Court Match Thread (3 Viewers)

[RoboCCFC90]

Joy doesn't looked to of aged well at all.

Can't see this going SISU's way tbh.

 

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[shmmeee]

Yes but surely if the date has passed and it had been too long they wouldn't even allow today?

Think the point is that Sisu came in just under the wire intentionally. But tbh all these court hearings have ever shown me is i don't understand legal minutiae

 

[oldskyblue58]

When the defence say on delay alone, it doesn't mean that's the only defence, it means that on that ground alone it should be refused but there are other grounds if the delay argument is not accepted

For judicial reviews I believe there is a general rule of three months from the decision to make the claim, even that is not hard and fast as it could be held a shorter period could apply depending on nature of the claim.

It makes sense to deal with the delay, because if that is accepted by the judge then that's the end of it. SISU would have to find grounds why the time limit doesn't apply to be able to continue or appeal

Keep in mind a JR is about the procedure to arrive at the decision 07/10/2014 with the known facts at that time

 

[Nick]

Think the point is that Sisu came in just under the wire intentionally. But tbh all these court hearings have ever shown me is i don't understand legal minutiae

You can't use words like that on a Friday afternoon.

 

[SkyBlue79]

Again it doesn't matter. They didn't give anyone the opportunity to bid on those same terms for a publicly owned asset. Claims that Sisu would not have bid on those terms are clearly incorrect as they attempted to purchase the Higgs share at the last minute.

Don't get me wrong, if Sisu win this case they don't win the Ricoh back - the damage is already done, but it is clear, at least from my perspective that CCC made sure that they were shafted (with proof to back this up - "hell freezes over" etc).

If I went to the council and offered them some money to buy some land, it would be offered as commercial in confidence from my part so value should be private. Do the council have to go out and put the land up for auction with my offer as a minimum bid? Or can they get a valuation and make an informed choice whether to accept.

It sounds like CCC may have gone down the line of get a valuation by KPMG and make an informed choice. Therefore, will KPMG be under scrutiny should Sisu be awarded damages, based on an ill informed valuation? It sounds like CCC have made life hard for Sisu, personally, I don't think you can blame them. However you should always follow governance and best practice whether you "like" someone you need to work with or not.

 

[shmmeee]

You can't use words like that on a Friday afternoon.

Translation: I don't get all that fancy lawyer speak.

 

[Nick]

When the defence say on delay alone, it doesn't mean that's the only defence, it means that on that ground alone it should be refused but there are other grounds if the delay argument is not accepted

For judicial reviews I believe there is a general rule of three months from the decision to make the claim, even that is not hard and fast as it could be held a shorter period could apply depending on nature of the claim.

It makes sense to deal with the delay, because if that is accepted by the judge then that's the end of it. SISU would have to find grounds why the time limit doesn't apply to be able to continue or appeal

Keep in mind a JR is about the procedure to arrive at the decision 07/10/2014 with the known facts at that time

Never understood the "at that time" stuff. Especially as something could come out in an email from 8/10/2014 where lucas says "I did it all, take me to jail" and it cant be used as evidence.

 

[Nick]

We’re back underway
James Goudie, the council’s QC, is back on his feet.

He starts by saying he’s confused about what council decision exactly Sisu wish to challenge.

He says the Ricoh Arena business share transfer by the council and the lease extension seem to be the two decisions being challenged. He says the share sale seems to have been added late. But now Sisu seem to have changed their mind about that.

He says the share sale aspect should be removed from the claim form.

Lawyer speak for "Delete your account".

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just to be clear on a date also. The Strutt & Parker valuation according to their valuation report in the prospectus was based on inspections in September 2014 and January 2015. It is an opinion of worth of the lease to Wasps not of its value to CCC/AEHC at October 2014. It includes different elements to the KPMG valuation for the CCC sale. Is there a difference in value? who knows all we have is expert opinion, but the ACL accounts included the at net book value of just over £18m without a sports team tied to the stadium for any length of time. Do Wasps actually pay ACL a rent? if so then that's going to be included in the lease value isn't it?

 

[vow]

I can't be bothered to open photoshop and get some ducks, but hopefully they will be having a dukdoo.

"Whats a duck do?"

"quack quack"

Wrong thread m8, crap jokes in the other one.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Again it doesn't matter. They didn't give anyone the opportunity to bid on those same terms for a publicly owned asset. Claims that Sisu would not have bid on those terms are clearly incorrect as they attempted to purchase the Higgs share at the last minute.

Don't get me wrong, if Sisu win this case they don't win the Ricoh back - the damage is already done, but it is clear, at least from my perspective that CCC made sure that they were shafted (with proof to back this up - "hell freezes over" etc).

