The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (262 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

No. People actually voted for people/ MEPs like Farage.

That was kind of my point...

 

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[mrtrench]

It's the complete freedom from having to be elected that has empowered them to mess around with the article 50 bill

 

[martcov]

It's the complete freedom from having to be elected that has empowered them to mess around with the article 50 bill

Mess around...??? Critically examine it you mean. This is the job of any second chamber, which in fact justifies it's existence.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's the complete freedom from having to be elected that has empowered them to mess around with the article 50 bill

So surely that means all right-minded democrats should be pro an elected chamber?

 

[Kingokings204]

Mess around...??? Critically examine it you mean. This is the job of any second chamber, which in fact justifies it's existence.

Maybe a second chamber is needed maybe not. The point is which I think you agree with is the lords are not elected they are chosen by their friends in politics. It's wrong quite simply.

 

[Kingokings204]

One solution would be to have a shadow house made up of second in the vote in an election. It's would be at least elected and be more than likely a balance of opinion of a lot more than the complete take over by the lib dems in the House of Lords. Either way it needs changing.

Don't even get me started on the money and allowances they get for doing not a lot.

 

[mrtrench]

Mess around...??? Critically examine it you mean. This is the job of any second chamber, which in fact justifies it's existence.

You are right, I didn't mean mess around. I meant fuck around and disrupt democracy.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

While we're at it, now's surely our time to get an elected head of state. While power comes back to the British people, let's make sure they have it.

 

[Astute]

Can you enlighten us with where these countries are and name the MPs who have have received more votes than other politicians?

There is the far-right La Legs Nord who seem to share a lot of your views but they are against those from outside of the EU. Granted, the shambolic 5 Star get a lot of votes but they want to leave the Euro, not the EU. Le Pen has promised a referendum but looks unlikely to win.

Where else?

Is it not possible for black people to be racist? I've seen racism against a white person from a black person. I've even been on the receiving end of it from a Pakistani myself.

Don't worry, myself of non-English blood and my immigrant girlfriend and doing our bit for Britain and leaving. With some of the views expressed on here it's clear significant amount of people within this country do not wish people like us to be here any longer. Perhaps you could replace her midwifery skills with all those British midwives sitting around on the dole?

Why do you try to twist what anyone says when you don't agree? I said that they are getting more votes than ever before. You have previously agreed. Now you make out that I said that they are getting more votes than anyone else.

We have voted leave. I wasn't one of them remember. You need to get over it. You are one of the worse remoaners that there is. You twist whatever anyone says. Then you point out where the politicians twisted the truth. Yet you don't see the irony.

 

[Astute]

I'm not sure why Polish, Romanians or Italians would have walked to Europe from the Middle East?

So you don't see a problem with those who say that they came here to escape persecution but have gone through several safe countries to get here?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So you don't see a problem with those who say that they came here to escape persecution but have gone through several safe countries to get here?

I don't.

I think it reflects well on us as a society that we're seen as somewhere willing to help those in desperate need.

Long may that continue.

 

[Astute]

Can you enlighten us with where these countries are and name the MPs who have have received more votes than other politicians?

There is the far-right La Legs Nord who seem to share a lot of your views but they are against those from outside of the EU. Granted, the shambolic 5 Star get a lot of votes but they want to leave the Euro, not the EU. Le Pen has promised a referendum but looks unlikely to win.

Where else?

Is it not possible for black people to be racist? I've seen racism against a white person from a black person. I've even been on the receiving end of it from a Pakistani myself.

Don't worry, myself of non-English blood and my immigrant girlfriend and doing our bit for Britain and leaving. With some of the views expressed on here it's clear significant amount of people within this country do not wish people like us to be here any longer. Perhaps you could replace her midwifery skills with all those British midwives sitting around on the dole?

You are full of shite. I don't know why I bother other than detest people who bullshit to get a point across. Just like the politicians who you continually point out.

You make out that those who voted leave are racist. I point out that many black people voted leave. Your point is that black people can be racist. So are you saying that they can be racist against their own people?

 

[Astute]

I don't.

I think it reflects well on us as a society that we're seen as somewhere willing to help those in desperate need.

Long may that continue.

Until we have enough housing and infrastructure to cope with those already here we need to do something.

Most come through France to get here. It is a safe country. It is massive compared to the UK. But both have a similar population. Yet you say let whoever wants to come here in even though we can't home everyone already here or look after them?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Until we have enough housing and infrastructure to cope with those already here we need to do something.

Most come through France to get here. It is a safe country. It is massive compared to the UK. But both have a similar population. Yet you say let whoever wants to come here in even though we can't home everyone already here or look after them?

11,600 people were granted asylum in 2014-2015. That's a mere pin prick.

 

[Astute]

Which countries and how many black or migration background people vote for them? How much is a 'a lot' as a percentage?

If you was living in the UK you would most probably seen interviews on the TV where people not born here are saying that there is now enough and it needs to stop.

 

[Astute]

11,600 people were granted asylum in 2014-2015. That's a mere pin prick.

And the population has gone up by how much?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And the population has gone up by how much?

So you agree that the issue is not those granted asylum?

