C-Unit Council (11 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Should have the talks in Cannes, half the council would turn up then.

 

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[hutch1972]

Should have the talks in Cannes, half the council would turn up then.

All of them.

 

[dongonzalos]

The whole thread is hilarious and completely misses the point.

The council love in is hilarious.

The point is clubs have bad owners and owners who run football clubs into debt. The difference is the attitude of some local authorities and ours.

From the Bhati brothers in Wolverhampton to Nottingham forest running out of funds councils have stepped in to help. By buying the ground and leasing back on a peppercorn rent to providing loans, extensions to loans, writing off loans.

Only one to my knowledge has built a ground (which cost the taxpayer a third of the price of a swimming pool) - created s loan on the back of it and offered a restricted lease to the management company and then asked the football club to pay the whole mortgage with no benefit. Only one has then massively extended the period when someone a hundred miles away comes to town.

Still if this is a representative sample of our fanbase now I see they have and continue to get away with it.

Amazing isn't it?

I think you are missing the point of how a council have been driven tobegavjng in this way.

 

[Grendel]

Amazing isn't it?

I think you are missing the point of how a council have been driven tobegavjng in this way.

Since the 1990's? Ok then yes clearly that's the case

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Just to clarify one point as certain journalists are trying to muddy the water - the mediation is not meant to resolve JR2 and the rights and wrongs of the sale of the Ricoh, rent strikes etc etc (the same historical bollox that gets rehashed here ad infinitum). It is about securing a future for CCFC. This should cover the academy, the training ground and the home ground - all matters that, to a lesser or greater degree, involve CCFC, CCC, ACL/Wasps, CRFC, Coventry Sports Foundation, FA, FL, Sport England, Rugby Borough Council. The Trust view is that the council and wasps could enter into the process without prejudicing their legal position with regard JR2, it might even strengthen their hand if they are seen to be co-operating, and they do not have to stray onto any territory involving JR2. The football club should present to the mediator what they believe they require going forward to survive and prosper and the mediator should engage with the other parties as to the deliverability of these. CCC have said they will look at any planning applications made (which would be from CRFC not CCFC anyway) as its their statutory duty to do so but until that is done how can they be active, passive or indifferent?

Maybe it is more smoke and mirrors and hollow soundbites from Fisher as he stalls for time and keeps FL at bay for another year or two with the scheme of the BPA as the latest "answer" whilst Seppala ploughs on with JR2 to keep her investors off her back and all the while the club sinks lower and lower but I think that CCC should engage in the process and call his bluff.

Fair play.

What's to lose by talking, after all.

 

[Astute]

People are quite happy to slag the council off for not agreeing to enter the mediation process, but there has been no mention of Wasps or CSF. Am I wrong?

And have a go at anyone who refuse to work with SISU but don't mention that CRFC refuse to work with them as they say moving in with them is a good move.

 

[Astute]

When you read some of the apologist nonsense on here "yeah it was high rent but" and posters going into like over drive it hammers home the fact that with fans like ours who needs enemies

Not bad coming from the biggest SISU apologist.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

What I find amazing. Is all these people who have wanted any other organisation to bend over backwards as long as it's for the good of CCFC.
They actively wanted a children's charity to be put under financial pressure.
They wanted a business half owned by CCC half owned by a charity to go bust.
They currently want Wasps to go bust and their fans to suffer.
All because it would be good for CCFC.
They supported CCFC breaking a legally binding contract.
Some even were ok with the club been held at ransom in another town!!

All these people want mediation and a solution to the problem.

Wasps and the Council apparently can help do this. They are both asking for legal action to be dropped that affects them both so they can start helping.

Yet the jokers on here who want the best at all costs for CCFC above all else. What do they say.....

Oh no you can't affect SISU's right to taken legal action!!!

Unbelievable
Screwing over a children's charty, yep as long as it helps CCFC.
Break legally binding contracts, yep all good if it helps CCFC.
Move out club away yep all good as long as it helps CCFC.

Yet ask SISU to drop legal action they won't win against the people they are asking to help them.

Suddenly these jokers find their moral bloody compass.
Oh no you can't do that, that is a step too far. The people getting sued should turn the other cheek and help out regardless.

