The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (264 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
USD will strengthen as more money comes in to invest at the higher interest rates. This will make imports to the USA cheaper and in the long term help other countries - but it's not a big factor and will take a time. The BoE, I think, will raise GBP interest rates back to 0.25% soon as the expected recession didn't arrive - the UK is still growing and inflation is picking up. Their principal mandate is to keep inflation in a band around 2.5%.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Support for Brexit 'soars' as Theresa May triggers Article 50
Support for Brexit has soared as Theresa May triggered Article 50, kick-starting Britain’s exit from the European Union.
While the support was split 52 per cent - 48 per cent in favour of leaving in the referendum, support for going ahead with Brexit is now significantly higher, YouGov figures suggest.
Compared with the 52 per cent who voted Leave last year, the data reveals that 69 per cent now say Britain's divorce from the EU should go ahead.
Those who do not support Britain leaving the EU, and say the Government should ignore the result of the referendum or seek to overturn it, make up just 21 per cent of those surveyed.
And 25 per cent of people voted Remain but now feel that the Government should carry out the process in the wake of the referendum result.
Support for Brexit has soared as Theresa May triggered Article 50, kick-starting Britain’s exit from the European Union.
While the support was split 52 per cent - 48 per cent in favour of leaving in the referendum, support for going ahead with Brexit is now significantly higher, YouGov figures suggest.
Compared with the 52 per cent who voted Leave last year, the data reveals that 69 per cent now say Britain's divorce from the EU should go ahead.
Those who do not support Britain leaving the EU, and say the Government should ignore the result of the referendum or seek to overturn it, make up just 21 per cent of those surveyed.
And 25 per cent of people voted Remain but now feel that the Government should carry out the process in the wake of the referendum result.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
None of which means they think Brexit is a great idea imo...just that more of those voting remain initially are coming to terms with it. As one that voted remain...I think that's a good thing. Personally I accepted it immediately & felt we just had to get on with the job.
The winners are those individuals (not corporations) that see an opportunity in this & capitalise on it. I'd love to be one of them!
...onwards & upwards PUSB
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
A truely memorable day for me personally. I was a passionate leave voter and I have celebrated today with much joy. Even some tears of joy. I understand not everyone voted the same way as me but I see what Dutchman posted earlier. The latest yougov poll. I've seen it myself first hand also. More and more people are at least starting to accept the result. I think that's a good thing. You don't have to agree with it but accepting a result is the start to move forward. Unlike cretins like Alexander Campbell who don't believe brexit will happen and it CAN be stopped. Idiot.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Clueless Clegg looked so miserable tonight must be wondering where his next gravy train will be now the European dream has gone.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
A very historic day, regardless of the outcome of "Brexit" and your stance on the vote.
There's no reason why this can't be a modern revolution, and propel Britain into a great economic giant as we have done so many times before.
Time will tell, but in 50+ years time, this is actually a key moment in history!
There's no reason why this can't be a modern revolution, and propel Britain into a great economic giant as we have done so many times before.
Time will tell, but in 50+ years time, this is actually a key moment in history!
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more. This could be a really global Britain. The EU is failing, it doesn't work. Many around Europe are celebrating we have left namely Denmark who are more eurosceptic than Britain. Can you imagine a free trade deal with America and importing their fantastic cars to this country or free trade with Australia for their fantastic wine. It's endless. They want to do business with us. This is why we will get a free trade deal with EU. They have to give us one else their biggest export market in the world goes shopping elsewhere costing bmw workers thousands of jobs and Mercedes and Citroen etc. We can go and make a free trade deal with America after we leave. We can't do it currently.
The EU is a protectionist customs union which might have been great 40 years ago but now frankly in a global world it simply doesn't work.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Agreed, it's an exciting time for new economic growth around the world.
To be honest, minus Germany, most of the EU IMO (Spain, Greece etc) rely on tourism. i.e us "pastey English going there and spending money on sun, booze and fags"
I really do believe the EU needs us, more than we need them, IMO of course.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Odd definition of soared. 52% voted leave but the poll you've linked to now shows 44% responding as 'I support Britain leaving the EU".
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
Well, as always, it depends which way you read it.
It says 21% do not support Britain leaving the EU. If you just use those figures, it seems support has soared....
Is it those good old "active" and "passive" coming into play
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
While I voted, Britain needs to move towards being a net exporter, not just being able to import more cheap stuff. Move away from credit into added value.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
If I was losing my rights to live and work in any EU country, I'd be fuming. Can't be bothered with the same arguments so will leave it there and look forward to revisiting in a few years.
