Explosions at Manchester Arena (12 Viewers)

[ccfc92]

There are lots of complex reasons I'm sure - I feel one potential solution can be linked to education and how we can ensure that these young men (and women!) feel they are part of a wider British community and they are valued as much as every other person born on these shores.
When we discuss groups of people in this country (especially white people) we talk about them being English, Irish, Scottish - rarely Catholic, Protestant, Atheist... When groups of people from Asian descent are discussed - the go-to word is Muslim. A religion is not a nationality, and too easily the press gloss over the nationality and go straight to the religion.

You're right. So why are we/communities/the government so scared to tackle radical-Islam, when you can have White, Black, Asian muslims....?

 

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[Cov City Daytrader 87]

Guys found this interview with a guy called Adam Deen who is a former Islamic extremist on Good Morning Britain.

 

[ccfc92]

Manchester bombing: Fifth man arrested following attack

 

[ccfc92]

Quite a good interview I thought, honest and constructive.

 

[Macca]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobi...n/dont-blame-wahhabism-for-terrorism.amp.html

Different slant

 

[ccfc92]

I'll be honest, and arrogant I guess, I hadn't heard much of this "Wahhabism" before this thread and thank those who have mentioned it, so I can read up on it.

I've done a bit of research myself, and from what I can gather, it's a splinter of Islam formed in the middle ages, sanctioned by a small % of Saudis in the 1980's.

Is there much evidence (I couldn't find any) that the majority of Saudis/Saudi government sanction Wahhabism today? Thanks in advance.

 

[ccfc92]

Deport them where?

I don't want anyone deported anywhere (Genuine, law abiding citizens I mean)

I've met people of all religions/races who are top people.

Deportation isn't the answer.

People getting on, and not finding excuses to justify killing others, is.

 

[clint van damme]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobi...n/dont-blame-wahhabism-for-terrorism.amp.html

Different slant

Interesting read. Doesn't sway my opinion on the Saudis as I've come across to much written evidence that supports the concerns about Wahhabism but always good to get another view.

Agree that trying to come up with a single cause explanation detracts from the complexity of the situation.
Have also heard of Deobandis which some sources say is more popular in UK mosques than Wahhabism.

 

[clint van damme]

I'll be honest, and arrogant I guess, I hadn't heard much of this "Wahhabism" before this thread and thank those who have mentioned it, so I can read up on it.

I've done a bit of research myself, and from what I can gather, it's a splinter of Islam formed in the middle ages, sanctioned by a small % of Saudis in the 1980's.

Is there much evidence (I couldn't find any) that the majority of Saudis/Saudi government sanction Wahhabism today? Thanks in advance.

They spend billions exporting around the world mate.

 

[ccfc92]

They spend billions exporting around the world mate.

Exporting what, exactly?

 

[clint van damme]

Exporting what, exactly?

it's a type of Islam.

What is Wahhabism? The reactionary branch of Islam from Saudi Arabia said to be 'the main source of global terrorism'

 

[lifeskyblue]

You certainly don't need to deport or lock up law abiding citizens.
The first thing I would do is ban sharia courts/council/laws. There is one law for all citizens...not local religious groups having a different law.
I would ask moderate followers of Islam to denounce all forms of violence publicly on prime time tv and in all mosques. Show both muslims and the rest of society that we do not tolerate or excuse any acts of extremist violence.
I would outlaw all religious schools (catholic, Jewish, etc as well). Integrate our children from the earliest of ages.
I would look at 'ghetto' type areas and look at dispersing people more evenly in our cities.
Again integrate rather than allow people to segregate.
Anyone (of any faith or no faith) who promotes or threatens extremism to be taken out of society until they are appropriately assessed etc.


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[ccfc92]

it's a type of Islam.

What is Wahhabism? The reactionary branch of Islam from Saudi Arabia said to be 'the main source of global terrorism'

"The US State Department has estimated that over the past four decades Riyadh has invested more than $10bn (£6bn) into charitable foundations in an attempt to replace mainstream Sunni Islam with the harsh intolerance of its Wahhabism. EU intelligence experts estimate that 15 to 20 per cent of this has been diverted to al-Qaida and other violent jihadists."

If the US recognises this, why do they/we trade with them still?

 

[clint van damme]

You certainly don't need to deport or lock up law abiding citizens.
The first thing I would do is ban sharia courts/council/laws. There is one law for all citizens...not local religious groups having a different law.
I would ask moderate followers of Islam to denounce all forms of violence publicly on prime time tv and in all mosques. Show both muslims and the rest of society that we do not tolerate or excuse any acts of extremist violence.
I would outlaw all religious schools (catholic, Jewish, etc as well). Integrate our children from the earliest of ages.
I would look at 'ghetto' type areas and look at dispersing people more evenly in our cities.
Again integrate rather than allow people to segregate.
Anyone (of any faith or no faith) who promotes or threatens extremism to be taken out of society until they are appropriately assessed etc.


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I actually don't agree with a lot of that but fair play for trying to suggest something other than "bomb them all".

 

[clint van damme]

"The US State Department has estimated that over the past four decades Riyadh has invested more than $10bn (£6bn) into charitable foundations in an attempt to replace mainstream Sunni Islam with the harsh intolerance of its Wahhabism. EU intelligence experts estimate that 15 to 20 per cent of this has been diverted to al-Qaida and other violent jihadists."

If the US recognises this, why do they/we trade with them still?

oil and arms. Buying one from them and selling the other to them.

 

[lifeskyblue]

"The US State Department has estimated that over the past four decades Riyadh has invested more than $10bn (£6bn) into charitable foundations in an attempt to replace mainstream Sunni Islam with the harsh intolerance of its Wahhabism. EU intelligence experts estimate that 15 to 20 per cent of this has been diverted to al-Qaida and other violent jihadists."

