fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The NUS only like freedom of speech as long as they agree with it. Plenty of examples of them trying to get speakers banned from universities, even Germaine Greer.
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Explosions at Manchester Arena (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
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We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Don't they use ammonia or something similar in bomb making? That stuff reeks.
Saw that on telly years ago, before anyone asks.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
And the following weekend 000's will be complaining about ott police actions.
You can't have selectivity...the authorities are either slanted to liberal reactions or right-wing police state ones to people's actions. Whether it be religious rantings, or say rowdy drunken behaviour down the high street on a Friday night, or indeed chanting & intimidating opposition fans on a matchday.
Maybe erring more toward the right-wing police state is to be preferable to reduce the risks of repeat scenarios...but is the other stuff a too large, or just a small price to pay?
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We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
They already are. Bun day in Bedworth is cancelled and plenty of parents on FB are complaining. I'd rather my kid is safe than going to stand in the sun and being put at risk.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
The point I'm trying to make is that there needs to be a zero tolerance standpoint on anything terrorism related.
In my opinion you lose your human rights when you affiliate with this kind of thing. Everyone knows not all Muslims are terrorists, even if people do get a bit angry sometimes and say some daft things, the fact that the police are busy using their resources to investigate Katie Hopkins' tweets is just ridiculous. I know she is mostly a waste of skin, but she isn't comparable to someone who has just murdered a group of children.
We need to accept that there is a dark corner of Islam that needs curbing. You're never going to get rid of it completely because the population of Muslim followers in Europe is now too high and they'll always be some idiots, but you can go much further to fixing it, and with that will come a much more positive view of Muslims from the rest of the continent too. This current pandering is crazy though. It needs to be talked about, and some common sense needs to be injected. Not PC platitudes and virtue signalling, or attacking anyone who is rightly upset, it simply doesn't help (burying heads in the sand).
There will be attack after attack after attack, unless we take some firm action now. I saw the raids in Coventry a few weeks ago, and now you can see the Nuneaton shit last night. This isn't just happening in Raqqa, this is three streets away. I have a few ideas that ultimately I would put forward, feel free to agree/disagree/discuss:
- Pull out of all middle eastern conflict immediately. We don't need to be involved in this shit and I don't think we're really helping.
- Cut ties with Saudi Arabia. Licking them is a joke, they need to be told to fuck off until they sort their shit out at least.
- Extreme vetting of any refugees we do take, this also means anyone posing as a migrant is deported immediately for not qualifying. No risks needed.
- Shut down religious schools and integrate the kids into mainstream society.
- Go in and shut down any ghettos that are in existence. - Certainly can be found in France, Belgium, and Sweden. A few scattered round the UK too.
- Shut down any mosque that is deemed as a terrorist melting pot. Even if one person comes out of there with radical views. No second chances.
- Deport any hate preachers and ban them from the UK for life.
- 4,000 people on the watch list as of now, sift through them, deport anyone who even associated with terrorism. Any UK nationals within that group should also be imprisoned immediately. No second chances.
- Anyone found guilty of terrorism planning, funding, or affiliation. Immediate prison or deportation (all family members too).
- Encourage friends, family, colleagues, and mosques to grass these people up. Use a variation incentives. We need help to fight this from regular Muslims.
- Stop this 'islamaphobia' bollocks. Radical muslims are killing people, even if some people take it too far, the basic principle is not an irrational phobia.
- Stop the 'terrorist attacks are part and parcel of living in a big city' mindset. This is war, terrorism is winning. We need action.
Zero tolerance, zero second chances. Killing a group of people at a children's concert is not acceptable, and as you can probably tell, I'm fucking angry about it.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
agree with alot of your points. but 2 that i dont
-kt hopkins grows hate towards muslims. one day someone will be the victim of a hate crime by someone stirred up ber her tweets and articles. she is a HATE PREACHER. just because she does not use religion does not mean she should be ignored
-too much emphasis put on by brits and americans about regular or moderate muslims doing more. i feel like they think regular muslims hear these plans and then say"well i aint gonna say nothing but i aint joining in" etc. these guys are individuals or very small cells. why would everday joe know about?
that said anyone that does have info desintly should report it to police even if they hate uk and us politics. sounds like this prick was kicked out of a mosque few years ago,was it reported to police back then?
