London fire (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
- Start date
dutchman
Well-Known Member
The council are refusing to test tower blocks in the city on the grounds that they're owned by Whitefriars. Whitefriars refuse to divulge details of their testing arrangements or answer any further questions on the subject.
Why won’t Coventry landlord Whitefriars fit life-saving sprinklers in all 24 tower blocks and 17,000 homes? Our questions it refused to answer
Why won’t Coventry landlord Whitefriars fit life-saving sprinklers in all 24 tower blocks and 17,000 homes? Our questions it refused to answer
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
If councils are being expected to fund any changes, what will be cut to pay for it?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That can't be true. The government told us no measures needed to be put in place to force landlords to carry out tests as they are all so responsible and care so much for the tenants they would do it voluntarily.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I heard the housing minister on Radio 5 and Radio 4 this morning. Unhelpfully answered virtually no questions and referred back to the robotic 'lessons will be learned'
Was interesting to hear him challenged on why the Tories blocked the bill on privately rented accommodation last year.... but he didn't answer it.
Was interesting to hear him challenged on why the Tories blocked the bill on privately rented accommodation last year.... but he didn't answer it.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
A bit like John McDonnells helpful input and calling murder. We need more helpful information.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The information is there - the bill was blocked by 312 Tory MP's - none from Lab, Lib Dem, SNP.
72 of those who blocked it are private landlords.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
did they block the bill?
I cannot answer that as I am not privy to who voted what,also I arguing against the impression that there no Labour landlords
It would not be the first time that people have hidden their intentions by voting one way knowing that the result would be what they secretly wanted,and we all know how hypocritical people can be.
Regards.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't take too much into this, you can guarantee every HA, LA and contractor are reviewing every high rise project they have/had and assessing the risk. This whole episode will result in a lot of finger pointing, legal action around who should be 'responsible'. This is a process of bunkering down, reviewing positions and assessing risk but you can guarantee they are not ignoring this.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Seeing as there were a total of 0 MP's inside of the Labour Party that opposed the move it kind of makes your point moot.
Tories vote down law requiring landlords make their homes fit for human habitation
Tories have twice blocked Labour legislation to make rented homes – including council houses – safer.
Tories reject move to ensure rented homes fit for human habitation
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Right so they are murderers then? That's what McDonnell has said.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
what would make you say that? His post is factual, there was a bill aimed at preventing events like Grenfell and 312 tories blocked it, 72 of whom were private landlords.
You seem more upset by John McDonnells rhetoric, (well the small bit you are quoting), than by the fact that dozens of people have died - very strange.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I shall try again? Is John McDonnell right?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
As chiefdave was good enough to put the whole qyuote in context...
Would you agree that it is inappropriate to make "decisions not to build homes and to view housing as only for financial speculation rather than for meeting a basic human need"?
Otis
Well-Known Member
They'll just tax the poor I guess.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Money won't just appear, that's for sure.
Could be a disaster for hard pressed local authorities, unless they're helped out centrally.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I will answer your question. People need to answer mine.
I think it is more inappropriate and it's disgraceful. There is a massive problem and a bigger issue I agree but to call people murderers is not just dangerous and unhelpful but it is actually by law wrong.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't agree with his terminology, but I'll give him a pass when the subject is so emotive and there are bigger issues to worry about. Is his concern genuine? Who knows, he is a politician.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Whitefriars has a long history of lying to its tenant, issuing false assurances, hiring independent assessors to inspect properties and then ignoring their recommendations.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
So we've essentially established the Tories lack a conscience.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Explain the rationale for blocking the amendment?
Why one earth would any person vote against it... never mind in excess of 300 people elected to represent the people of this country?
Do you think their constituents would be comfortable in knowing that this 'essentially' reflected their will?
Murderers they may not be.... but selfish, arrogant and only interested in their self and any financial gain that follows - absolutely.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yes that's all I was after. That answer. They are not murderers. Can't be by law. But everything you said in your last paragraph is spot on.
The Govt are asking all Councils to send in samples.
The BRE have capacity for 100 tests a day.
Looks like some arm twisting will be required, CCC/Whitefriars response doesn't surprise me at all, just disgusts me.
It's as I thought unfortunately, that Building control has been largely franchised out over the last 25-30 years, where developers can use consultants to certify.
Arnold Tarling appears to be a bit of an anorak /zealot on the subject but unfortunately he's correct, the quality and training of those charged with assessing /overseeing adherence to regulation has fallen.
I'll say it again the surface spread test applied to these products was wholly inappropriate and and only suitable for internal applications over continuous mono applications.
The BRE have capacity for 100 tests a day.
Looks like some arm twisting will be required, CCC/Whitefriars response doesn't surprise me at all, just disgusts me.
It's as I thought unfortunately, that Building control has been largely franchised out over the last 25-30 years, where developers can use consultants to certify.
Arnold Tarling appears to be a bit of an anorak /zealot on the subject but unfortunately he's correct, the quality and training of those charged with assessing /overseeing adherence to regulation has fallen.
I'll say it again the surface spread test applied to these products was wholly inappropriate and and only suitable for internal applications over continuous mono applications.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Said on R4 that the normal test just applied fire to the surface, this applies it directly to the insulation.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I get this argument, but in reality people use the words murder and manslaughter interchangeably outside the courts.
Yes Manslaughter would be the correct term.
To who that applies is debatable.
The conditions set for such a tragedy to manifest have been via 40 years of deregulation and cost cutting.
It will be down to ineptitude in the monitoring at Grenfell or Illegal practice by the Contractors.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
net result - people are dead when they needn't be. (not meaning to be trivial at all)
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Some excellent points on here ian. Thanks for sharing. Murderers emotive and wrong. Dead due to political inaction was right
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
There was this Aussie expert on R5 this morning, seemed to talk a lot of sense, it wasn't just about cladding.
Worth a listen he found numerous minor issues (on different block entirely to Camden/Grenfell) which added up.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
You mean like most of the country on this issue?
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Landlords are refusing to submit their cladding to tests, reveals Sajid Javid
"The combustibility test has three categories rated one to three and it is judged that cladding material in categories two or three does not meet the requirements for limited combustibility in building regulations.
"I can also confirm to the House that, so far, on that basis, all samples of cladding tested have failed.
"The fact that all samples so far have failed underlines the value of the testing programme and the vital importance of submitting samples urgently."
He added: "I am concerned about the speed at which samples are being submitted.
"I would urge all landlords to submit their samples immediately."
"The combustibility test has three categories rated one to three and it is judged that cladding material in categories two or three does not meet the requirements for limited combustibility in building regulations.
"I can also confirm to the House that, so far, on that basis, all samples of cladding tested have failed.
"The fact that all samples so far have failed underlines the value of the testing programme and the vital importance of submitting samples urgently."
He added: "I am concerned about the speed at which samples are being submitted.
"I would urge all landlords to submit their samples immediately."
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Not helped by Downing Street saying the private landlords weren't obliged to test anything...