Bunch of jokers the solution is simple SISU drop the legal action.
Every Cov fan should be asking for that. Why support something that is harming the club and if won wouldn't benefit the club anyway.

Would the higgs have been under financial pressure? Or would ACL have been under financial pressure? Were ACL not already under pressure as only the extortionate rent was keeping the thing going. Would they have lost more money selling to higgs or wasps? Wasps paid 2.77m for 250 years. Sisu 'charitably offered' 2m for 50 years. (See the basis of JR2 right there).
Was the plan for ACL to go bust? Was it not to devalue the loan? Although yes bust would have been preferential for sisu.
Want wasps to go bust or go back to London? Fans suffer? You mean all the new franchise fans who only follow them because of top class rugby, or action replays on the scoreboard. Let's not forget majority of the fans are from cv postcodes. Don't attempt to make out the lifelong fans would be devastated. They lost majority of the lifelong fans when they moved here in a decision you defend. So look at yourself on that one.
A legally binding contract that was a noose around are neck. Putting aside the rent cost. There was no access to revenue and a council veto. No higgs veto though strangely. The club should have bought the revenue rights you all scream. Well they enquired once and we're quoted 24m. That's more than the council put in for revenue access for a company reliant on CCFC. Out of interest where would the 24m have gone?
It would appear some are ok with the club being held to ransom by CCC and wasps as they don't like sisu. That in turn also happy with the club being sidelined as sisu own us.
Regarding dropping the legal action. If you believe something is unfair. That you were not treated the same as others. Would you not challenge it? Do you honestly believe what CCC did was fair on CCFC? Do you given your taxpayers argument not think selling the lease extension after the ricoh sale meant the taxpayer missed out? Should the CCC not have to explain that? I get the impression people want JR2 dropped so the council are not shown up to be as bad as sisu. That morally and legally they are made of the same fibre.

 

[Astute]

Fair play.

What's to lose by talking, after all.

I hope that all sides will start talking. We have got into this mess because of a refusal to talk. It started off with SISU giving their demands and refusing to talk. So they ended up not being included in any negotiations. This meant that negotiations on the future of our club didn't include anyone with anything to do with our football club.

The problem is what can happen with any talks? The damage has already been done. What should have been our home has been sold by a short sighted council to a rugger club that should not be playing anywhere near Coventry. They have put so much debt onto the arena that cheap rental is looking unlikely. They need all the money they can get. Fishers latest 'plan' looks extremely unlikely. CCC are very unlikely to help SISU in any way. And mediation won't change this. A contract to SISU is just a piece of paper to be challenged in court to them. Higgs won't even consider helping our club again especially with SISU still in charge.

So we are left with SISU to get things done. So what have they done so far? For the good of our club I can't think of anything. Money will need to be invested. But they are not even putting in the 60% of income including player sales as they said that they would.

So who believes that SISU would build a stadium at the Butts that they wouldn't own when they could have had the Ricoh for about the same?

We are in the shit. What good could mediation do when there is no trust and words have been so cheap from all sides? I would compare all sides and their behaviour to having a bunch of women arguing over who has the biggest cock. And while it all goes on our football club continues to disintegrate.

Mediation? Yes. But they all want a piece of a pie that has already been eaten.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

Would the higgs have been under financial pressure? Or would ACL have been under financial pressure? Were ACL not already under pressure as only the extortionate rent was keeping the thing going. Would they have lost more money selling to higgs or wasps? Wasps paid 2.77m for 250 years. Sisu 'charitably offered' 2m for 50 years. (See the basis of JR2 right there).
Was the plan for ACL to go bust? Was it not to devalue the loan? Although yes bust would have been preferential for sisu.
Want wasps to go bust or go back to London? Fans suffer? You mean all the new franchise fans who only follow them because of top class rugby, or action replays on the scoreboard. Let's not forget majority of the fans are from cv postcodes. Don't attempt to make out the lifelong fans would be devastated. They lost majority of the lifelong fans when they moved here in a decision you defend. So look at yourself on that one.
A legally binding contract that was a noose around are neck. Putting aside the rent cost. There was no access to revenue and a council veto. No higgs veto though strangely. The club should have bought the revenue rights you all scream. Well they enquired once and we're quoted 24m. That's more than the council put in for revenue access for a company reliant on CCFC. Out of interest where would the 24m have gone?
It would appear some are ok with the club being held to ransom by CCC and wasps as they don't like sisu. That in turn also happy with the club being sidelined as sisu own us.
Regarding dropping the legal action. If you believe something is unfair. That you were not treated the same as others. Would you not challenge it? Do you honestly believe what CCC did was fair on CCFC? Do you given your taxpayers argument not think selling the lease extension after the ricoh sale meant the taxpayer missed out? Should the CCC not have to explain that? I get the impression people want JR2 dropped so the council are not shown up to be as bad as sisu. That morally and legally they are made of the same fibre.

