SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Expected response...that's a British border!
As you are trying so hard to be a smartarse - I thought I would do the same.
But you are right...no one is interested in who you are
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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (107 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
As you are trying so hard to be a smartarse - I thought I would do the same.
But you are right...no one is interested in who you are
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In other words you cannot name a nation without borders, but you don't like such nations.
I see.
I am not being a smartarse. It may seem so to you though.
You should meet him. Two peas in a pod.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Bit hypocritical as your wife no doubt came into the UK thanks to freedom of movement?
I also assume that there's no way that any future children of yours would take up the option of an EU passport?
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I really struggle with your point.
What has any of this got to do with (indenting to become) illegal entrants coming to this (Britain...not Germany) country & your seeming opinion that that is absolutely fine. My assertion that that course of action opens up 'floodgates' for people in unknown & inestimable numbers to then descend upon us placing a strain on our infrastructure?
If other countries wish to welcome such migration that is up to them.
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
You know nothing of great substance of me or my general opinions - so go climb back into bed with Mrs Merkle
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I have never said that I think illegal immigration is fine. I wondered about your use of the word "unpalatable solutions" and some of your examples.
The U.K. Is an island which makes life easier when you want to control borders. You keep talking about a disastrous situation of nations with no borders. I asked you to name one.
You said Scotland. Nuff said.
It was Farage with his poster of refugees flooding in to Croatia which put the sxxxs up people like yourself.
I said I hate Farage. Partly because of such stunts as the poster.
I only know what you keep repeating on here. You are scared stiff of open borders - which you cannot give an example of. "Open borders" is a catch phrase of Farage. Which puts you in his club.
More than that I don't know about you.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Where did I say I was scared stiff of of anything. I don't agree with things.
But do you know what you have gone so fuck-off far from the original point, I really don't know if you're trying to convince me of something or wind me up. You're doing neither. You are convincing me that you're an assumtpive, clever-cock though...with a very closed mind.
I can't actually remember now what if anything I have said or have been assumed to say about these open borders. All I am saying is that people living in Calais are choosing to live in the awful conditions somebody mentioned in an effort to illegally enter the UK. You made some suggestion that they should be allowed in & our EU neighbours vindictively letting them across the channel is acceptable. I say if we just accept them - floodgates open & our infrastructure is under even greater strain. I don't see what there is to dispute with that. Its logical.
Can't be arsed to reply to you anymore if you're not going to put some rational point over.
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I merely said that France ( including Macron ) talked about moving the border from Calais back to Dover now that we are leaving the EU after you went on about the "illegals" in Calais waiting to get a chance to come to Britain.
You had the unpalatable solutions and mentioned not liking nations with open borders.
You couldn't name one of these nations.
I also said that deciding who comes in is not so easy because of international laws, agreements etc., and that sending people home or to other countries is also not always an easy solution for several reasons which I listed.
That's all.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Right...well I stand by the first point because of the reasons I have mentioned enough. The EU has freedom of movement between countries. That is legal...and showing of passports is supposed to be proof enough of EU citizenship. No issues there.
We agree it isn't an easy decision who comes in. But my take is that they are as safe in France as they are in Britain...so they should stay in France if they seek some asylum of sorts...or France can send them back to Spain or Greece or wherever if they can prove where they are from.
The examples I gave were obviously unpalatable ones...not my suggestions, which you could've probably rightly assumed but chose not to. But clearly - a solution has to be found. Preferably one that doesn't encourage all & sundry to think 'let's go to Britain' (illegally). At the very least that will be unpalatable to those in Calais trying to get here...but probably to others too. The alternative is to overload the country & it's infrastructure imo.
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Well, the EU and Merkel talk is a sort of Marshall plan for North Africa. The main reason for leaving family and friends is to escape poverty. The logic is to finance the economy of these countries ( North African ) to create jobs and give people a chance to make a living in their own country.
People believe that we are richer than we are. They only have to watch western TV or films to see the lives we lead - but, the films don't usually show people going to work everyday and maybe night to get by. They think they can make it to a level as seen in films by just getting to a "rich" country. We are a magnet because of this.
Young people will continue trying to better themselves and emigration was always an option. You won't change that, but we have to get their countries moving to at least offer the option of getting on at home.
There is no easy solution. Trying to shut the border and hope that the problem will go away won't solve the problem. Plus, other countries will insist on sharing the burden. If we don't share the burden our trading partners may take some form of action against us ( as is being considered against the Visigard countries),
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Yes...so after all that - we are actually somewhat on the same page afterall!?
Solutions are needed. They should perhaps begin with a better distribution of profit & wealth...but that's another draconian solution - a modern day international Robin Hood to convince these mega-stupid-rich that the legacy they leave behind can be so much bigger & better for the planet & life upon it than a business & container ships full of cash.