-kt hopkins grows hate towards muslims. one day someone will be the victim of a hate crime by someone stirred up ber her tweets and articles. she is a HATE PREACHER. just because she does not use religion does not mean she should be ignored
-too much emphasis put on by brits and americans about regular or moderate muslims doing more. i feel like they think regular muslims hear these plans and then say"well i aint gonna say nothing but i aint joining in" etc. these guys are individuals or very small cells. why would everday joe know about?
that said anyone that does have info desintly should report it to police even if they hate uk and us politics. sounds like this prick was kicked out of a mosque few years ago,was it reported to police back then?
covmark
Well-Known Member
Yeah this idiot was reported to the police a few times mate, but was deemed not much of a threat.
Just shows you can't watch all of the fuckers all of the time.
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covcity4life
Well-Known Member
thats the problem, he was kicked out for acting like a child or something i read. if police find nothing credible they cant spend time following etc, but then if something happens 8 years later they will regret it. so tough
once again strict could be way to go. even joke about commiting a terrorist attack(even while drunk) you get put in jail for a week or whatever. sounds crazy but jokes and lies would soon stop. only anyone serious would continue to preach
but then........you need proof. once mosque reported this whats to stop the terrorist saying nah i ddint say that, you got proof?
toughie
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
When the country came under attack in the 70's and 80's from the IRA, the government authorised SAS squads to operate a shoot to kill policy on known terrorists who were known to be planning or endangering lives. I'd say that had more to do with stopping the IRA than any peace process that Blair made up.
The problem nowday's is that everyone is so PC and human rights orientated that I doubt that it would even be considered.
The problem nowday's is that everyone is so PC and human rights orientated that I doubt that it would even be considered.
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I hear lots of Muslims, including "community leaders", clerics, Imams, etc. coming out after this type of attack and saying that it is not part of the Islamic doctrine, "not in my name", etc.
But what I would like to know is in how many mosques up and down the country (and throughout the world) does the preacher/cleric/Imam stand up and say in the Muslim version of a sermon "This is wrong. Whoever is telling you these things is wrong. This is evil. This is not what Allah wants. This is not the way to salvation. Martyrdom will see you in hell, not heaven, and you will not get your 72 maidens. Islam is a religion of peace. There is nothing in the Qu'ran that tells you to murder infidels!"
Not many, i'll warrant, and until they do, these attacks will go on.
But what I would like to know is in how many mosques up and down the country (and throughout the world) does the preacher/cleric/Imam stand up and say in the Muslim version of a sermon "This is wrong. Whoever is telling you these things is wrong. This is evil. This is not what Allah wants. This is not the way to salvation. Martyrdom will see you in hell, not heaven, and you will not get your 72 maidens. Islam is a religion of peace. There is nothing in the Qu'ran that tells you to murder infidels!"
Not many, i'll warrant, and until they do, these attacks will go on.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
the paratroopers killed 13 innocent people when the ira was almost dead on it's arse and after that they couldn't sign them up fast enough so I'm not sure such a gung ho approach works.
Especially when we're dealing with people who are looking for martyrdom anyway.
Just like the ukip idiot on Tuesday who suggested bringing back hanging - not really a deterrent for a suicide bomber.
Maybe, at a time when resources are getting cut we need to give more to the police and security forces but where will the money come from?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The NUS are a joke representative of fuck all. I really wouldn't worry about what they do.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
As you know we come from differing view points but I agree with you on the majority of these. I'd disagree with deporting family members and I think that people who spew hate towards Muslims should be investigated and charged as that sort of shit isn't acceptable in a civilised society. I'd also put into place more effective integration schemes so that when people first arrive here they become constructive members of society quicker, UK nationals should be part of this too (possibly community service for those spreading hate speech).
Pulling out of external conflicts and cutting ties with despotic regimes can only be a good thing for us.
Nobody would argue about being tough with people involved in terrorist activities, they're dickheads and deserve the full force of the law. What we do need to do is ensure we do this in a way that doesn't isolate entire peaceful communities as that will only exacerbate the problem. I don't think any reduction in civil liberties is the answer either.
