Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (12 Viewers)

[covcity4life]

or they are offering something they know has no real substance cc4l

yeah just playing devils advocate, just saying cant take it as fact that consortium does not have money behind them

 

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[skybluetony176]

Then he's way out. There's no way if you total up what SISU would get if they sold every player they could get a fee for and sold Ryton it would be a total of £2m.

Well edited to come back to make a point I never made. He's apparently offered £2M up front without Ryton not with, so you're already trying to add something into the equation that isn't there. Are those players worth more than £2M? Or are they worth X amount (maybe less than £2M) upfront with add ons taking it past £2M? If its the latter, which it most likely is, how has Hoff offered them anything different in format to what would happen if they didn't sell the club? Except that they won't continue to plug losses of the club that they're failing to run.

 

[Astute]

She is saying the offer needs to be worth far more to her. She has no need to sell, it would not be a distressed discounted sale. She wont blink because nothing is being negotiated

If he is buying the potential and believes it is worth much more long term then his bid must reflect that in her eyes

Are add ons an incentive. The biggest part of these deals seems to be on getting to the Premiership in 5 years or something - I know the value I place on that right now

It terms of asset value it is worthless it can not fall significantly so it is not an issue to Seppala. The amount she needs is still based on ARVO imo

The club is parked, it should have, even with low ST sales, a reasonable L2 budget....... a little success on the pitch and that will only increase

He has offered 2m plus an asset she already controls (Ryton) that can move around the group structure to keep it away from the GH Consortium and a majority of value £12m+ as add ons that are frankly unlikely to happen looking at it today, unless there is very significant amounts of working capital put in either as shares or loans. Does GH have that backing, if he hasn't then the value JS places on the add ons will be negligible. Don't forget she knows full well how add ons work she "saved" £6m when not promoted to Premiership

So the offer is not really £20m, not even £8m (ryton plus £2m)............... but £2m ............. who thinks she will sell at that? Take your sky blue glasses off and answer honestly by putting yourself in her position. Very unlikely isn't it

I don't disagree. But to me she should come out with a number. Put up or shut up. It would stop them from wasting everyone's time.

Otherwise she either doesn't want to sell for some reason or she knows that she is after some figure that isn't realistic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well edited to come back to make a point I never made. He's apparently offered £2M up front without Ryton not with, so you're already trying to add something into the equation that isn't there. Are those players worth more than £2M? Or are they worth X amount (maybe less than £2M) upfront with add ons taking it past £2M? If its the latter, which it most likely is, how has Hoff offered them anything different in format to what would happen if they didn't sell the club? Except that they won't continue to plug losses of the club that they're failing to run.

Tony, the two scenarios are the same. The player's value to SISU is the transfer fee, how its paid is neither here nor there.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't disagree. But to me she should come out with a number. Put up or shut up. It would stop them from wasting everyone's time.

Otherwise she either doesn't want to sell for some reason or she knows that she is after some figure that isn't realistic.

In the real world, people aren't so silly as to go public with such information.

 

[Captain Dart]

Hoff isn't saying CCFC, or the bits he wants to buy, is worth £20m. He's saying it's worth £2M up front with add ons potentially rising up to £20M.

If Callum Wilson was worth £6M with add ons why didn't Bournemouth just pay £6M up front?

Nothing unusual about buying something with add ons, especially true with football.

As I read it there is more or less guaranteed
a. £2M up front
b. ~£3M share of transfer dealings for 3 years
c. ~£0.5M promotion to league one
d. ~£4.5M sale of Ryton

So £10M, which is where I thought Joy's minimum figure would be, but she is a greedy so & so hence she probably wants £12M.
I suspect she feels safe hanging on another year as it stands with no -ve cashflow and an indication of the court case outcome expected in that time.

The fat lady has yet to arrive at the changing room. :emoji_cry:

 

[oldskyblue58]

I don't disagree. But to me she should come out with a number. Put up or shut up. It would stop them from wasting everyone's time.

