D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
They really didn't.
If they did we'd know eaxactly what we were getting, wouldn't we.
General Election (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Liquid Gold
- Start date
If they did we'd know eaxactly what we were getting, wouldn't we.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Of course they did... in fact I couldn't move for the amount of leave voters telling me that Boris' bus was a load of bollocks...
Both sides are very smart? An example. One side has a team of experienced negotiators and deals with most countries in the world. The other voted leave with no trade negotiators and depended on deals made by the club it is leaving. There was no advanced planning, no contingency plans and nobody had discussed things such as hard Brexit and soft Brexit. Up until now - just before leaving negotiations start - one side doesn't know what it is negotiating for - e.g. Hard or soft Brexit. There are 197 trade deals to be negotiated to get back to where we were. Enjoy.
The EU will not give us a better deal than paying in, or even non paying in, members get. Nothing to do with punishment, just that it is the way membership deals work.
Another aspect of jumping ship not knowing what comes next, is the need to crawl round scum like Trump, Saudi and now the religious retards of the DUP to support the party that allowed Brexit to happen without giving the full details of what could happen or what people were voting for. Leave? Ok. What does that mean? Hard for some, soft for others.... Brexit means Brexit means exactly that.... a hollow May phrase like "enough is enough". In other words, Brexit means what you want to believe you voted for, but just like a religious faith there is no substance behind it. Just keep believing in it and you'll be alright.
I sincerely hope that the EU gives us another year to sort out what we actually want as a future trading partner. It will give us time to have the next election based on the economy and whether we still want to go down the stony path of Brexit. Maybe someone can seriously lay out a plan for a non EU Britain which will leave us in a stronger economic position than pre Brexit. We have only had stories of the NHS 350 million per week and a queue of countries dieting to give us better trade deals than the EU negotiators have from the leavers.
Money talks and it does through the economy. Consumer spending down, inflation up, unemployment up, pound down. The message from the economy says it all.
Well there are two ways of looking at that. The other group, but not in your perceived question, would say they were fighting for the right of the majority of people living on an island to be part of a united country ruling their island. The democratic view of the majority of it's, the island of Ireland, would have voted for a united Ireland, which is why they were not asked and some of them became terrorists - or a group fighting for the rights of the majority as you would say.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No excuse for violently murdering, torturing and terrorising other human beings surely
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
A million shades of grey, but only two shades on the piece of card we were choosing from.
Soft Brexit is absolute nonsense and is a term invented by remainers to help them get a little bit of their way in a result they lost.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yes, I know it's one of my concerns about JC. Still, he is far preferable to May.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yes, he probably does.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The fundamental difference between Corbyn and May is that he would listen to your concerns.... she would simply tell you it's your problem and she is right.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Sorry Martcov. That's just crap. I know you admitted you can't accept the result but leave voters just want brexit. Hard and soft was never discussed which at least you admitted until brexit happened then all of a sudden these terms come out to play. Everyone I know who voted brexit has never once mentioned hard or soft to me.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Only a couple of weeks to go and you'll have been ranting and whingeing about the result for a full year!
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
If all she is doing is serving the tea, I reckon she can stay on indefinitely!
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
How would you define the Norway option? Even before the referendum leave politicians were claiming that no one was talking about threatening the country's place in the single market.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
But we knew we were going to simply be further shackled by EU laws, fleeced by the poorer states to improve their infrastructures & swamped by their peoples if we remained.
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Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
You do realise that if you assist poorer countries to develop they become effective trading partners making both countries richer in the long run and completely mitigate the need for economic migration?
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting slant on thing G. And since when did 42% share of the votes cast become a majority in true democracy??? The Tories would only have a 42% say in things one might argue if we were a true(r) democracy with proportional representation.
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Then why did everyone from both campaigns say if we vote to leave we are leaving the single market. David Cameron, nick clegg, farage, Johnson, gove and osbourne. It was said over and over again.the single market is not that bad a thing but it's everything that comes with it that bothers me Sickboy.
As for Norway, they have a deal that suits them. I don't want a Norway deal, we have better cards than they do. We are bigger and better than Norway. Not everyone believes we are that's the problem.
Switzerland and Norway aren't in the EU. They have bespoke deals for them and we need one for us.
