How close is a takeover really...? (17 Viewers)

[robbiekeane]

A couple of points on Sisu.
Sisu manage funds and charge the investors for doing so . On that basis if Sisu sell ,the losses to their investors become evident. I do not believe that it is Seppalla's decision whether they sell ,but the investors. The purpose of a hedge fund is for the investors to get a better return on their investment than they would by using conventional markets. On the basis of their returns to date , it has been a shocking investment.Which designates Sisu as a hedge fund not to invest in .
Until a sale is actioned , the level of the losses to the investors remains camouflaged.
In simple terms if you invested £1m a sale is likely to give you a return of £200k. Your options are to sit it out and you may minimise your loss ,or take the £800k hit and move on . The sale on this basis would destroy Sisu's already poor reputation and no doubt finish them off . While there remains a small glimmer of hope i.e. Robins can mastermind a promotion they have no option to hold onto the club . Unless the investors say enough is enough .i suspect one of the investors is Little Timmy , which is why he works for nothing .
I am not a financial expert , but believe this logically explains why Sisu are so reluctant to sell . I am happy to be corrected, but until we rid ourselves of this vermin the club will be dragged lower and lower , hence why potential local investors are prepared to write money off to save a major part of Coventry heritage .

I understand your logic but there's no way in hell that investors wouldn't require a "valuation" of their total investment often.

 

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[Astute]

I understand your logic but there's no way in hell that investors wouldn't require a "valuation" of their total investment often.

Do you understand how a hedge fund works?

Do you know how many investors Joy has?

Do you know how many have invested so far?

You have as much of a clue as me. I know how hedge funds work. But I'm not going to pretend that I know what Joy has been doing. At a rough guess I would say that they have put in about 25m to 30m. From this they have Ryton with planning permission. This is said to be worth about 6m. Then you have player valuations. And you still have the name CCFC. Money could come in from previous sales like Wilson. Then you have the high interest loans. Put this together with income (Fisher announced we made a profit) and on paper they could have made a decent income last season. But the income isn't payable yet.

It was the usual gamble for a hedge fund. High risk for hopefully a high return. The punt on getting us to the Prem failed. The punt on getting the Ricoh cheap failed. Some will have lost their bottle and lost money. Some will be hanging on waiting for a profit. And the odds are that the investment is lumped in with others that are doing better.

Unless you are gullible you would only put a small amount of your money in high risk. If it all went well they would have made a small fortune. Me? I wouldn't risk my money in something that is high risk. I am an investor. But I do low to medium on long term. I have a fair quantity from 1 company that I have been buying for 20 years. I bought my 1st lot about 20 years ago. I paid $47 each share. With the exchange rate and fees they cost me just over £28 each. Now they trade at about $130 per share. With the present exchange rate they are worth about £100 each. But on top of that they pay a dividend of about 5% per annum. And it all goes into buying more. I am satisfied with my return. But those who are into high risk would laugh at my return. They would hope for the same returns in 5 years or less. They understand that not all investments pay off. 100k to them is like 1k to us. A considerable amount of money but nothing worth losing sleep over. My investment is a part of my retirement fund. Their investment is a bit of fun with the potential of making a lot of money.

 

[Captain Dart]

Thorn must have been lying then ?

I seem to remember Thorn went on record in address to London Supporters Club (with Fisher present) that le Fondre was his preferred choice.
Le fondre "I was right to choose reading over Coventry"

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

I seem to remember Thorn went on record in address to London Supporters Club (with Fisher present) that le Fondre was his preferred choice.
Le fondre "I was right to choose reading over Coventry"

I agree that reading is more important; however, I wish SISU had studied maths more before running our beloved club!

 

[clint van damme]

just been away for a few days with very limited access to the internet or the outside world - I'm assuming no developments then?

 

[Mcbean]

Well there s an election going on with a bunch of comedians on all sides - sounds pretty much like CCFC :happy:

 

[Brylowes]

just been away for a few days with very limited access to the internet or the outside world - I'm assuming no developments then?

Where Did you go, 'Bedworth' ?

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

"Very limited access" sometimes there are more buses in the town than people. Internet might be another matter we all have to take our turn on the bike to generate enough juice to keep our Commodores and zx81's going.