Otherwise she either doesn't want to sell for some reason or she knows that she is after some figure that isn't realistic.

But she isn't saying anything is she........... so she has shut up. It isn't Seppala or SISU wasting anyone's time in truth over negotiations or bids. They have never said they are looking for offers, or even that CCFC is for sale (quite the opposite isn't it) and any bids from GH have been firmly and promptly rebutted, there have been no negotiations going on or invited. That's not defending her or pro SISU for anyone reading this, its just what is. It is clear isn't it, and only hope being stirred up that got everyone excited. So guess it is your final sentence

Like I said there has never been any need to sell displayed. All the noise has come from elsewhere

 

[Nick]

Like I said there has never been any need to sell displayed. All the noise has come from elsewhere

Exactly, it's still strange how he made a point of being offended (as did other people) about details being revealed and things being public but he sends a press release out to the media.

So many people seem to know about all of the bids, people on Facebook and random fans groups on Twitter etc.

It's still quite strange. Still trying a massive PR game.

Fans groups also ramping up the boycott encouragement too....

 

[Kingokings204]

So the latest bid was rejected a week ago. I would of at least thought they thought about it waiting a week and didn't leak the details this time so that's a start.

They want money up front that way they can move on to new investments straight away I guess. Hoffman needs to up his bid if he is serious up front money I mean or he is better off just saying I am done with this. Has he said he is finished bidding now?

 

[fernandopartridge]

The secrecy thing is laughable as well. We have a 'consortium of Coventry businessmen' but no idea who they are or how many there are. It could be just Joe Elliott for all we know.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The secrecy thing is laughable as well. We have a 'consortium of Coventry businessmen' but no idea who they are or how many there are. It could be just Joe Elliott for all we know.

Yup.

I can accept that confidentiality stops certain things being released.

But then I'd rather not have anything drip fed out, if that's the case. Frankly, given his previous track record, if Joe Elliot is behind a bid, you know to head in the opposite direction!

Surely it's of concern that Ryton isn't included in any deal too? Why not just include the cost of Ryton in any offer, and buy it? The new owners could always sell it on again later if any better alternative was found, but to let Ryton go so easily seems to be allowing the last bit of family silver to go into the ether.

And then we end up a club that owns what exactly? Where is its base? What does it build from? How does it form its own identity?

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony, the two scenarios are the same. The player's value to SISU is the transfer fee, how its paid is neither here nor there.

That seems to depend on how you arrive at the value. What have we actually received for the sales of Wilson and Maddison? What potentially could that amount rise too? What was their true value when we sold them? It's exactly the same principle.

What players do we have who are worth more than £2M up front combined? What could the combined add ons be worth?

Will SISU trouser any of them fee's either up front or add ons or will they be used to help plug the holes at the club?

The £2M Hoff has apparently offered up front will SISU trouser that? If any add ons come off will SISU trouser that too? I would think yes as they no longer have a failing football club to plug holes in.

So which option actually has more value to SISU? £2M to put in their pocket or £2M to put back into your failing business and hopefully you don't have to add anymore to it out of your own pocket that you haven't put £2M into?

Sorry but it's a get out for SISU to say the squad is worth more. Because A) it properly isn't, at least not up front anyway and B) whatever the squad is worth they aren't trousering while they own the club because its being used to plug holes.

 

[italiahorse]

Another pointless bid that's conveniently leaked across social media.

Regarding the view it's being considered as it took a while to reject I suspect the truth is that Seppella took a few days to look at it and then just said no.

It's ridiculous to suggest it's an insult she's not meeting to discuss either. As people like house analogies would you meet with someone who offered a tiny fraction of what you believe the house is worth

If this really is a £20 million bid as its being suggested then offer the £20 million now - I think she'd talk then.

It's not worth £20M so why would someone offer it.?
The value is in the future but Sisu can't get us there. In that respect why not take a cut of future income from someone who can?