I guess it depends where you are starting from if you are in one of these downtrodden countries then maybe but if you are in an elite country why worry too much
.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I agree.
What I find ironic is the argument I could have bought into (allowing state aid, adding import tariffs to protect home industry) is one that wasn't made during the campaign.
It won't be a policy enacted, either.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
If I was losing my rights to live and work in any EU country, I'd be fuming. Can't be bothered with the same arguments so will leave it there and look forward to revisiting in a few years.
If you have something to offer, you'll always be let in to any country. Skilled people and doctors/nurses etc will be allowed to come here. People looking for hand outs, without putting into the system, won't be. Hopefully anyway.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Someone just posted this article on Facebook, saying it was the best written one on Brexit. I couldn't disagree more.
Subscribe to read
Google
What are your opinions on it?
*Note, wouldn't let me post the link, but it is the 'brexiteers must lose' one.
Subscribe to read
What are your opinions on it?
*Note, wouldn't let me post the link, but it is the 'brexiteers must lose' one.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The problem is, that like all of the doom-laden articles, they seem to be written on the absolute assumption that:
1. Britain won't trade with the EU anymore
2. There will be significant tariffs on trade with the EU in any case
That said, some of the points he's made are true. I'm a leave voter but it definitely isn't leave at all costs, we need a strong relationship with the other EU states. There will be give and take but I see it as neither the end of the world or the beginning of a new dawn.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our T&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights.
Subscribe to read
On March 29, the British government is to notify the EU of its intention to leave. This will be a big moment in a tragedy; it will be a tragedy for the UK, but it will also be a tragedy for Europe.
It is an appalling way to celebrate the EU’s 60th anniversary.
Even if the exit negotiations go well, the decision to leave the EU will have huge consequences for the UK. Economically, it will lose favourable access to by far its biggest market. Politically, it will create great stresses inside the UK and Ireland. Strategically, it will eject the UK from its role in EU councils. The UK will be poorer, more divided and less influential. Brexiters will deny all this. They are wrong. The evidence on modern trade is clear: distance is of enormous importance. The supply chains that link physical goods and services together work best over short distances. The models on which Brexiters rely ignore this reality.
This is also why the creation of the single market required substantial regulatory harmonisation, which allows relatively frictionless cross-border trade. Brexiters will discover, too, that all trade deals impose constraints on national autonomy and the more market-opening the deal, the tighter the constraints. Brexiters will also learn that geography is political destiny. The UK can never be a non-European country. It will always be intimately affected by developments on the continent. But now, faced with a threatening Russia, an indifferent US, a chaotic Middle East, a rising China and the global threats of climate change, it is removing its voice from the system that organises its continent.
The UK is no longer in the 19th century. It is in the 21st. Isolation will not be splendid — it will be isolation. The departure of the UK is also a tragedy for Europe. The UK has long been the standard-bearer for liberal economics and democratic politics. It is one of the continent’s two strongest military powers. It has close links to the English-speaking countries. It has a global perspective. It has, at least until now, been pragmatic. Its views on what would benefit the EU (the single market and enlargement) and what would harm it (the single currency) were right.
Only someone ignorant of history would dream that Europe would be more prosperous, stable, influential, democratic and liberal if the EU shattered into 28 national pieces. The system of nation states has repeatedly proved unstable. In this case, with the US increasingly withdrawn, the EU’s collapse might lead to a struggle for hegemony between Germany and Russia or, worse, a pact between them at the expense of weaker neighbours. If the EU does survive, as I hope, Germany will dominate. The Germans do not want this. Why do the British? Yet Brexit is going to happen, thanks to David Cameron’s folly in agreeing to the referendum, mismanaging the negotiations and bungling the terms of the referendum itself. Going through with Brexit is not a constitutional necessity; the referendum is not binding. But it is a political one: the Conservative party would shatter without it. But the mood of the negotiations and their outcome are still to be determined. We know they are going to be complex and difficult. We know that the process of withdrawal and deciding upon the details of a new relationship are not going to be completed inside two years. But we do not know how these negotiations will be approached.
This is not so true on the EU side, where priorities are clear, as on the UK side. Related article What is the great repeal bill and how will it work? Process by which the UK leaves the EU will have huge consequences for business Reaching a deal is a necessity. This is most obviously true for economic reasons: seeking to obtain better market access from relatively unimportant markets, while suffering a large deterioration in the terms of access to the UK’s most important markets, would be ludicrous. Failure to reach a deal on money owed, treatment of persons, shared institutions, the nature of future trade arrangements and the transition to them would poison future relations. Britain would be the bigger loser: the impact on Scotland might be terminal for the UK. Yet the effect of a brutal divorce on the EU would also be large. If a deal is to be reached, the UK, as the weaker party will need to make concessions, starting with the money owed. That is not only the sensible thing to do. It is the right thing to do. The country has obligations that come from more than four decades of membership. As a civilised and trustworthy country it must fulfil them. This means, in turn, that the prime minister must be prepared to make a stand against those who desire no deal at all. The EU’s negotiating position is a reasonable one.