You make a few decent points there SkyBlueZack, i will take your last point first.
I am sure most don't give a flying fuck about the JR2 other than that it is following the modus operandi of Sisu in engaging litigation at every opportunity. I have lost count of the times that they have ended up on the wrong end of the verdict. The council have been totally unsupportive of CCFC and I am wondering why that is? Is it because the owners are cunts or is it because the owners are genuinely stupid fools who have no concept of building and sustaining partnerships? Take your pick SBZ.
Yes I think that the council did fuck SIsu over and heres the thing I also believe if Wasps had not come along the council would have had to bend over and take one from Sisu but an alternative WAS found and I bet you that the council were so relieved. I think I get that despite it being to the detriment of CCFC.
You and others state that Wasps are the baddies here and I wish I could join you and others in accepting the black and white version you present. I really don't give a fuck about Wasps and really wish they were not here as the premier sporting club in our city but they are and scratch the surface SBZ and you will find why they are here and you will be distressed to find that is not because of CCC, it is because Sisu, and through them sadly CCFC, were out manovered.
The shit does pre date Sisu and I don't put all the blame on them for that reason but they are the main protagonists in this scenario and still bodies refuse to deal with them at every step. Have you asked yourself why?

 

[dongonzalos]

Would the higgs have been under financial pressure? Or would ACL have been under financial pressure? Were ACL not already under pressure as only the extortionate rent was keeping the thing going. Would they have lost more money selling to higgs or wasps? Wasps paid 2.77m for 250 years. Sisu 'charitably offered' 2m for 50 years. (See the basis of JR2 right there).
Was the plan for ACL to go bust? Was it not to devalue the loan? Although yes bust would have been preferential for sisu.
Want wasps to go bust or go back to London? Fans suffer? You mean all the new franchise fans who only follow them because of top class rugby, or action replays on the scoreboard. Let's not forget majority of the fans are from cv postcodes. Don't attempt to make out the lifelong fans would be devastated. They lost majority of the lifelong fans when they moved here in a decision you defend. So look at yourself on that one.
A legally binding contract that was a noose around are neck. Putting aside the rent cost. There was no access to revenue and a council veto. No higgs veto though strangely. The club should have bought the revenue rights you all scream. Well they enquired once and we're quoted 24m. That's more than the council put in for revenue access for a company reliant on CCFC. Out of interest where would the 24m have gone?
It would appear some are ok with the club being held to ransom by CCC and wasps as they don't like sisu. That in turn also happy with the club being sidelined as sisu own us.
Regarding dropping the legal action. If you believe something is unfair. That you were not treated the same as others. Would you not challenge it? Do you honestly believe what CCC did was fair on CCFC? Do you given your taxpayers argument not think selling the lease extension after the ricoh sale meant the taxpayer missed out? Should the CCC not have to explain that? I get the impression people want JR2 dropped so the council are not shown up to be as bad as sisu. That morally and legally they are made of the same fibre.

All of the above is a long winded way of saying exactly as I said previously surrounded by lots of excuses.

Some wanted ACL bust. Which was half owned by a council and children's charity
Some were happy with breaking contracts.
Some accepted the blackmail of our club getting taken to another town.
Some now want Wasps to go bust and their fans to suffer.
All in the name of 'what's good for ccfc'
And finally some of the same people think it would be morally wrong to ask SISU to stop suing the people they are asking for help from. Despite that we all know that would be good for CCFC

So yes hypocritical jokers.,

Every Cov fan should be asking for this action to be dropped so true mediation can happen.
The action will only harm not help the club.