Political meddling in foreign climes is another...if it is funding 'rebels' all it appears to cause is war somewhere down the line. The UN should surely be in agreement that their forces should be used to distribute food in starving nations without appeasement of financial reward for powerbrokers & 'leaders' & then get businesses to invest in solving or developing back up plans for overcoming the issues of the famine in the first place.
Its all a very complex dilemma - but if we put our minds to it there ARE good and workable solutions. There always is.
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Doesn't surprise me. Who needs bureaucracy anyway.... ethical considerations or public health considerations? Na. We need a trade deal sharpish....
If we do import things not approved by the EU, then the EU will have to have stringent border checks to enforce EU import regulations in case people here reexport to the EU.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
I'd take a Certified US Beef steak any day over one of your EU Bulgarian 'pork' sausages.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Not really, like the confusion between Europe and the EU, not having freedom of movement does not mean we cannot have any movement.
Plus, if you met my wife and talked to her about what the EU has done to her country, you probably wouldn't be quite as pro-EU.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Ethical considerations - don't make me laugh - take a look at the horse meat deregulations in the EU since 2008 - shipments to the eu from the uk often breach DEFRA rules and regulations.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Which happens because we have free trade with the EU. Are you suggesting that the EU carry out the same checks internally as the do from non EU members? US beef and chicken are already banned in the EU because of the way they farm. It would be naive to think that imports from the UK won't be more stringently checked if we're a known importer of US beef. That is extra costs to the UK beef market. Do you have any idea of the costs of third party inspection of goods being exported? It's also in my experience the responsibility of the importer to cover the costs of said third party inspection. That would automatically increase the cost of getting British beef onto the tables of EU countries. Who do we export most of our beef to I wonder? It's not the US that is for sure.
You also claim to be an animal lover. Do you think that if we start importing cheap, battery farmed beef from America British farmers won't change from free range farming of beef to battery farming like in America to compete?
Have you seen cattle farming in America? The cows never leave the shed's and the fields are used to grow GM modified crops for cattle feed and they then inject the cows with a cocktail of chemicals and hormones to help replicate what happens naturally in free range beef.
I don't think you've thought this through.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Apart from when it suits you, it seems. I would rather see how the EU had helped transform Ireland and brought peace to the island, thanks. It would be a bit sad if I met you and your wife and we discussed the EU.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well done Tony after weeks and weeks I have finally looked at one of your comments
So lets explore the EU record on animal welfare shall we? As my statement was specifically aimed at the EU.
Here is a statement from an organisation I significantly contribute to regarding the EU and its animal welfare policy;
The European Union (EU) recognises farm animals as sentient beings1, capable of experiencing suffering. Despite this, tens of billions of animals endure short, miserable lives in factory farms2, where the priority is simply to produce as much meat, milk and eggs as quickly and cheaply as possible.
3.
An egg-laying hen in a barren battery cage often spends her whole life crammed into a space smaller than an A4 sheet of paper per animal
CIWF (2011)4
5.
The European Food Safety Authority reported that over 90% of Europe's pigs are tail-docked despite it being illegal to perform routinely.
European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) (2007)6
As for horse shipments the rules established by DEFRA have been blatantly ignored due to the European desire for horse meat at low cost. This has been known for years and a major area of concern,
EXCLUSIVE: British horses being shipped across Europe and sold for meat
The 2008 EU directive was a disgrace
The EU make a statement regarding experimentation but ignores that France has the largest legitimised animal experiment testing across Europe with 2 MILLION a year - many dogs.
Spain is a fucking disgrace - I would never holiday in that barbaric country which has a medieval view of animals. Does the EU still use the agriculture budget to subsidise it? I can't be bothers, or dare, to look. Greece and its legitimised barbaric treatment of donkeys and the backward states such as Romania make me shudder
Much of Europe in my experience is backward regarding animal welfare and many societies are feudal compared to ours. Still I reacted to a post of yours so I guess that makes you happy.
Don't call me someone who claims to care about animal welfare. Fuck off and back to ignore
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The point is whatever standards they have between member states they just ignore them!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
So shouldn't the focus be on ensuring the standards are met rather than doing a deal to lower the standards?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Dave I'm involved closely with a horse charity. This issue irks me. It's a joke. It has tried to prevent illegal horse exportation and its ignored. The EU has an appalling record in this area. We won't change it as every other country in the EU practically begs for if. Germany is an exception before Martcov kicks off.
