Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (8 Viewers)

[ccfc92]

Without somebody pumping in millions that they never want back I don't think we will be in the Premier League unless there is a huge stroke of luck.

I'd take that for a club I felt part of. Wouldn't you?

As long as we built a club, with a winning mentality and competed, I wouldn't care what league we are in.

I'd be happy with promotions to L1/C'Ship, play offs, cup runs etc. Premier League would be nice, but just anything more than mid-table/relegation battles that we have every season....

That's why the Checkatrade was so important to me, I saw CCFC actually achieve something!

 

---

[idm1975]

Did they pay a quid for the same?

Huh?? What are you not getting?

 

[Nick]

As long as we built a club, with a winning mentality and competed, I wouldn't care what league we are in.

I'd be happy with promotions to L1/C'Ship, play offs, cup runs etc. Premier League would be nice, but just anything more than mid-table/relegation battles that we have every season....

That's why the Checkatrade was so important to me, I saw CCFC actually achieve something!

That's the thing. Hammer the community / local businesses etc, schools, universities and build up advertising. Have no shame in what you advertise, not so much sell your soul but basically be clever about it and revenues go up.

Talk to fans openly about the plan, explain it's going to be break even but the club are working as hard as they can to keep building. Make them feel involved and important and ticket sales go up, shirt sales go back up.

Before you know it you don't need to sell a player every season.

Be very clever like Portsmouth and fan fund / get sponsors / get grants and build a training centre complex that's community based. What good is Ryton for us at 8pm? Have a look at places like Finbars and even the Higgs centre for inspiration. Obviously the public won't be strolling around watching the players train but that can be sorted. It could be a place for functions, birthday parties, wedding receptions, "an evening with events" etc etc. All valuable income to CCFC as well.

How many people with kids would have a CCFC birthday party at the training base where Sky Blue Sam visits? I wanted one for mine and asked both the club and the Ricoh at the time and all that I could have was a function room at the Ricoh which was about £400 and I had to pay a tenner per kid for nuggets and chips. Buy a CCFC bouncy castle, crank up that speed shot and put on a buffet and plenty of parents would go for that.

Work with the Former players and put on an evening with dinner, £50 for a meal and an evening with a random player. Get 150 people in there thats £7.5k, then you have the bar takings on top of that. I don't know much about the catering trade to say how much profit it would be etc but even if it was £4k profit for that night and you have 10 a year that's £40k you didn't have before and you also have people feeling part of the club etc etc.

There is so much you can do just by owning the CCFC brand and thinking outside the box.

Christ, I am sounding like Trump and make America Great Again!

 

[Nick]

Huh?? What are you not getting?

What aren't you getting? That's more relevant.

SISU paying a £1 isn't the same as what Hoffman is trying to buy is it?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

No, that's how it is at the minute.

The minute they took over there should be a massive charm offensive, I'd want to see Elliott in every business in the city shaking hands trying to flog advertising and sorting out corporate deals with them for tickets. Get into the Unis for a partnership, get in with Cov Rugby.

Get down the business parks and look for the big employers, places like Thompson at Westwood Park and even Camping and Caravanning etc. Send Sky Blue Sam in, give the staff a voucher for a fiver for a ticket and see if they want to sponsor a player or a match etc. Get 3 or 4 sky blue sam suits made and hammer the shit of the community. Businesses, schools, charity events etc. Who are wasps?

the PR would be piss easy and it's what others have played on. "we aren't SISU".

All them are pretty solid ideas, and you have given some more good and some that are not so good ideas but credit to you for trying to think of ways forward.

But I will point you to the highlighted sentence. You have slammed Hofmans bid because according to you it is undervalued because what you are receiving from sisu is a great base to build from and not broken according to you. Yet you have then gone onto give lots of ideas as to how they could fix the club if they gained ownership, you've mentioned training grounds, stadiums, pr, break even as well as other things. I don't agree with all your points about how they would go forward but that's a different conversation.

all your ideas are what they can fix going forward, not things or infrastructures that are in place now. Implying that in its current state it is broken and thus not a great base to build from. At best I suppose you could describe it as a clean slate to build on, not a great base.
.

 

[ccfc92]

That's the thing. Hammer the community / local businesses etc, schools, universities and build up advertising. Have no shame in what you advertise, not so much sell your soul but basically be clever about it and revenues go up.

Talk to fans openly about the plan, explain it's going to be break even but the club are working as hard as they can to keep building. Make them feel involved and important and ticket sales go up, shirt sales go back up.

Before you know it you don't need to sell a player every season.