 

[Astute]

Would the higgs have been under financial pressure? Or would ACL have been under financial pressure? Were ACL not already under pressure as only the extortionate rent was keeping the thing going. Would they have lost more money selling to higgs or wasps? Wasps paid 2.77m for 250 years. Sisu 'charitably offered' 2m for 50 years. (See the basis of JR2 right there).
Was the plan for ACL to go bust? Was it not to devalue the loan? Although yes bust would have been preferential for sisu.
Want wasps to go bust or go back to London? Fans suffer? You mean all the new franchise fans who only follow them because of top class rugby, or action replays on the scoreboard. Let's not forget majority of the fans are from cv postcodes. Don't attempt to make out the lifelong fans would be devastated. They lost majority of the lifelong fans when they moved here in a decision you defend. So look at yourself on that one.
A legally binding contract that was a noose around are neck. Putting aside the rent cost. There was no access to revenue and a council veto. No higgs veto though strangely. The club should have bought the revenue rights you all scream. Well they enquired once and we're quoted 24m. That's more than the council put in for revenue access for a company reliant on CCFC. Out of interest where would the 24m have gone?
It would appear some are ok with the club being held to ransom by CCC and wasps as they don't like sisu. That in turn also happy with the club being sidelined as sisu own us.
Regarding dropping the legal action. If you believe something is unfair. That you were not treated the same as others. Would you not challenge it? Do you honestly believe what CCC did was fair on CCFC? Do you given your taxpayers argument not think selling the lease extension after the ricoh sale meant the taxpayer missed out? Should the CCC not have to explain that? I get the impression people want JR2 dropped so the council are not shown up to be as bad as sisu. That morally and legally they are made of the same fibre.

Points made are very one sided but valid points made.

One problem though. Are you happy that nobody including CRFC will talk about the future of our club and all for a court case that is for the benefit solely for SISU share holders and not about getting any information? The same court case that will most probably fail as usual.

If there was any chance of our club benefitting in any way I would be for it. But we know that it won't. It is all about loss limitation for SISU. Yet some think that I should be delighted that it is happening. And while it is going on my football club goes lower and lower.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

All of the above is a long winded way of saying exactly as I said previously surrounded by lots of excuses.

Some wanted ACL bust. Which was half owned by a council and children's charity
Some were happy with breaking contracts.
Some accepted the blackmail of our club getting taken to another town.
Some now want Wasps to go bust and their fans to suffer.
All in the name of 'what's good for ccfc'
And finally some of the same people think it would be morally wrong to ask SISU to stop suing the people they are asking for help from. Despite that we all know that would be good for CCFC

So yes hypocritical jokers.,

Every Cov fan should be asking for this action to be dropped so true mediation can happen.
The action will only harm not help the club.

It's not saying exactly as you said at all. You stated things which I countered. Your not worth engaging in conversation with.

 

[Astute]

It's not saying exactly as you said at all. You stated things which I countered. Your not worth engaging in conversation with.

Why not take time to reply to those who replied to you?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Points made are very one sided but valid points made.

One problem though. Are you happy that nobody including CRFC will talk about the future of our club and all for a court case that is for the benefit solely for SISU share holders and not about getting any information? The same court case that will most probably fail as usual.

If there was any chance of our club benefitting in any way I would be for it. But we know that it won't. It is all about loss limitation for SISU. Yet some think that I should be delighted that it is happening. And while it is going on my football club goes lower and lower.

One sided? Which would mean dongonzalos original points were one sided? Yet people are falling over themselves to like his posts and post of the year (SBK). Does this not validate the opinion that fans just want to shout and rant sisu out? That they are not interested in factual information? CRFC have said they will attend mediation? They have said they have a ground share as a possibility. They haven't given timescales, long term or short term?
If the court case is won by sisu and they sell the club, is that not benefit the club? Not saying they will win.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Why not take time to reply to those who replied to you?

I did in my initial post with dongo. His reply was I had said exactly the same but long winded. Clearly missing the length of his own posts recently. Also clearly missing I'd made different points and an explanation. He clearly doesn't want to engage in debate either. Just wants to regurgitate the same lines. I have replied to you above.