The UK must be willing to reciprocate. It must make concessions to ensure a harmonious and co-operative relationship in future. Article 50: defusing the Brexit time bomb Play video Theresa May has stated that “I am clear that no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain”. Let us hope that she does not believe this. Failing to reach a deal would be bad for everybody. Mrs May has no mandate for the threat she has made of turning the UK into a low-tax, minimum-regulation country. The internal divisions such a strategy would bring would make those created by the referendum look like a mock battle compared with a real one. The UK certainly needs a deal, but so does the EU. The tragedy would be far worse without one. I no longer hope that Brexit can be avoided. That does not mean it needs to be welcomed. Still less does it mean that it does not matter how it happens. The prime minister must reach a deal that preserves as much as possible of the UK’s economic, political and strategic relations with the EU. History will judge her by how much of this she achieves. [email protected]
Subscribe to read
On March 29, the British government is to notify the EU of its intention to leave. This will be a big moment in a tragedy; it will be a tragedy for the UK, but it will also be a tragedy for Europe.
It is an appalling way to celebrate the EU’s 60th anniversary.
Even if the exit negotiations go well, the decision to leave the EU will have huge consequences for the UK. Economically, it will lose favourable access to by far its biggest market. Politically, it will create great stresses inside the UK and Ireland. Strategically, it will eject the UK from its role in EU councils. The UK will be poorer, more divided and less influential. Brexiters will deny all this. They are wrong. The evidence on modern trade is clear: distance is of enormous importance. The supply chains that link physical goods and services together work best over short distances. The models on which Brexiters rely ignore this reality.
This is also why the creation of the single market required substantial regulatory harmonisation, which allows relatively frictionless cross-border trade. Brexiters will discover, too, that all trade deals impose constraints on national autonomy and the more market-opening the deal, the tighter the constraints. Brexiters will also learn that geography is political destiny. The UK can never be a non-European country. It will always be intimately affected by developments on the continent. But now, faced with a threatening Russia, an indifferent US, a chaotic Middle East, a rising China and the global threats of climate change, it is removing its voice from the system that organises its continent.
The UK is no longer in the 19th century. It is in the 21st. Isolation will not be splendid — it will be isolation. The departure of the UK is also a tragedy for Europe. The UK has long been the standard-bearer for liberal economics and democratic politics. It is one of the continent’s two strongest military powers. It has close links to the English-speaking countries. It has a global perspective. It has, at least until now, been pragmatic. Its views on what would benefit the EU (the single market and enlargement) and what would harm it (the single currency) were right.
Only someone ignorant of history would dream that Europe would be more prosperous, stable, influential, democratic and liberal if the EU shattered into 28 national pieces. The system of nation states has repeatedly proved unstable. In this case, with the US increasingly withdrawn, the EU’s collapse might lead to a struggle for hegemony between Germany and Russia or, worse, a pact between them at the expense of weaker neighbours. If the EU does survive, as I hope, Germany will dominate. The Germans do not want this. Why do the British? Yet Brexit is going to happen, thanks to David Cameron’s folly in agreeing to the referendum, mismanaging the negotiations and bungling the terms of the referendum itself. Going through with Brexit is not a constitutional necessity; the referendum is not binding. But it is a political one: the Conservative party would shatter without it. But the mood of the negotiations and their outcome are still to be determined. We know they are going to be complex and difficult. We know that the process of withdrawal and deciding upon the details of a new relationship are not going to be completed inside two years. But we do not know how these negotiations will be approached.
This is not so true on the EU side, where priorities are clear, as on the UK side. Related article What is the great repeal bill and how will it work? Process by which the UK leaves the EU will have huge consequences for business Reaching a deal is a necessity. This is most obviously true for economic reasons: seeking to obtain better market access from relatively unimportant markets, while suffering a large deterioration in the terms of access to the UK’s most important markets, would be ludicrous. Failure to reach a deal on money owed, treatment of persons, shared institutions, the nature of future trade arrangements and the transition to them would poison future relations. Britain would be the bigger loser: the impact on Scotland might be terminal for the UK. Yet the effect of a brutal divorce on the EU would also be large. If a deal is to be reached, the UK, as the weaker party will need to make concessions, starting with the money owed. That is not only the sensible thing to do. It is the right thing to do. The country has obligations that come from more than four decades of membership. As a civilised and trustworthy country it must fulfil them. This means, in turn, that the prime minister must be prepared to make a stand against those who desire no deal at all. The EU’s negotiating position is a reasonable one.
