ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Can I just ask, why Labour has so much anti-war, anti-conflict support when it was Labour who took us to the Iraq invasion?
General Election (84 Viewers)
- Thread starter Liquid Gold
- Start date
Can I just ask, why Labour has so much anti-war, anti-conflict support when it was Labour who took us to the Iraq invasion?
dutchman
Well-Known Member
That wasn't 'Labour', that was 'New Labour' under Tony Blair.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
It's where our system is flawed mind. Growing up, we had a very good local MP, but a Tory. So he stood up for local causes, but also contributed towards voting in national policies I'm opposed to. So should I have voted on his local impact, or his national one?
Ditto, he got replaced by a Labour MP who was equally active locally. Am sure the traditional Tory voters then had the same issue!
Reform the house of Lords in a way that would allow local representation, alongside a national body of Parliament, and we'd have a system that makes it easier to define what you're actually voting for, IMO.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Question:
This Jeremy Corbyn chappy (JC to his mates) who told us yesterday he would be strong against terrorism by pledging to give security services extra resources to keep track of terrorists and by increasing police powers.
Is he the same Jeremy Corbyn who according to theyworkforyou.com, has not voted to strengthen laws against terror 56 times since 2001 and voted in favour just twice?
Just wondered.
This Jeremy Corbyn chappy (JC to his mates) who told us yesterday he would be strong against terrorism by pledging to give security services extra resources to keep track of terrorists and by increasing police powers.
Is he the same Jeremy Corbyn who according to theyworkforyou.com, has not voted to strengthen laws against terror 56 times since 2001 and voted in favour just twice?
Just wondered.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
The same Jeremy Corbyn who holds the record for voting against anti terrorist legislation in the House of Commons?
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Is there anything stopping Corbyn promising to increase anti-terror measures, then when PM not increasing them? How much of the pledges need to be fulfilled?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No I just have a reasonable knowledge on this particular topic and the past associations of Mr Mcdonnel and Mr Corbyn.
So perhaps, if as you claim, Mr Corbyn was against all bombings would you answer the following,
Why would someone who hates all bombings attend a several funerals of bombers including the notorious Bobby Sands? Why, to my knowledge, has Mr Corbyn attended funerals only of those associated with the IRA?
Why on numerous occasions had Mr Corbyn campaigned for better prison conditions for convicted IRA terrorists?
Why was Mr Corbyn at a rally campaigning for Patrick Magee the Brighton bomber?
Why, to my knowledge, did Mr Corbyn never condemn any acts of terrorism by the IRA at the time - given his known associations with them and the fact he frequently had their political leader Gerry Adams round his house?
Why when on an editorial board of a notorious had left magazine did he sanction the release of numerous statements including one which declared open warfare against the uk elected government?
Why has this man of peace voted against anti terrorism laws on an unprecedented scale?
But all Mr Corbyn needs to say is he opposed all bombings.
Tell that the the families of the victims of the bombers Mr Corbyn attended funerals at. Oh and of course the same bombers the would be Chancellor proclaimed as heroes.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
None. We know he's a bare faced liar by denying he met the IRA.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
That's what is frustrating, he's being portrayed as some sort of moralist.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The reality is you get Maverick extreme politicians but normally they never make the front bench.
Corbyn and Mcdonnell have skeletons in their closet because they are hard left politicians who never ever intended to be a leader. They didn't care. Now they do and are trying to rewrite history. Corbyn also has clear anti semetic leanings due to his clear support for the terrorist organisation Hammas and has been friends with the radical Livingston who has a very strange Hitler obsession. McDonnell is just plain dangerous. In many democratic countries he'd have been removed from parliament and in some arrested for his past rhetoric.
They, like many radical would be extremist leaders, rely on the young vote as the young vote doesn't know what they truly stand for.
I make no apology for it. These people need obliterating at the polls. They are hard left class warriors who will bring the country to its knees. Austerity now will be luxury with these people in charge. The share index would collapse and tax rates will, as in the 70's, climb to 80% for some.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
A touch misleading to say the least. If you drill down you will see there are multiple votes on the same bills and, with the benefit of hindsight, it seems Corbyn was correct.
The Anti Terrorism, Crime and Security Act was widely criticised as much of the act did not relate to terrorism. It was the Government trying to get through polices under the cloak of anti terrorism. Adam Tomkins, a conservative MP, Professor of Public Law and constitutional advisor to the Lords called it "the most draconian legislation Parliament has passed in peacetime in over a century". It only lasted till Dec 2004 when it was ruled a breach of the Convention of Human Rights and was eventually replaced by the Prevention of Terrorism Act.
The big feature of that act was control orders. The arguement against was again that they would have breached human rights laws. As a result no derogating control orders have ever successfully been obtained under section 4 of the Act.
The beginning of the end for the act was in Apr 2006 when the High Court determined section 3 of the act incompatible with the right to a fair trial in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights. It was described by one judge as an "affront to justice". The act was repealed in Dec 2011.