 

[fernandopartridge]

As I read it there is more or less guaranteed
a. £2M up front
b. ~£3M share of transfer dealings for 3 years
c. ~£0.5M promotion to league one
d. ~£4.5M sale of Ryton

So £10M, which is where I thought Joy's minimum figure would be, but she is a greedy so & so hence she probably wants £12M.
I suspect she feels safe hanging on another year as it stands with no -ve cashflow and an indication of the court case outcome expected in that time.

The fat lady has yet to arrive at the changing room. :emoji_cry:

I'll trade your fat lady singing for when the fat pig flies. £10m....


B. Where is the guarantee here? What if the club doesn't sell £3m worth of players in 3 years? It makes nothing from selling players (the only thing keeping it from further significant losses every year). Are the fans suddenly on board with 'selling the family silver' now?

C. How will this be achieved considering B?

D. Where has this figure come from? Is it more or less than a figure SISU might achieve selling it themselves? They're presumably already talked to prospective developers as part of the work they did to get it on to Rugby Council's local plan.

 

[skybluetony176]

The secrecy thing is laughable as well. We have a 'consortium of Coventry businessmen' but no idea who they are or how many there are. It could be just Joe Elliott for all we know.

You should try asking SISU for a list of everyone who's invested in CCFC under their stewardship. Let us know how you get on with that.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

I thought Hoffman wanted it in private and was upset about details coming out? Bhsb and last won't be happy about that.

In terms of the bid, is getting closer but is it still just for assets or is he cutting a deal for a % of debt? That will be their sticking point. ( actual debt, not the random number).

Glad he has said to keep ryton as a sweetener, don't mess about renting it back have a clean break.

Why mention me?

 

[Kingokings204]

It's not worth £20M so why would someone offer it.?
The value is in the future but Sisu can't get us there. In that respect why not take a cut of future income from someone who can?

Fair point. We have all the foundations to be successful agin under the right ownership. If that's sisu that's fine by me but we know it won't be. So best thing they can do is sell up run with some money and get some down the line also. Why not?

Interestingly what did smurthwaite say a few months ago. He reckons 5 million would see them gone and he also said they are probably wanting to go? I'm sure he said that. So there we go. He would know more than us. Offer 5 million and that should do it.

 

[covcity4life]

The secrecy thing is laughable as well. We have a 'consortium of Coventry businessmen' but no idea who they are or how many there are. It could be just Joe Elliott for all we know.

2 other names were given so we know its not just joe elliott.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's not worth £20M so why would someone offer it.?

Quite right.

It's also obvious SISU won't accept a minimal bid with vague add-ons that may or may not happen, so why offer that (publicly too)?

What's the purpose?

 

[covcity4life]

As I read it there is more or less guaranteed
a. £2M up front
b. ~£3M share of transfer dealings for 3 years
c. ~£0.5M promotion to league one
d. ~£4.5M sale of Ryton

So £10M, which is where I thought Joy's minimum figure would be, but she is a greedy so & so hence she probably wants £12M.
I suspect she feels safe hanging on another year as it stands with no -ve cashflow and an indication of the court case outcome expected in that time.

The fat lady has yet to arrive at the changing room. :emoji_cry:

those figures seem realistic. so rather than 2m upfront it could be said tis guaranteed 10m rising to 20m which sounds better

hopefully they can increase the upfront cash to 4-5m and maybe that will tip the balance.

 

[Brylowes]

Just wondering if there is something sisu are hiding which a sale might reveal and that is the reason preventing a sale?

Yeah, maybe there's a dark cellar buried deep under Ryton, where the new owners will
Stumble across Steve Waggot, Red Ken, Anderson, Mark Venus and numerous other
Former directors, all chained up and living on stale water and cold pies.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yeah, maybe there's a dark cellar buried deep under Ryton, where the new owners will
Stumble across Steve Waggot, Red Ken, Anderson, Mark Venus and numerous other
Former directors, all chained up and living on stale water and cold pies.