 

[robbiekeane]

Do you understand how a hedge fund works?

Yes

Do you know how many investors Joy has?

No, where did I say or imply this and how is it relevant?

Do you know how many have invested so far?

See above

You have as much of a clue as me

About the above? Yeh probably. Would hazard a guess I know a bit more about hedge funds/other financial instruments though.

I know how hedge funds work. But I'm not going to pretend that I know what Joy has been doing

Did I?

At a rough guess I would say that they have put in about 25m to 30m. From this they have Ryton with planning permission. This is said to be worth about 6m. Then you have player valuations. And you still have the name CCFC. Money could come in from previous sales like Wilson. Then you have the high interest loans. Put this together with income (Fisher announced we made a profit) and on paper they could have made a decent income last season. But the income isn't payable yet.

It was the usual gamble for a hedge fund. High risk for hopefully a high return. The punt on getting us to the Prem failed. The punt on getting the Ricoh cheap failed. Some will have lost their bottle and lost money. Some will be hanging on waiting for a profit. And the odds are that the investment is lumped in with others that are doing better.

Unless you are gullible you would only put a small amount of your money in high risk. If it all went well they would have made a small fortune. Me? I wouldn't risk my money in something that is high risk. I am an investor. But I do low to medium on long term. I have a fair quantity from 1 company that I have been buying for 20 years. I bought my 1st lot about 20 years ago. I paid $47 each share. With the exchange rate and fees they cost me just over £28 each. Now they trade at about $130 per share. With the present exchange rate they are worth about £100 each. But on top of that they pay a dividend of about 5% per annum. And it all goes into buying more. I am satisfied with my return. But those who are into high risk would laugh at my return. They would hope for the same returns in 5 years or less. They understand that not all investments pay off. 100k to them is like 1k to us. A considerable amount of money but nothing worth losing sleep over. My investment is a part of my retirement fund. Their investment is a bit of fun with the potential of making a lot of

Thanks for that but I'm not sure if you missed my point or not?
Whatever the set up, if I invest directly through a hedge fund, or via a pension fund or any other kind of vehicle, I'm not only interested in some kind of annual yield/interest payout(as has been suggested a few times) as if it was a risk free bond or something but I want to know what the present valuation of my total investment is if I want to pull the plug right now. Know what I mean? This whole thing around SISU only hanging around because they don't want to realise losses and tell their investors is bollocks. The investors will know, and if they don't know because it's somehow masked with all these other investments then it would have to be a drop in the ocean wouldn't it, in which case why would they still bother with it?

 

[Astute]

Yes

No, where did I say or imply this and how is it relevant?


See above

About the above? Yeh probably. Would hazard a guess I know a bit more about hedge funds/other financial instruments though.

Did I?

Thanks for that but I'm not sure if you missed my point or not?
Whatever the set up, if I invest directly through a hedge fund, or via a pension fund or any other kind of vehicle, I'm not only interested in some kind of annual yield/interest payout(as has been suggested a few times) as if it was a risk free bond or something but I want to know what the present valuation of my total investment is if I want to pull the plug right now. Know what I mean? This whole thing around SISU only hanging around because they don't want to realise losses and tell their investors is bollocks. The investors will know, and if they don't know because it's somehow masked with all these other investments then it would have to be a drop in the ocean wouldn't it, in which case why would they still bother with it?

So after all that do you have a point?

So you say that you don't have a clue but you do know for sure by the sound of it exactly what is going on.

 

[Brylowes]

Yes

Thanks for that but I'm not sure if you missed my point or not?
Whatever the set up, if I invest directly through a hedge fund, or via a pension fund or any other kind of vehicle, I'm not only interested in some kind of annual yield/interest payout(as has been suggested a few times) as if it was a risk free bond or something but I want to know what the present valuation of my total investment is if I want to pull the plug right now. Know what I mean? This whole thing around SISU only hanging around because they don't want to realise losses and tell their investors is bollocks. The investors will know, and if they don't know because it's somehow masked with all these other investments then it would have to be a drop in the ocean wouldn't it, in which case why would they still bother with it?