Anyway I am on the record as for my views on May and animal welfare - ivory trade legitimacy is appalling. Let's not pretend for one second though pretend the EU and its legitimacy of animal cruelty and blood sports is nothing but disgraceful.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
This is all due to people wanting to eat more meat and for as cheap as possible. Let's not pretend there's no battery farming going on here though and there's no mistreatment. Going even lower with US standards is not the answer. There needs to be a massive change in the way people consume meat. These days I only organic meat or meat from a farm shop
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Don't think I've said we are any better. I'm merely pointing out the EU had an animal werefare charter then blatantly ignored it
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
No reason to go even lower though, as I'm sure you agree.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What a fucking clown you are. You'll happily ignore the battery farming of cows to prove a political point. I wasn't even arguing that animal welfare in the EU was great, I was just pointing out that it's much better than the US. We free range our cattle in a natural environment. Unlike the US. What does your organization have to say about US farming principles? I bet you ignore that you sanctimonious prick because you can't point score if you acknowledge it. I've never met someone with such an array of principles on the same subject. You still think it means you're never wrong because you don't have the intellect to realise that by the same token it means you're never right. What a knob head.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You'd think. Especially if you claim to be an animal lover. You certainly wouldn't use the lesser of two evils to point score the other.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Same here. We've cut down on meat at home for that very reason. I'd rather eat it less and pay more I'm the knowledge that it was farmed ethically. Taste better too. Same for eggs. Organic free range taste so good I can't understand why anyone would consider buying battery eggs. And that's even before you get into the ethics.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Which in itself is no great shakes is it? Many from Britain go to the states & wax lyrical about the quality & quantity & price value of their steaks.
As long as it is clearly labelled as whatever it is we will have the option to avoid or buy. Although, do we trust that to happen?
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Just wondering if the latest reports on 'Made in China 2025' about ship-building & no doubt cars & everything are part of some unspoken political strategy in the UK?
Reuters: European shipbuilders' dominance in the $117 billion passenger ship industry may come under threat as Chinese rivals move into the sector to tap booming local demand for cruise holidays.
China's government has earmarked cruise shipbuilding as a major objective in its "Made in China 2025" programme to upgrade its domestic manufacturing and support jobs at its shipyards, as domestic demand for cruise trips increases 30 percent a year.
This push into the higher-value cruise vessel sector is rattling European yards, leaders in an industry that requires sophisticated supply chains to make and fit out complex luxury liners. Some European shipbuilders fear China could come to dominate the cruise ship market, much as it has done in cargo ships over recent decades.
"This is a state objective that threatens to cause tremendous distortion in competition," said Reinhard Luken, chief executive of the German Shipbuilding and Ocean Industries Association (VSM), which represents German maritime firms such as shipbuilders Meyer Werft and Meyer Turku.
"There are almost endless resources available if China has set a goal."
Still, learning how to build cruise ships will not be easy for the Chinese, given the complex web of suppliers needed to furnish items from luxury carpets to soundproofing, industry experts say.
Japan's Mitsubishi Heavy Industries quit building European cruise liners in October after its losses on two vessels for cruise operator Carnival Corp topped $2 billion.
"It's a hotel on the sea, (and) requires at least a few hundred suppliers," said Lin Li, general manager at Lloyds' Register's Greater China marine and offshore business development department.
China's shift into the cruise sector also comes as global demand for cargo ships has collapsed, shuttering scores of Chinese yards
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Reuters: European shipbuilders' dominance in the $117 billion passenger ship industry may come under threat as Chinese rivals move into the sector to tap booming local demand for cruise holidays.
China's government has earmarked cruise shipbuilding as a major objective in its "Made in China 2025" programme to upgrade its domestic manufacturing and support jobs at its shipyards, as domestic demand for cruise trips increases 30 percent a year.
This push into the higher-value cruise vessel sector is rattling European yards, leaders in an industry that requires sophisticated supply chains to make and fit out complex luxury liners. Some European shipbuilders fear China could come to dominate the cruise ship market, much as it has done in cargo ships over recent decades.
"This is a state objective that threatens to cause tremendous distortion in competition," said Reinhard Luken, chief executive of the German Shipbuilding and Ocean Industries Association (VSM), which represents German maritime firms such as shipbuilders Meyer Werft and Meyer Turku.
"There are almost endless resources available if China has set a goal."
Still, learning how to build cruise ships will not be easy for the Chinese, given the complex web of suppliers needed to furnish items from luxury carpets to soundproofing, industry experts say.
Japan's Mitsubishi Heavy Industries quit building European cruise liners in October after its losses on two vessels for cruise operator Carnival Corp topped $2 billion.
"It's a hotel on the sea, (and) requires at least a few hundred suppliers," said Lin Li, general manager at Lloyds' Register's Greater China marine and offshore business development department.
China's shift into the cruise sector also comes as global demand for cargo ships has collapsed, shuttering scores of Chinese yards
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