(Worth noting those who aree granted asylum, are granted it because to return to their country would put them in mortal peril)

 

[Liquid Gold]

Why can't these so called refugees in the kindertransport go to France or another safe country. Britain is full of Jews as it is.

 

[mrtrench]

I have no problem whatsoever with any individual that wants to come here to work and contribute. I agree that it's a massive compliment to our country. It's just a numbers issue to my mind, as Astute says.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I have no problem whatsoever with any individual that wants to come here to work and contribute. I agree that it's a massive compliment to our country. It's just a numbers issue to my mind, as Astute says.

They make the country richer, Migrants put far more into the economy than they take out. Plus there is more land for golf clubs in the UK than for housing. It's this so called 'centrist' government the is refusing to invest in necessary infrastructure or affordable housing that is the problem. 11,000 people escaping a war zone are not.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I have no problem whatsoever with any individual that wants to come here to work and contribute. I agree that it's a massive compliment to our country. It's just a numbers issue to my mind, as Astute says.

So, let's ignore Asylum Seekers, as they're a small number of the total, and rather separate to other reasons to come. let's not confuse all as one big whole.

 

[mrtrench]

OK, so you believe 330,000 more people (in addition to organic growth) per year is good for the country and we should just build more houses. Fair enough, I don't agree but neither of us know the sustainable number. But surely you must accept that there is a number which isn't sustainable? One million a year - still good? Ten million? If you accept this then it's really just down to modelling what that number is and controlling so we don't exceed it. If you don't then I cannot accept that you are thinking rationally.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

OK, so you believe 330,000 more people (in addition to organic growth) per year is good for the country and we should just build more houses. Fair enough, I don't agree but neither of us know the sustainable number. But surely you must accept that there is a number which isn't sustainable? One million a year - still good? Ten million? If you accept this then it's really just down to modelling what that number is and controlling so we don't exceed it. If you don't then I cannot accept that you are thinking rationally.

I would say that a free market would see net emigration when it becomes unsustainable...

Always find it interesting the party of the free market wants to control immigration, while the party more associated with state control is more laissez-faire about it.

(since the 80s, anyway)

 

[martcov]

Maybe a second chamber is needed maybe not. The point is which I think you agree with is the lords are not elected they are chosen by their friends in politics. It's wrong quite simply.

No. The point is we need a second chamber to check what comes out of the commons. Maybe a percentage of nominees and the rest elected on a proportional system- thus allowing smaller groups at least some representation.

Lots of better permutations than we have now.

 

[martcov]

OK, so you believe 330,000 more people (in addition to organic growth) per year is good for the country and we should just build more houses. Fair enough, I don't agree but neither of us know the sustainable number. But surely you must accept that there is a number which isn't sustainable? One million a year - still good? Ten million? If you accept this then it's really just down to modelling what that number is and controlling so we don't exceed it. If you don't then I cannot accept that you are thinking rationally.

Is there always organic growth? We are an aging population without migration.

 

[Astute]

So you agree that the issue is not those granted asylum?

(Worth noting those who aree granted asylum, are granted it because to return to their country would put them in mortal peril)

Point out where I have said nobody should be allowed to come here. You can check the whole thread. We should take our fair share. But having open borders to anyone in the EU takes up many multiples of this.

What I did say was about those who are in a safe country but continue their journey until they get here. We don't have unlimited space for everyone. We don't have housing even for people born here. Something needs to be done. Hospitals can't cope in many places. I could go on. And you know that it is true.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But having open borders to anyone in the EU takes up many multiples of this.

This is not asylum, which is what you're agrguing about.

 

[Astute]

Is there always organic growth? We are an aging population without migration.

So we should have millions of people without a home of their own because we have old people?

 

[Astute]

This is not asylum, which is what you're agrguing about.

Where?

All the way through this thread I have said about open borders being wrong. And someone wanting safety that has safety wanting something else.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Where?

The entire last page of this thread!

 

[martcov]

If you was living in the UK you would most probably seen interviews on the TV where people not born here are saying that there is now enough and it needs to stop.

So we should have millions of people without a home of their own because we have old people?

How do you get that? Old people don't get children, so we don't necessarily have organic growth in the future.

 

[Sick Boy]

You are full of shite. I don't know why I bother other than detest people who bullshit to get a point across. Just like the politicians who you continually point out.

You make out that those who voted leave are racist. I point out that many black people voted leave. Your point is that black people can be racist. So are you saying that they can be racist against their own people?

Which politicians?

 

[Sick Boy]

So you don't see a problem with those who say that they came here to escape persecution but have gone through several safe countries to get here?

What has that got to do with Polish, Romanians are Italians?

 

[dutchman]

The next question is, what are you going to do about sex offenders and criminals in our society? Kill them? Deport them elsewhere?

We generally punish them or try and rehabilitate them. That is what we will do with migrant criminals.

Any immigrant convicted of any serious crime should be automatically deported back to their country of origin.

 

[martcov]

Any immigrant convicted of any serious crime should be automatically deported back to their country of origin.

My question was what you would do with our criminals?

Also you need to let the refugees in first to be able deport the bad ones.