Finally we have the highly controversial Terrorism Act which was the first defeat for the Blair government in the Commons and the worst defeat for any government since 1978.
His voting record is entirely consistent with the stance that actions should not be taken that will act as a recruitment tool for terrorists. A stance which is becoming increasingly popular.
If you don't agree with that stance fair enough but to try and take the voting record and make out it is evidence Corbyn is a "friend of the terrorists" is hugely misleading.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Which is the argument of a defeated man
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
It's a known fact that this term 'sympathiser' in relation to Corbyn & the IRA is a media applied term surely?
Is there any actual quote from him? Or the answer "Yes" to a direct question on the issue?
Certainly, I heard this interview & what you choose to take from his words is up to you...fact is he said he condemns all bombings of innocent people. He said that directly after the "No" that you are focusing upon.
Bit like saying to a child 'Do you want a cornet?' at the icecream van. Child replies 'No, I would like a choc-ice'...with your approach G the kid would be insufferable for weeks, because they would end up with nothing!
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
You'd take no prisoners at all would you? Just shoot them. Imagine how many more British lives would have been lost in conflicts around the world over time had that approach been taken by all sides? You would be happy with their blood on your hands?
As Gandhi once said 'be the change you want to see in the world'
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mrtrench
Well-Known Member
It's starting to look very worrying. Noting here my prediction for the UK economy should Corbyn get in and push through his economic policies:
Immediately: GBP weakens against all currencies. Stock Market Crash - but utility companies don't fall - may even increase.
Medium Term: Higher inflation; Higher unemployment; gilt yields increase. National Debt versus GDP starts to become a real problem again.
Medium-Long term: Very high unemployment; tax goes up for everyone but especially for people earning more than, say £30k. Net immigration reduces dramatically; house price crash. Inflation 10% +. National debt out of control. Strikes constantly.
Labour lose the next three elections until another generation comes through who think that free stuff for everyone with the rich paying is a good idea.
Immediately: GBP weakens against all currencies. Stock Market Crash - but utility companies don't fall - may even increase.
Medium Term: Higher inflation; Higher unemployment; gilt yields increase. National Debt versus GDP starts to become a real problem again.
Medium-Long term: Very high unemployment; tax goes up for everyone but especially for people earning more than, say £30k. Net immigration reduces dramatically; house price crash. Inflation 10% +. National debt out of control. Strikes constantly.
Labour lose the next three elections until another generation comes through who think that free stuff for everyone with the rich paying is a good idea.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Why don't the many other countries with similar economic policies to those being proposed by Labour suffer the problems you suggest the UK would?
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
I'm done discussing politics on here. Just noting my predictions.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Sounds horrible. Someone should come up with a special phase for it. something like 'project fear' would do.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Hardly. You've already let slip that British soldiers murdering innocent, unarmed civilians were 'doing their job'.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Thats based on a 15 point lead not a 5 point which was the poll being discussed. Not hard.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's a 40 seat majority for the Tories based of that margin - it says it on the chart.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Which is correct. Isn't the Italian press similar to ours though in that it's mainly owned by the ruling elite.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
To be honest anyone who thinks we are going to have the upper hand in the negotiations is deluded...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The latest poll shows a 14 point lead for Tories.
Ultimately individual polls are pointless as they are influenced by knee jerk reactions and many voters actually vote in a different way to the opinion in these polls. The only validity is the averaging of all polls. It's indicating a massive majority for the Tories.
May has led a poor campaign. May has always been a ponderous politician and cautious. The campaign has almost been presidential and the cynic in me believed she would rather have a 50 seat majority than 150 as that may mean labour carry on in self destruct mode and retain the idiotic Corbyn.
The only real interest I think here is in Scotland. I think of all political leaders in this swamp of mediocrity by far the best is Ruth Davidson and I hope they gain ground.
The silly grinning anti democratic buffoon from the lib Dems will I suspect get exactly what he deserves.
Ultimately individual polls are pointless as they are influenced by knee jerk reactions and many voters actually vote in a different way to the opinion in these polls. The only validity is the averaging of all polls. It's indicating a massive majority for the Tories.
May has led a poor campaign. May has always been a ponderous politician and cautious. The campaign has almost been presidential and the cynic in me believed she would rather have a 50 seat majority than 150 as that may mean labour carry on in self destruct mode and retain the idiotic Corbyn.
The only real interest I think here is in Scotland. I think of all political leaders in this swamp of mediocrity by far the best is Ruth Davidson and I hope they gain ground.
The silly grinning anti democratic buffoon from the lib Dems will I suspect get exactly what he deserves.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Thatcher was PM. Corbyn supported their movement
Look, in the end its up to individual choice. Corbyn supported an organisation that openly dragged "informer" women from their beds and shot them through the head in front of their children
At least Abbot has changed her hairstyle what is his excuse?
But if you are comfortable with the ideology that is fine
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Let's just remove all public services and have the national debt paid off in 2 years. The progressive agenda is the more popular one, as polls continue to show-does the majority of Britain believe in 'free stuff for everyone'?