 

[torchomatic]

Amazing isn't it?

I think you are missing the point of how a council have been driven tobegavjng in this way.

Ah, the old "backed into a corner" bollocks.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

You make a few decent points there SkyBlueZack, i will take your last point first.
I am sure most don't give a flying fuck about the JR2 other than that it is following the modus operandi of Sisu in engaging litigation at every opportunity. I have lost count of the times that they have ended up on the wrong end of the verdict. The council have been totally unsupportive of CCFC and I am wondering why that is? Is it because the owners are cunts or is it because the owners are genuinely stupid fools who have no concept of building and sustaining partnerships? Take your pick SBZ.
Yes I think that the council did fuck SIsu over and heres the thing I also believe if Wasps had not come along the council would have had to bend over and take one from Sisu but an alternative WAS found and I bet you that the council were so relieved. I think I get that despite it being to the detriment of CCFC.
You and others state that Wasps are the baddies here and I wish I could join you and others in accepting the black and white version you present. I really don't give a fuck about Wasps and really wish they were not here as the premier sporting club in our city but they are and scratch the surface SBZ and you will find why they are here and you will be distressed to find that is not because of CCC, it is because Sisu, and through them sadly CCFC, were out manovered.
The shit does pre date Sisu and I don't put all the blame on them for that reason but they are the main protagonists in this scenario and still bodies refuse to deal with them at every step. Have you asked yourself why?

You talk of sisu being unable to build relationships. Yet at the end you acknowledge the problems with the council pre date sisu. So who is the common denominator here?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Do you think Sisu batter people in mediation too?

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

You talk of sisu being unable to build relationships. Yet at the end you acknowledge the problems with the council pre date sisu. So who is the common denominator here?

Sorry SBZ, I can't have made myself clear. I meant that the shit with CCFC pre dates Sisu.
If you wish to view that as the councils issue then go ahead.

 

[dongonzalos]

Points made are very one sided but valid points made.

One problem though. Are you happy that nobody including CRFC will talk about the future of our club and all for a court case that is for the benefit solely for SISU share holders and not about getting any information? The same court case that will most probably fail as usual.

If there was any chance of our club benefitting in any way I would be for it. But we know that it won't. It is all about loss limitation for SISU. Yet some think that I should be delighted that it is happening. And while it is going on my football club goes lower and lower.

The very same people who previously had the view whatever is good for CCFC should happen. Whatever impact it has on anyone else. If you are a Cov fan only CCFC should matter.
Now apparently not, we should draw the moral line at upholding SISU's right to batter people in court. You couldn't make it up. Very strange. Kind of makes you realise bit all comes down to taking sides as oppose to genuinely backing up the view whatever is good for CCFC should happen.

 

[martcov]

Should have the talks in Cannes, half the council would turn up then.

Me too.. it's nice down there...

 

[Grendel]

Not bad coming from the biggest SISU apologist.

Never apologised for them as proved by the fact you've never find a single post to prove it.

 

[Grendel]

Ah, the old "backed into a corner" bollocks.

They've been sprinting to the anti CCFC corner for years and many on here are cheering them all the way.

 

[rondog1973]

Gained an anecdotal insight (from a reliable source) recently into the modus operandi of Tim Fisher.

A friend of mines son in law is a Web page designer. He was approached by Fisher with regard to creating a Web page for a company/service he was involved in. The guy creates the page, shows it to Fisher (who's impressed) and presents him with the bill for his services (circa £800).

Fisher responds with (and I'm assured this is a genuine quote) "let's be grown up about this" I'll pay you when the company you created the page for starts making money.

The guy ended up pulling the page from the server....

 

[torchomatic]

They've been sprinting to the anti CCFC corner for years and many on here are cheering them all the way.

Waving the flag for the local council. What have we all sunk too?

 

[torchomatic]

Gained an anecdotal insight (from a reliable source) recently into the modus operandi of Tim Fisher.

A friend of mines son in law is a Web page designer. He was approached by Fisher with regard to creating a Web page for a company/service he was involved in. The guy creates the page, shows it to Fisher (who's impressed) and presents him with the bill for his services (circa £800).