I am definitely no expert so could be way off the mark, I get what you're saying about Investors
being able to find out at any time how their investment in a fund was performing.
But they wouldn't necessarily know how any one particular investment the fund makes is getting
On would it, i.e. I give 1 million to a hedge fund, they would spread that investment far and wide
Wouldn't they. So you wouldn't really know what a mess they had made of any one investment.

My head hurts, not even sure I'm making any sense at all, or at least explaining what I mean, I
Do know I just said investment far more times than ever need to be Said in two sentences.:banghead:

 

[robbiekeane]

So after all that do you have a point?

So you say that you don't have a clue but you do know for sure by the sound of it exactly what is going on.

How can you not see my point? Are you being stupid or just belligerent?

When did I ever say I know exactly what's going on?

It's like you didn't even read my post.

 

[Astute]

How can you not see my point? Are you being stupid or just belligerent?

When did I ever say I know exactly what's going on?

It's like you didn't even read my post.

I'm starting to wish that I hadn't. You could do with reading it yourself.

OK. You have been saying that you know that the investors know how much money they have invested/lost in our club. You say that they know what the balance sheet looks like. You know that they get frequent updates on profit/losses at our club. Yet you admit that you know fuck all about how it is run by SISU.

So how do you know all this when nobody else does?

One more thing. Why do you agree with Brylowes post where he says that they don't necessarily know where their money is invested when you are saying the total opposite?

 

[rupert_bear]

I think those trying to buy our club know a lot more about sisu and how they work than they let on they may even have an idea how much Sepalla wants to get her and her company to move on. This new chap that's joined Hoffman and prepared to it money in is still there and looks to be very serious in his intentions I think it's a case of being patient and determined

 

[Astute]

I think those trying to buy our club know a lot more about sisu and how they work than they let on they may even have an idea how much Sepalla wants to get her and her company to move on. This new chap that's joined Hoffman and prepared to it money in is still there and looks to be very serious in his intentions I think it's a case of being patient and determined

They are business people. I trust them more than shouty people that don't have a clue that say they are going about it the wrong way. There isn't a lot that they can do until Joy is ready to at least talk other than making an offer which is well past the real value of our club. And I wouldn't want people like that running us next.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think those trying to buy our club know a lot more about sisu and how they work than they let on

Shame they didn't do some due diligence first time around, eh...

They are business people. I trust them more...

SISU are business people...

 

[robbiekeane]

I'm starting to wish that I hadn't. You could do with reading it yourself.

OK. You have been saying that you know that the investors know how much money they have invested/lost in our club. You say that they know what the balance sheet looks like. You know that they get frequent updates on profit/losses at our club. Yet you admit that you know fuck all about how it is run by SISU.

So how do you know all this when nobody else does?

One more thing. Why do you agree with Brylowes post where he says that they don't necessarily know where their money is invested when you are saying the total opposite?

In all seriousness can you please provide me some quotes from my posts that say all of the above because all I have said is the below?

I understand your logic but there's no way in hell that investors wouldn't require a "valuation" of their total investment often.

I'm not even deliberately being a dick here I genuinely can't reconcile your post with mine

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

The problem as I see it is this. Sisu have a slim chance at court to get their investment back through damages, this is not hampering a sale its more of a smoke screen. The litigation can continue after a sale. The real crux of the matter is as an investment vehicle you need to know the REAL costs that have been put in to get an idea of what would be a suitable bid. The figures that have been banded around vary between 35 and 70 million but who knows, Sisu will not just walk away with a nose bleed its not their style, while the club is cash neutral they don't have to go anywhere. Cant see and end to their ownership at the minute unless a double figure cash offer in the millions is lodged, I can only see another season under their tenure with things getting spicy after xmas when the stadium situation comes to a head. PUSB

 

[Astute]

Shame they didn't do some due diligence first time around, eh...


SISU are business people...

One side are in the business of providing a service to their customers and want them to be happy. The other side doesn't give a shit about their customers. I'll let you work out which is which

 

[hutch1972]

They are business people. I trust them more than shouty people that don't have a clue that say they are going about it the wrong way. There isn't a lot that they can do until Joy is ready to at least talk other than making an offer which is well past the real value of our club. And I wouldn't want people like that running us next.

We can only hope she has made contact since the last offer.
To lay this completely to rest all they need to do is release an official statement from the owner stating "we are going nowhere".
So far there has been none of that , so hope springs eternal !