The UK must be willing to reciprocate. It must make concessions to ensure a harmonious and co-operative relationship in future. Article 50: defusing the Brexit time bomb Play video Theresa May has stated that “I am clear that no deal for Britain is better than a bad deal for Britain”. Let us hope that she does not believe this. Failing to reach a deal would be bad for everybody. Mrs May has no mandate for the threat she has made of turning the UK into a low-tax, minimum-regulation country. The internal divisions such a strategy would bring would make those created by the referendum look like a mock battle compared with a real one. The UK certainly needs a deal, but so does the EU. The tragedy would be far worse without one. I no longer hope that Brexit can be avoided. That does not mean it needs to be welcomed. Still less does it mean that it does not matter how it happens. The prime minister must reach a deal that preserves as much as possible of the UK’s economic, political and strategic relations with the EU. History will judge her by how much of this she achieves. [email protected]
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
You better hope that the current trend of EU nurses and midwives reverses then
That is unless you are happy with those to come in from elsewhere with lesser qualifications.Personally, I can't wait to get out and live in the EUSSR....I will post some pictures up showing the horrors for you all too.
Not sure what handouts has to do with the EU migrants, but oh well.
I also see that it looks like the predictions of the EU bending over as the British enjoy French cheese and Italian wine have been proven to be utter bollocks.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
This nonsense is predicated on the assumption that negotiations will fail miserably, we'll see. I'm much more optimistic.
The person who failed miserably is Cameron, his pre referendum deal was useless so Brexit happened.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
You better hope that the current trend of EU nurses and midwives reverses then
Personally, I can't wait to get out and live in the EUSSR....I will post some pictures up showing the horrors for you all too.
Not sure what handouts has to do with the EU migrants, but oh well.
I also see that it looks like the predictions of the EU bending over as the British enjoy French cheese and Italian wine have been proven to be utter bollocks.
No, but there are many people that come to the UK, work hard, are good at what they do and contribute to society and the economy. A Polish nurse who looked after me when I had an operation was very good, as was the Spanish and Caribbean night nurses.
This is not exclusive to "EU migrants". I hope that those able to work, British or Foreign, will be told to work, rather than just take the JSA etc. I've been working since I was 15, excluding paper rounds at 12/13 etc, and don't see any reason why able bodied people are allowed to live on the doll as a career (through choice).
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I fully agree and I'm sure most people wherever they are from will agree. Just to point out that I fully supported my partner when we first came back to Italy and she was unable to work due to her English not being a C1 level...she was B2. Without freedom of movement I doubt she would have helped 100s of women deliver babies as we wouldn't have been able to live in the UK in a post Brexit society.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
To be fair, Cameron went all in, with a pair of Deuces. Just shows how arrogant he was.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
I do hate this divide.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It isn't going to get any better any time soon...that is the worst part of this whole thing for me.
Apologies, I edited my post.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Sorry, this confused me, why wouldn't her English be good enough in Italy? :S
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
No, I mean the "You voted leave, you must be a fascist", "You voted remain, you must be more intelligent/superior".
I like to stay as central as I can personally. Practical, realistic and able to take on new information, not just read the black and white.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Sorry, I meant England.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Did she take further qualifications to get the the required standard or...?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yes she took an exam while over here to reach the required level. There has been such a shortage that since then that she has worked with people who were even worse than when she first came here and even those not even registered with the NMC....there is already a huge shortage of midwives and a lot of her colleagues from the EU are also looking to leave. The worst part is that the majority of those coming from the EU have done the equivalent of a masters degree and are more qualified than those trained here.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about British expats in Spain for example, when they buy/build their dream home, then it gets demolished to make way for Spanish citizens?
This is to SickBoy and Martcov, but anyone feel free to answer
I've heard about houses being demolished due to roads being built but not for Spanish people to have homes? Do you have a link?
Why is it EU migrants and British expats, BTW.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry? Edit: It was just to emphasise about British people, nothing sinister.
Your first question, my friend who lived in Spain most of his life, and his family have property there, told me that the Spanish government ultimately own the land, unless you get certain permissions/legal documents. They also have the right to evict "foreigners" for Spanish citizens. He/I may be wrong, but he seemed pretty clued up o it. (I haven't researched it myself)
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