Fisher responds with (and I'm assured this is a genuine quote) "let's be grown up about this" I'll pay you when the company you created the page for starts making money.

The guy ended up pulling the page from the server....

What?! Fisher's a complete twat? Well, he had me fooled...

 

[rondog1973]

What?! Fisher's a complete twat. Well, he had me fooled...

Not hard to see why people won't deal with or talk to he or Sisu on the basis of stories such as this would you not say?

 

[torchomatic]

Not hard to see why people won't deal with or talk to he or Sisu on the basis of stories such as this would you not say?

Yes i would say. However SISU are here. The Council don't have to deal with them, of course, but it could mean us moving out of Coventry if they don't which why i find some of the comments here a little weird as we are all City supporters. Not your post, to clarify. Maybe the council don't 'have' to talk to City and don't want to as they have a shiny new franchise toy to crow about.

Mediation got us back from Northampton, so mediation could ultimately ensure our future in the city. I thought we'd all welcome that. Seems not.

 

[Fergusons_Beard]

I think most people have forgotten the share of sale to Tesco that CCC should have paid to CCFC which they conveniently forgot and then denied they had received it.

Club at that time could have really used that money.

THAT shows that the antipathy towards the club started way before any legal proceedings.....

Wake up!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

Yes i would say. However SISU are here. The Council don't have to deal with them, of course, but it could mean us moving out of Coventry if they don't which why i find some of the comments here a little weird as we are all City supporters. Not your post, to clarify. Maybe the council don't 'have' to talk to City and don't want to as they have a shiny new franchise toy to crow about.

Mediation got us back from Northampton, so mediation could ultimately ensure our future in the city. I thought we'd all welcome that. Seems not.

I welcome anything that puts us on the road to salvation from the horrid never ending descent we find ourselves in. Mediation, new owners, new impetus, redemption from the Sisu years of "fuck you" business acumen.
I thought all of us would want that? Seems not.

 

[torchomatic]

I welcome anything that puts us on the road to salvation from the horrid never ending descent we find ourselves in. Mediation, new owners, new impetus, redemption from the Sisu years of "fuck you" business acumen.
I thought all of us would want that? Seems not.

No one wants SISU to stay. No one.

 

[martcov]

Yes i would say. However SISU are here. The Council don't have to deal with them, of course, but it could mean us moving out of Coventry if they don't which why i find some of the comments here a little weird as we are all City supporters. Not your post, to clarify. Maybe the council don't 'have' to talk to City and don't want to as they have a shiny new franchise toy to crow about.

Mediation got us back from Northampton, so mediation could ultimately ensure our future in the city. I thought we'd all welcome that. Seems not.

Mediation and the fact that Joy had her back to the wall as Northampton wasn't working. The mediation involved Joy. Without Joy being involved there can be no mediation with the council. CCC should not negotiate with Tim. It's all about JR2. Whether or not CCC lose or not, it takes up time and personal. Same goes for Wasps. There should be some trade off with Joy. Drop the JR and CCC will offer active support for Tim's project ( whatever it may be ).

 

[torchomatic]

Mediation and the fact that Joy had her back to the wall as Northampton wasn't working. The mediation involved Joy. Without Joy being involved there can be no mediation with the council. CCC should not negotiate with Tim. It's all about JR2. Whether or not CCC lose or not, it takes up time and personal. Same goes for Wasps. There should be some trade off with Joy. Drop the JR and CCC will offer active support for Tim's project ( whatever it may be ).

I.totally agree JR2 should be dropped. They should sit round the table then and ask rhe question.

 

[NortonSkyBlue]

I think most people have forgotten the share of sale to Tesco that CCC should have paid to CCFC which they conveniently forgot and then denied they had received it.

Club at that time could have really used that money.

THAT shows that the antipathy towards the club started way before any legal proceedings.....

Wake up!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok Ferguson's beard, let's play your game for a moment.
If the council never paid CCFC it was due then you are indeed correct.
Are you so involved with every step of this shit since 1999 and you have evidence that the council got money that was supposed to be passed on to CCFC?
Are you aware that all councils are audited for discrepancies in the public purse?
Are you aware that there has not been one substantiated claim to support what you are alleging?
Please, this is a game changer for me. Show me and I will wake up as you asked.