Be very clever like Portsmouth and fan fund / get sponsors / get grants and build a training centre complex that's community based. What good is Ryton for us at 8pm? Have a look at places like Finbars and even the Higgs centre for inspiration. Obviously the public won't be strolling around watching the players train but that can be sorted. It could be a place for functions, birthday parties, wedding receptions, "an evening with events" etc etc. All valuable income to CCFC as well.

How many people with kids would have a CCFC birthday party at the training base where Sky Blue Sam visits? I wanted one for mine and asked both the club and the Ricoh at the time and all that I could have was a function room at the Ricoh which was about £400 and I had to pay a tenner per kid for nuggets and chips. Buy a CCFC bouncy castle, crank up that speed shot and put on a buffet and plenty of parents would go for that.

There is so much you can do just by owning the CCFC brand and thinking outside the box.

Christ, I am sounding like Trump and make America Great Again!

I fully get what you're saying, and agree.

My question to you, or anyone, why isn't CCFC/SISU doing this now? It's so simple, wouldn't cost much, would provide the "much needed revenues"....

 

[Nick]

I fully get what you're saying, and agree.

My question to you, or anyone, why isn't CCFC/SISU doing this now? It's so simple, wouldn't cost much, would provide the "much needed revenues"....

Because they are happy to just let things tick over as they are.

I've said it plenty of times that if there was no Fisher the club could be doing things like that under SISU. I have no idea what the marketing dept do all day.

Did another essay thread saying that somebody could do break even but with a different approach and get a completely different outcome.

 

[Nick]

All them are pretty solid ideas, and you have given some more good and some that are not so good ideas but credit to you for trying to think of ways forward.

But I will point you to the highlighted sentence. You have slammed Hofmans bid because according to you it is undervalued because what you are receiving from sisu is a great base to build from and not broken according to you. Yet you have then gone onto give lots of ideas as to how they could fix the club if they gained ownership, you've mentioned training grounds, stadiums, pr, break even as well as other things. I don't agree with all your points about how they would go forward but that's a different conversation.

all your ideas are what they can fix going forward, not things or infrastructures that are in place now. Implying that in its current state it is broken and thus not a great base to build from. At best I suppose you could describe it as a clean slate to build on, not a great base.
.

I'm not saying SISU are offering a great product and thanking them for it or anything like that. I am just saying that he's offering nowhere near enough to what the assets are worth, therefore SISU wouldn't even entertain it. I'd love for them to hand it over for £0 and wipe out all of the debt but I'm just being realistic.

In terms of now it really depends if he does a deal including Ryton or not, I'd personally still sell it and put that money towards something I said about the community and fan fund the rest.

For the stadium the first thing I would do is speak to actual developers and planners to see how much it was going to cost, speak to potential investors who would want to back it, think outside the box of ways to fund it. Once I had a good idea I'd use that idea to work out what I'd go to Wasps with and play hardball.

Again, I wouldn't be SISU and I'd have arse licked every local business, every school and every fan until they didn't need to buy bog roll. If they wanted to fuck about with CCFC then everybody would know about it They wouldn't be able to act the dick and just blame SISU then, I'd make sure there was the most outrage against them as physically possible and that bags of coke and rent boys would be found in a hotel room belonging to their directors.

 

[ccfc92]

Because they are happy to just let things tick over as they are.

I've said it plenty of times that if there was no Fisher the club could be doing things like that under SISU. I have no idea what the marketing dept do all day.

Did another essay thread saying that somebody could do break even but with a different approach and get a completely different outcome.

Why though? Why wouldn't you want your business to do better?

 

[Nick]

Why though? Why wouldn't you want your business to do better?

Because they aren't really arsed, the leaking money has been cut down so it doesn't cost them anything. They aren't fans and CCFC will be numbers on a spreadsheet to them.

I also think they don't have a clue what they are doing.

Again, I'd love for somebody else to be handed the club for nothing with no debt but it isn't going to happen is it.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I'm not saying SISU are offering a great product and thanking them for it or anything like that. I am just saying that he's offering nowhere near enough to what the assets are worth, therefore SISU wouldn't even entertain it. I'd love for them to hand it over for £0 and wipe out all of the debt but I'm just being realistic.

In terms of now it really depends if he does a deal including Ryton or not, I'd personally still sell it and put that money towards something I said about the community and fan fund the rest.

For the stadium the first thing I would do is speak to actual developers and planners to see how much it was going to cost, speak to potential investors who would want to back it, think outside the box of ways to fund it. Once I had a good idea I'd use that idea to work out what I'd go to Wasps with and play hardball.

Again, I wouldn't be SISU and I'd have arse licked every local business, every school and every fan until they didn't need to buy bog roll. If they wanted to fuck about with CCFC then everybody would know about it They wouldn't be able to act the dick and just blame SISU then, I'd make sure there was the most outrage against them as physically possible and that bags of coke and rent boys would be found in a hotel room belonging to their directors.

