some people who said well Blair backs remain so I will back leave. The man doesn't exist now and his latest speech Friday and how quickly it was forgotten shows even his biggest mates want nothing to do with him. He is a criminal in my eyes. Looks after number 1.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

But there is a huge difference in saying "I won't listen because he's a twat" because that is just a personal opinion, and saying "I am not listening to you because you are a proven liar and are totally untrustworthy" ...........to even proffer the simile is disingenuous.

But the latter reasons you state are exactly why he IS a twat!

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Am I alone in being so bored with talking about Blair?
Honestly, isn't he yesterday's man and does it matter any more?
I can't helping thinking we are like generals always fighting the last war and unprepared for the next.

You are certainly not alone, people are only commenting because he is having a go at a comeback; & has been immediately & unjustifiably, thrust into the limelight by the media purely because it helps to further a desperate 'remain' cause

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Sick Boy]

UK not about to 'shut the door' on low-skilled EU migrants, says David Davis

We will need EU migrants for years, admits Davis

What a surprise! Brexit will be one of the biggest betrayals of the working class ever seen. Did anyone really believe that members of the elite such as Johnson, Gove and Farage ever had the best interests of Britain's poorest in their minds? I'm also confused as to how free trade deals with the likes of China and India are going to protect those who have been most affected by globalisation?

 

[wingy]

UK not about to 'shut the door' on low-skilled EU migrants, says David Davis

We will need EU migrants for years, admits Davis

What a surprise! Brexit will be one of the biggest betrayals of the working class ever seen. Did anyone really believe that members of the elite such as Johnson, Gove and Farage ever had the best interests of Britain's poorest in their minds? I'm also confused as to how free trade deals with the likes of China and India are going to protect those who have been most affected by globalisation?

I thought they were the new 'Shop Stewards '.
So keen are they increase our wages.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

UK not about to 'shut the door' on low-skilled EU migrants, says David Davis

We will need EU migrants for years, admits Davis

What a surprise! Brexit will be one of the biggest betrayals of the working class ever seen. Did anyone really believe that members of the elite such as Johnson, Gove and Farage ever had the best interests of Britain's poorest in their minds? I'm also confused as to how free trade deals with the likes of China and India are going to protect those who have been most affected by globalisation?

I agree with some of what you're getting at...but you can't just flick a switch & undo the last 40 or so yrs

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[scubasteve]

and to be fair there was never going to be a complete stop on immigration, it was all going to be as a country we decided on a needs basis, which was always fluid. just like every single country in the world that in isn't part of the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

The current government has no genuine interest in cutting migration and helping communities that have suffered due to globalisation. Why does non-EU migration continue to be so high?

Get ready to be an low an ultra-low tax haven in the future with minimal to zero public services and spending.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The current government has no genuine interest in cutting migration and helping communities that have suffered due to globalisation. Why does non-EU migration continue to be so high?

Get ready to be an low an ultra-low tax haven in the future with minimal to zero public services and spending.

Did you not see the story this week about the supreme court ruling about minimum earnings requirements for British citizens bringing in spouses from outside of the EU?

In fairness, the EU does nothing prevent places becoming ultra low tax havens. The current President of the European Commission is from Luxembourg and helped develop its tax policy. Luxembourg being a European tax haven and an EU member, allowing wealthy companies and individuals to avoid paying tax in EU member states.

Do you really believe that the EU is set up in your best interests? (I'm not asking you to compare it with Britain)