If the US recognises this, why do they/we trade with them still?

Because US needs oil and needs to export arms. If they had no oil trump, Obama and bush would be crawling to the Saudis they would have obliterated them.


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[ccfc92]

You certainly don't need to deport or lock up law abiding citizens.
The first thing I would do is ban sharia courts/council/laws. There is one law for all citizens...not local religious groups having a different law.
I would ask moderate followers of Islam to denounce all forms of violence publicly on prime time tv and in all mosques. Show both muslims and the rest of society that we do not tolerate or excuse any acts of extremist violence.
I would outlaw all religious schools (catholic, Jewish, etc as well). Integrate our children from the earliest of ages.
I would look at 'ghetto' type areas and look at dispersing people more evenly in our cities.
Again integrate rather than allow people to segregate.
Anyone (of any faith or no faith) who promotes or threatens extremism to be taken out of society until they are appropriately assessed etc.


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This I 100% agree with. Same as if I went to a Muslim (or any for that matter) country, we would have to respect their laws.

 

[ccfc92]

oil and arms. Buying one from them and selling the other to them.

Because US needs oil and needs to export arms. If they had no oil trump, Obama and bush would be crawling to the Saudis they would have obliterated them.


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Doesn't the US have it's own oil reserves though? Same here, with the North Sea oil reserves?

 

[clint van damme]

Doesn't the US have it's own oil reserves though? Same here, with the North Sea oil reserves?

the US is moving away from it's reliance on Saudi oil, I think due to fracking. But they've just won a massive arms contract with the Saudis.

 

[clint van damme]

the US is moving away from it's reliance on Saudi oil, I think due to fracking. But they've just won a massive arms contract with the Saudis.

Just Googled, 11 percent from Saudi Arabia, (183 million barrels!). Biggest supplier is Canada, 40 percent.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

i just received an email through our Birmingham council colleagues confirming that the threat level is now critical. The email states that an attack is not only highly likely but imminent. Scary stuff.....

You don't think there may have been a little undue pressure to focus minds on making this decision...you know to wanting those who make us feel more safe in charge given there is an election in our midst?
Call me a cynic

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[SkyblueBazza]

That little twat has unsurprisingly just come back from Libya.

Trump may be onto something with banning travellers from those danger areas.

Or maybe countries like ours & the US (WE) should stop interfering in the goings on of other countries. WE sponsor rebels, in various countries, that commit various activities that WE would call terrorist if we were on the receiving end.

Like who sponsored the Arab-Spring? That went well - depending on how you look at it.

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[SkyblueBazza]

They spend billions exporting around the world mate.

That's a statement...he asked for evidence

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[SkyblueBazza]

Because US needs oil and needs to export arms. If they had no oil trump, Obama and bush would be crawling to the Saudis they would have obliterated them.


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US Energy Information 'In total energy, the U.S. was over 61% self-sufficient in 2013. In May 2011, the country became a net exporter of refined petroleum products. As of 2014, the United States was the world's third-largest producer of crude oil, after Saudi Arabia and Russia. and second largest exporter of refined products, after Russia.'

Hmmm...must be force of habit, power or religion or something we arent seeing then?

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[ccfc92]

Or maybe countries like ours & the US (WE) should stop interfering in the goings on of other countries. WE sponsor rebels, in various countries, that commit various activities that WE would call terrorist if we were on the receiving end.

Like who sponsored the Arab-Spring? That went well - depending on how you look at it.

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Just out of interest, and purely hypothetical, if there was a country, let's pick.... Italy for example.

There are corrupt governments, factions fighting each other, innocent lives being lost, children slaughtered etc, would you be happy with the UK not acting/helping?

 

[wingy]

You don't think there may have been a little undue pressure to focus minds on making this decision...you know to wanting those who make us feel more safe in charge given there is an election in our midst?
Call me a cynic

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You don't mean like parking tanks around Heathrow do you?

 

[LastGarrison]

Slightly off topic but we granted the Father asylum so he could get away from the Gaddafi regime but Gaddafi was killed back in 2011 so do we not encourage people to go back and integrate in their home country once the "danger" is over? Genuine question based on the Father being arrested back in Libya today so clearly no longer in any danger back in Libya.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Just out of interest, and purely hypothetical, if there was a country, let's pick.... Italy for example.

There are corrupt governments, factions fighting each other, innocent lives being lost, children slaughtered etc, would you be happy with the UK not acting/helping?

Yes...it is the form of help that is the problem isn't it? Interventions seem selective though. Ukraine, Crimea - attract expressions of disgust; Rwanda - all brushed under the carpet until massacres were reported...then relatively token efforts; Iraq - all out war based upon a falsehood.

I don't know how the powers that be justify one over the other to themselves - but there doesn't appear to me to be much consistency.

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[Sky_Blue_Daz]

Fellas from Nuneaton been arrested in connection with Mondays attack

 

[Nick]

Fellas from Nuneaton been arrested in connection with Mondays attack

Really? Where's that been said?

 

[Sky_Blue_Daz]

Just heard on the radio, they didn't go into too much detail

 

[Nick]

Police raid in Nuneaton linked to Manchester attack investigation

 

[SkyblueBazza]

You don't mean like parking tanks around Heathrow do you?

Another fine example...I personally would feel much more reassured being IN the tank of course.

Let's face it - your average, even mediocre intellectually blessed, terrorist is hardly likely to attack an army tank. They want to kill this likes of you & I

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[wingy]

7th arrest made tonight in Nuneaton.

 

[Great_Expectations]

Police raid in Nuneaton linked to Manchester attack investigation

Jesus, getting very close to home now.