No one thinks they will hand it over for £0. If we are talking realistically no one is going to bid more than hofman has put them on the table for what they are selling. Which is why I did say earlier from there point they would be better to sell each individually than as a whole.

Some more good ideas and not so good ideas there, shows at the moment Sisu don't have much of a club to sell.

If Sisu went about being proactive with fixing the academy, stadium and many other problems (although I believe some of them are beyond repair but let's say they can be fixed) then they might get an offer nearer their valuation.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

What aren't you getting? That's more relevant.

SISU paying a £1 isn't the same as what Hoffman is trying to buy is it?

Exactly What others are trying to buy is less then what sisu got so should be cheaper.
When sisu got the club they were in a position to buy the lease if they so wished.
They faffed about beat all their customers so have lost over half of them.
Beat all others involved to the extent no one will speak to them so in reality it is now completely worthless.

It is only worth anything to a supporter that is why no one else wants it.
just my opinion of course but that is how I see it.

 

[Nick]

Exactly What others are trying to buy is less then what sisu got so should be cheaper.
When sisu got the club they were in a position to buy the lease if they so wished.
They faffed about beat all their customers so have lost over half of them.
Beat all others involved to the extent no one will speak to them so in reality it is now completely worthless.

It is only worth anything to a supporter that is why no one else wants it.
just my opinion of course but that is how I see it.

What they are trying to buy is completely different to what SISU bought isn't it?

 

[Nick]

No one thinks they will hand it over for £0. If we are talking realistically no one is going to bid more than hofman has put them on the table for what they are selling. Which is why I did say earlier from there point they would be better to sell each individually than as a whole.

Some more good ideas and not so good ideas there, shows at the moment Sisu don't have much of a club to sell.

If Sisu went about being proactive with fixing the academy, stadium and many other problems (although I believe some of them are beyond repair but let's say they can be fixed) then they might get an offer nearer their valuation.

If they fixed the issues then the valuation would just go up as they would be getting something different again. Therefore what they had to pay then would be completely different to what they do now.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

What they are trying to buy is completely different to what SISU bought isn't it?

Yes that is what I said.

 

[Nick]

Yes that is what I said.

It's not really comparable to what SISU paid then is it? It's a different situation that hoffman wants.

 

[Rodders1]

Sorry not read much of the last 30 ish pages - but are we thinking no news is good news at the mo?

 

[Brylowes]

If they fixed the issues then the valuation would just go up as they would be getting something different again. Therefore what they had to pay then would be completely different to what they do now.

Nick, genuine question, do you think it's in anyway likely or even possible for the fortunes Of
this club to turn a corner and start to improve, at any point in the future with SISU at the helm.

 

[Nick]

Nick, genuine question, do you think it's in anyway likely or even possible for the fortunes Of
this club to turn a corner and start to improve, at any point in the future with SISU at the helm.

Depends really, physically possible then yes. What's likely is I think we will just tick over.

 

[Brylowes]

Depends really, physically possible then yes. What's likely is I think we will just tick over.

But tick over whilst continuing to get smaller and lower?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

It's not really comparable to what SISU paid then is it? It's a different situation that hoffman wants.

because they have distressed it so badly they should really just cut their losses and walk away.
Anything they can get is a bonus it is really worth nothing.

 

[Nick]

No because they have distressed it so badly they should really just cut their losses and walk away.
Anything they can get is a bonus it is really worth nothing.

What hoffman wants to buy isn't worth nothing though is it? If he was taking on debts then I'd agree the up front stuff would go down to a £1 type deal.

I think this is a point that gets missed. Ryton has a value, players have a value. OSB has explained it better also.

Read these:

CCFC worth - by lecturer in football finance Liverpool

CCFC worth - by lecturer in football finance Liverpool

How can the assets be worth nil like Hoffman says? It's only worth nil if the debts outweigh the assets isn't it?

 

[Nick]

But tick over whilst continuing to get smaller and lower?

Hard to say, will soon find out when League 2 starts. I can personally see us top 8 - 10 next season in reality. I'd love to say we are going to blitz the league and I hope we do but I have learnt from being optimistic....

 

[Brylowes]

Hard to say, will soon find out when League 2 starts. I can personally see us top 8 - 10 next season in reality. I'd love to say we are going to blitz the league and I hope we do but I have learnt from being optimistic....

I agree but top 8-10 leaves us where we are but no doubt with a budget cut due to
Even smaller crowds and players of little value to sell on.
We just keep on going backwards in a sport where the whole point is to strive to
Move forwards, that's why people are giving up, there's nothing to get behind.
Our only hope is them leaving, but like you I just can't see anyway that's going to
Happen, we have well meaning supporters with a few quid who desperately want
To save the club but what they have ain't gonna come close........We are fucked.