Are we substituting the EU with Mali? What electronic goods have Mali to offer? Germany wants to build up Poland as a car market as one of several alternatives to the UK market. Seems they are more sensible. Still good luck with Mali.
Explain why KoK thinks that he voted for hard Brexit when the word hadn't been used before the reality started setting in. He is just one person. Millions thought they were getting soft Brexit. How come? Your agenda is that Brexit means wealth and prosperity for the UK. Bollocks. We haven't even got to the first hurdle and the government is fxxked. Plenty more chaos and bad economic results to come. Certainly hope that you didn't vote knowing what was coming.
Switzerland and Norway don't have the old nostalgia of an ex world power. Both were colonies at some time and both have a sensible attitude when it comes to negotiations with the EU.
We have people who still think that we are an important player on the world stage.
We would still be as a part of trading and political block, but we just blew that. In future we an offshore Island with an interesting history and a an open liberal culture- or rather we would have been if Brexit hadn't brought the little englaender mentality into the open. Cue Ernie and KoK....
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Dear oh dear.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Yes...I even stated that in the run up to the Referendum, where I voted to remain - BUT try telling that to the carpenters, builders, nurses, retail workers & many more besides that cannot feed/clothe their kids properly, or pay the mortgage anymore because they have lost or fear losing their jobs to cheap foreign migrants. And that simply to permit corporations to make even more profit to spirit away from our shores without even paying a fair whack in tax, therefore depriving OUR infrastructure of the investment in needs - hence all the potholes, worries over the NHS, cities & towns & communities in decline..the whole system stinks.
So I can easily & fully understand THAT too...& why the majority vote was to leave!
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I didn't vote for hard brexit. For the one millionth time. I voted to leave the European Union. Simple as that.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
However she wasn't addressing Labour voters but the Tory MPs.
Addressing a meeting of backbenchers, the PM reportedly said she would serve as "long as you want me to do".
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
A remainer who speaks common sense. I applaud you sir. You clearly believed in remain but accept the result and get why. Honorable.
Germany's cars are known for quality and have a world wide reputation- despite the VW scandal. They have agreed compensation and life goes on.
They, Germany, have plans for other countries where there is still room for growth - e.g. Poland.
As you say they are the biggest car export country in the world- they can live without the UK if they have to. What will happen is that the supply chain will have to be changed. Parts that come from England will have to be declared at customs, there may queues at the border and there may be tariffs to pay. car components will be ordered elsewhere in the EU. Not good for the UK. Same goes for the AirBus project.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I voted leave. I want Brexit but at no detriment. I don't trust that Theresa May can deliver that due to her lack of political finesse.
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rob9872
Well-Known Member
That response is so insulting. If you turned that argument to the Asian population in England you'd be called racist and rightly so. The ones being targeted weren't the settlers but generations beyond. You talk about indigenous in the way I'd expect nigel Farage to and I'd bet a pound to a pinch of shit that you hate him. Usual double standards to suit your argument.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I note you said "I want brexit" you didn't tell us whether you wanted hard or soft brexit?
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
I try to look at everything from both sides & as level-headed as I can. Not infallible though, I can be as stubborn as I can be wrong...you ask the wife
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Except. The fear of losing jobs to foreign workers is a bit exaggerated and applies only to certain areas- not to all branches. The NHS still needs workers and farms still need workers - there is still demand although there are foreigners. The market is not flooded.
How many benefit people blame it on the foreigners? How many low skilled and poorly educated people blame it on the foreigners? I can believe that some are unfairly affected by competition, but from what I have experienced here the jobs where most low paid foreigners work are the jobs that the natives don't consider good jobs or simply prefer not to do.
When my niece complained that her foreman was Polish and earned more than her, I pointed out that she was living in a country that spoke her mother tongue and that she had had a free education which she had not used. It was not the Polish guy's fault that she was a packer on a conveyor belt. There are many leavers who think like her which is a pity.
He said at no detriment- was there a box to tick for that at the referendum? Another version of leave. No one really knew what they were voting for. You guys keep confirming it.
It also goes without saying. Another Brexit means Brexit, Enough is Enough meaningless May phrase.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Don't know why we're wasting two years with all this negotiating lark when we all know what we're getting at the end of it.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Chaos?