As you've said it a number of times I'll now bite. It is far from clear that anything illegal happened. Sisu pissed the council off and the council pissed Sisu off. The loser has and will always be ccfc and us and that's s crying shame.

 

[Nick]

Wrong thread m8, crap jokes in the other one.

I just cut the waiting for a reply out and went on with it to get it out of the way.

 

[vow]

It's all good man.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I think SISU have moved away from challenging the share sale primarily to focus on the lease extension. If they can get the judge to focus on that then they can seek to apply the s123 conditions that apply to the disposal of land or leases over 7yrs in term. That takes in the bidding process, valuation, public offer etc, but the exact process is not a definite set of rules only guidance and doesn't have to be followed

Even so they then still have to prove that the procedure has been wrong in order to win the case. Could a lease that is dependent on owning the original lease be offered to the public for anything at all?

 

[Nick]

"No breach of state aid"
Council QC says: “We say, as in JR1, there is no breach of state aid, and none of domestic law.”

Mr Goudie argues, from previous case law, that council’s do not have to market land prior to sale and it doesn’t have to get a valuation.

surely the judge can say "correct, they didnt have to lets go home"

 

[Nick]

Lease extension eventually sold for £1 million
He says there was a “perfectly proper valuation” in the case of the Ricoh Arena sale.

He also says the council took advice from KPMG and the lease extension was valued at £400,000 and £600,000. It was eventually sold at £1 million.

He says that means “there can be no argument the decision was irrational - and the independent valuation went above what the law required”.

Mr Goudie says extending the lease to 250 years “effectively made it a freehold valuation”.

He says that valuation was based on rent to be received post 2053 at the expiration of the existing ACL lease.

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

Joy doesn't looked to of aged well at all.

Can't see this going SISU's way tbh.

Help the aged

 

[oldskyblue58]

Again it doesn't matter. They didn't give anyone the opportunity to bid on those same terms for a publicly owned asset. Claims that Sisu would not have bid on those terms are clearly incorrect as they attempted to purchase the Higgs share at the last minute.

Don't get me wrong, if Sisu win this case they don't win the Ricoh back - the damage is already done, but it is clear, at least from my perspective that CCC made sure that they were shafted (with proof to back this up - "hell freezes over" etc).

and bid a similar amount to Wasps for the Charity shares, and in doing so put forward their own valuation at the time of 50% of ACL including a lease valued at £18m and a loan at £14m didn't they? Now they argue it should have been more? Clearly they didn't think so at the time. The lease extension depended on Wasps getting the AEHC shares .........

 

[Liquid Gold]

Wrong thread m8, crap jokes in the other one.

How do you pronounce wrong?

 

[vow]

How do you pronounce wrong?

Rong again, it's just rong.

 

[stevefloyd]

The CET site has come up with an ad for Anusol on the court proceedings page. How bloody apt.

They should come up with thrush cream for irritating cunts

 

[stevefloyd]

Alopecia?

She is hair today wish she would be gone by tomorrow

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

They should come up with thrush cream for irritating cunts

And something for her bad hair!!

 

[SkyBlue79]

If KPMG provided a valuation for the lease extension and that was matched, is that not the end of the argument? I'm not sure what else the guidelines that OSB58 would include about the correct process for disposal of land.

 

[vow]

They should come up with thrush cream for irritating cunts

here you go Steve.

 

[vow]

Perhaps Anusol too.

 

[Nick]

She reads a statement from Nick Eastwood, Wasps CEO, who says the club’s first visit to the Ricoh was December 2013 when CCFC had moved out.

Didn't the council say at the time nothing happened until about the June before the sale?

 

[Chipfat]

Sisu QC dropped his case in court!!!!! I wish Sisu would do the same..

 

[wingy]

Seems Ms Morris has outlined the point at which legal noise became a barrier.

 

[Covstu]

What's the score?

 

[Nick]

I reckon still 0-0 but the ref will call it in the councils favour before calling time.

 

[wingy]

In Injury time now.
The weekend is on us and the Holiday Season under way.
They can just make the red eye down to Provence.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Going to depend how much reading the Judge has still to do of the written submissions he already has that accompany this day in court but I wouldn't expect a decision before Tuesday possibly not till end of next week.

edit Decision today That just shows I can be wrong Lol

 

[oldskyblue58]

if council lawyer going on length of time argument one wonders how strong their defence is

SISU lawyer spending a lot of time on it too...... does that make it a weakness on their part?

If they fail to convince the judge they acted timely manner and the delays not their fault then barring an appeal that's it done

 

[Super_Johnny_Gayle]

£30M in damages??? WTF