 

[martcov]

That's the thing. Hammer the community / local businesses etc, schools, universities and build up advertising. Have no shame in what you advertise, not so much sell your soul but basically be clever about it and revenues go up.

Talk to fans openly about the plan, explain it's going to be break even but the club are working as hard as they can to keep building. Make them feel involved and important and ticket sales go up, shirt sales go back up.

Before you know it you don't need to sell a player every season.

Be very clever like Portsmouth and fan fund / get sponsors / get grants and build a training centre complex that's community based. What good is Ryton for us at 8pm? Have a look at places like Finbars and even the Higgs centre for inspiration. Obviously the public won't be strolling around watching the players train but that can be sorted. It could be a place for functions, birthday parties, wedding receptions, "an evening with events" etc etc. All valuable income to CCFC as well.

How many people with kids would have a CCFC birthday party at the training base where Sky Blue Sam visits? I wanted one for mine and asked both the club and the Ricoh at the time and all that I could have was a function room at the Ricoh which was about £400 and I had to pay a tenner per kid for nuggets and chips. Buy a CCFC bouncy castle, crank up that speed shot and put on a buffet and plenty of parents would go for that.

Work with the Former players and put on an evening with dinner, £50 for a meal and an evening with a random player. Get 150 people in there thats £7.5k, then you have the bar takings on top of that. I don't know much about the catering trade to say how much profit it would be etc but even if it was £4k profit for that night and you have 10 a year that's £40k you didn't have before and you also have people feeling part of the club etc etc.

There is so much you can do just by owning the CCFC brand and thinking outside the box.

Christ, I am sounding like Trump and make America Great Again!

Has Trump registered "make CCFC great again" as a trade mark yet? If not you could be on a winner.... ;-)

 

[idm1975]

What aren't you getting? That's more relevant.

SISU paying a £1 isn't the same as what Hoffman is trying to buy is it?

In what way?

 

[Nick]

In what way?

Have linked to where osb explained it better a couple of posts back.

It's not the same to compare it.

 

[skybluetony176]

What aren't you getting? That's more relevant.

SISU paying a £1 isn't the same as what Hoffman is trying to buy is it?

Don't think its that different. IIRC didn't the SISU takeover have add ons based on promotion to the premier league, some of the debt was wiped off and some of the debt was settled at a much lower value than what it stood at with limited debt carried forward?

They also got a championship squad and Ryton for their pound didn't they? Not to mention a much better starting point for rebuilding the club.

It's probably not wise to compare the GH bid with the deal that originally brought SISU here. You may find it stacks up as equal maybe even better.

 

[Nick]

Don't think its that different. IIRC didn't the SISU takeover have add ons based on promotion to the premier league, some of the debt was wiped off and some of the debt was settled at a much lower value than what it stood at with limited debt carried forward?

They also got a championship squad and Ryton for their pound didn't they? Not to mention a much better starting point for rebuilding the club.

It's probably not wise to compare the GH bid with the deal that originally brought SISU here. You may find it stacks up as equal maybe even better.

People seem to just focus on the pound?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

What hoffman wants to buy isn't worth nothing though is it? If he was taking on debts then I'd agree the up front stuff would go down to a £1 type deal.

I think this is a point that gets missed. Ryton has a value, players have a value. OSB has explained it better also.

Read these:

CCFC worth - by lecturer in football finance Liverpool

CCFC worth - by lecturer in football finance Liverpool

They brought a championship club that if they had done things right

People seem to just focus on the pound?

Yes because what came after was due to their own unprofessional way of running the club.

 

[robbiekeane]

Yes because what came after was due to their own unprofessional way of running the club.

But didn't they take it on with quite a bit of debt?

 

[idm1975]

Have linked to where osb explained it better a couple of posts back.

It's not the same to compare it.

That's right it's not. Hoffman wouldn't be getting any of the Ricoh or a championship squad worth millions

 

[Nick]

That's right it's not. Hoffman wouldn't be getting any of the Ricoh or a championship squad worth millions

Any of the Ricoh?

Hoffman also wouldn't be getting any debt or liabilities.

Read the link for a better explanation of why and how it's different.

 

[Grendel]

That's right it's not. Hoffman wouldn't be getting any of the Ricoh or a championship squad worth millions

The championship squad where wages were exceeding income by half a million a month with the small matter of paying a £1.3 million rent

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

I ask again why would a City fan be worried about Sisus debt? I for one couldn't give a fuck about it. I would want a coventry consortium to get the club for as little as possible. But each to their own I suppose. Looking forward to the next piece in the local chip wrapper where poor old Sisu are being shafted by evil local mafia dons.