I think we'd be amazed the effects a sensible foreign policy would have though.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
The shoot to kill policy was in place during the height of the troubles. When a sensible diplomatic process was enacted common ground was found and eventually peace. Violence without thought is exactly what we shouldn't be doing.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I your post is 1 fact and 1 supposition. It's a fact that Muslims come out and condemn these attacks. You've supposed that this doesn't happen in mosques. Undoubtedly there are isolated cases where radical mosques exist but unless evidence to the contrary is presented we shouldn't assume radicalisation happens in a traditional religious setting. I think the onset of the internet has allowed for radicalisation on an individual basis and this is where our concerns should lie.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
In spite all this we're still having far less attacks than we used to, they're just coming from a particular source in radical Islam. We shouldn't destroy our society and values to combat it, we should develop effective means of combating the problem and successfully integrating affected communities.
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Are you for real?
What a callous statement.
Monday’s massacre was not just ‘a serious attack’.
It was 22 young lives ended in the most barbaric way.
It was 59 seriously or critically injured young people.
It was hundreds of lives ruined forever.
Our next government must start putting the safety of the public ahead of the freedoms of those who are known to be plotting against us whilst living amongst us.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
I'm sure you'd be feeling the same way, if it was your daughter butchered the other night?
Jesus Christ.
RegTheDonk
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming it got deleted because the taxi driver was a Sikh, not a muslim?
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
The slaughtering of innocent people, is acceptable?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
You could have worded it a bit better (isn't that bad is perhaps superfluous) but I understand what you're saying.
That said, clearly there needs to be closer monitoring of suspects. Apparently the Manchester bomber was living in a veritable bomb factory.
Government snooping on Internet use appears more bothered about protecting the profits of multinationals than protecting the public.
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
You can't integrate a community that doesn't want to, it's a two way street. The same problem has existed for many years and is exacerbated by various well-meaning but counterproductive things public services do for the Muslim community.
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep that's exactly what Shmmeee said and exactly what I said was acceptable.
Why is it that a British life means more to you than a yazidi or a Coptic Christian or Syrian child or Libyan refugee?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Apparently he had been reported to the authorities from within his own community on more than one occasion.
Be interesting to know whether it wasn't taken more seriously due to the quality of the information or whether they are just too swamped to look into everything they do receive.
There's a video doing the round from when May was home secretary of a Manchester police officer telling her this is exactly where cuts would lead, though as much as I hate the tories I find it a bit distasteful that the incident is been used for political gain though I suppose that was inevitably going to happen.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Why do these people's lives mean more to you, than a British life?
I challenge you to find a quote from me saying Syrian children dying "isn't that bad". I am equally saddened by people dying in the M.E everyday.
Saying a few deaths here in the UK isn't that bad, is exactly the same as saying people dying in Syria isn't that bad. Wouldn't you say?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I think you've misunderstood him, (or maybe I have), but I think he meant that in the context of what an unstable fucked up world it is relatively few people in this country are killed in these type of incidents.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Bad things happen. What evidence do you have that things need to change? What freedoms would you like to see removed to make us safer and why now when terrorist incident fatalities are at an all time low?
It's not callous. It's thinking beyond your nose.
Here's an example, what if people had died from the NHS malware attack the other week? Perhaps people did.
Do you know how that exploit got out? The NSA created it to do what you want and promptly lost it onto the web. Millions in damages and the NHS down for a day so the spooks could, what exactly?
It's nice and easy to shout outrage, as I said more people die from car exhaust fumes, I assume you are raging at anyone against a switch to clean fuel? More people die from heart disease, I assume you are campaigning for legislation on unhealthy food? More people die from car crashes, I assume you are lobbying for autonomous cars to be rushed ahead. Because if not, you're a massive hypocrite just trying to virtue signal. Are those lives worth less because they died less spectacularly?
Again: it's loud, it's scary, it looks like the movies, and every death is obviously a tragedy, but in the great scheme of things it's not a significant threat.
The other point here is that the clue is in the name: terror-ism. The aim is to make us scared of something we shouldn't be scared of. I refuse to play into their hands. Fuck em.
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Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
They don't mean more to me, they are of equal value.
Until we stop deciding one life is more valuable than another because they were born a different side of an imaginary line then this shit will never stop.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
This thread is full of terrorist apologists.
I almost cannot read it anymore.
I almost cannot read it anymore.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
absolute rubbish.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
HAHAHA you're joking right?
Because some people have a different opinion of how to combat the problem they're now 'terrorist apologists'. That's the most reductive base and idiotic thing you've ever said. You're better than that..