Well... all bar the pies.

You need the Wasps dungeon for them!

 

[fernandopartridge]

You should try asking SISU for a list of everyone who's invested in CCFC under their stewardship. Let us know how you get on with that.

But I thought this was a clean sweep, a new direction with openness and engagement.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But I thought this was a clean sweep, a new direction with openness and engagement.

Yeah, what kind of logic is it that says SISU are shite, so let's reproduce the same?!?

 

[Nick]

Yeah, what kind of logic is it that says SISU are shite, so let's reproduce the same?!?

Anything that gets the reply "but sisu do it" shouldn't even be mentioned surely?

 

[Nick]

those figures seem realistic. so rather than 2m upfront it could be said tis guaranteed 10m rising to 20m which sounds better

hopefully they can increase the upfront cash to 4-5m and maybe that will tip the balance.

Will we sell 6m of players in 3 years?

 

[skybluetony176]

Why mention me?

He needed a diversion.

 

[covcity4life]

Will we sell 6m of players in 3 years?

true,we might decide to keep players.

but if we did:

willi 500k
stevenson 1m
camwell 250k
jones 250k

thats a current 4 that would get at least 2m. so over 3 years we could probably do it

but i agree that shouldnt go down as guaranteed cash actually.

but it is still potential cash so maybe just keep it in as a clause and increase upfront 5-6m.

 

[oldskyblue58]

That seems to depend on how you arrive at the value. What have we actually received for the sales of Wilson and Maddison? What potentially could that amount rise too? What was their true value when we sold them? It's exactly the same principle.

What players do we have who are worth more than £2M up front combined? What could the combined add ons be worth?

Will SISU trouser any of them fee's either up front or add ons or will they be used to help plug the holes at the club?

The £2M Hoff has apparently offered up front will SISU trouser that? If any add ons come off will SISU trouser that too? I would think yes as they no longer have a failing football club to plug holes in.

So which option actually has more value to SISU? £2M to put in their pocket or £2M to put back into your failing business and hopefully you don't have to add anymore to it out of your own pocket that you haven't put £2M into?

Sorry but it's a get out for SISU to say the squad is worth more. Because A) it properly isn't, at least not up front anyway and B) whatever the squad is worth they aren't trousering while they own the club because its being used to plug holes.

Trouble with all that tony is that in all likelihood the club will still be worth a bid of £2m in a years time and that the SISU investment could well be no greater than it is now. Where is the incentive to go now?

 

[skybluetony176]

But I thought this was a clean sweep, a new direction with openness and engagement.

I would imagine you would know who, what, where and where if a takeover happens. In 25 years you still won't have an idea of who has actually owned us at any point during SISU's stewardship. You can see the difference I'm sure.

 

[Nick]

He needed a diversion.

It wasn't a diversion of anything, it is fact that people were outraged when details were printed.

 

[Nick]

Why mention me?

Because you seemed to be a little angry about details being leaked So much so you have waded on wrong threads about it and banged on about Fisher leaking all the info etc.

 

[oldskyblue58]

It's not worth £20M so why would someone offer it.?
The value is in the future but Sisu can't get us there. In that respect why not take a cut of future income from someone who can?

No its not worth £20m but that's what GH is saying is the offered value. Of course there is a future under SISU its just not the one we hope for. How do we know GH can get us there to this mythical sunny future? we can only hope he can if he gets the club, which I see no signs of him achieving

 

[ccfcway]

Fans groups also ramping up the boycott encouragement too....

ha ha.

Who they asking to boycott, as most have already gone ?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I would imagine you would know who, what, where and where if a takeover happens. In 25 years you still won't have an idea of who has actually owned us at any point during SISU's stewardship. You can see the difference I'm sure.

I have to giggle at your juvenile attempts at appearing smart

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