The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (26 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
So that's that settled then. No reason not to import products of a lower ethical or health standard. More benefits of taking our country back.
More efficient production methods = cheaper food.
I still think that, although it is tempting to rush into deals which lower standards, we will suffer some way in the end as we did with BSE.
All this anti EU regulations talk in this case is just a cover for the farming industry- excepting the smaller farmers - who just want to get a return on their investment. A US deal involving such things as chlorine chicken will pressure British farmers into doing similar things in order to compete.
If the EU ban has nothing to do with welfare or health, but benefits those things, then it is still a good thing.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So now you swivel - it's nothing to do with health as the European food standards agency conceded that the food is not harmful as there is less chlorine than in water. In fact it may be beneficial as its aim is to reduce known bacteria in battery darned animals.
It has zero to do with animal welfare at all as the standards for battery animals is broadly similar.
The reason is price. It's price fixing through the back door. Price of American imported food would be around 20% cheaper. So this is old fashioned EU protectionism forcing consumers to pay more.
This bluster about welfare standards and health is bollocks.
That's the facts isn't it Mart?
Of course it has to do with money, but the argument here is that it is better to keep bacteria to a minimum rather than relax the efforts whilst the chickens are alive and then kill all the bacteria in the carcasses.
This means production is more expensive in the EU - not price fixing, but stopping lowering the bar for production.
In the end the EU will do a deal with the US as Trump has already said he is going to renegotiate trade deals with EU. We may all be eating chlorine chicken in the end anyway. I would still prefer to be dealing with Trump with a stronger hand than post Brexit Britain.
Anyway it doesn't condone lowering the bar in desperation because we're fxxked without Trump. We were part of a trading bloc with experienced negotiators. Now we are a 65 million country with no trade deals of our own.
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No.
Modern Farmer: Despite claims that chlorine treatments reduces the risk of bacterial contamination, the prevalence of salmonella in German chickens is lower than that of chickens slaughtered and sold in the U.S. (in 2013, Consumer Reports found 10.8 percent of U.S. chickens harbor salmonella bacteria, while the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment found 0.2 percent in its own country in 2011). Curiously, this might even be partially attributable to the disinfection process: immersion in chlorine baths has been associated with cross-contamination.
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No.
“The European Union has said that it is perfectly safe. The issue lies around some of the secondary issues of animal welfare”.
Critics of the practice say that it allows farms to have lower hygiene and welfare standards because the rely on bathing the meat in bacteria-killing chlorine solution before it is packaged.
The US allows several practices which aren’t permitted under EU law, such as treating cows with man-made growth hormones and washing animal carcases with lactic acid and other substances to kill pathogens.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
...says the man who voted for Corbyn & McDonnell to bankrupt the economy.
Oh the irony.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes.
The general opinion is the hygiene comment is bullshit as the eu are supposed under their code inspect regularly premises so any issue would then be identified at that point.
So it's about money and forcing consumers to pay more to protect farmers.
Screw the consumer and protect the European agricultural market
Funny that the people kicking up most in Germany were the greens and that the people most for chlorine chickens were the other businesses who were prepared to accept that for more trade with the US.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Would anyone import Chicken meat from the USA? Mexico or Canada might but there are plentiful supplies in Europe?
KFC McD Franchisees? It is supposed to be much cheaper than EU chicken. A lot would depend on exchange rates though.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I'm sure you are hallucinating Mart. With the strict superior EU animal welfare codes there aren't some of these barbaric institutions operating are there? Or are these money making and don't threaten the eu farming monopoly so
It's ok?
Kentucky Fried Cruelty :: Why KFC?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Ahhh yes because the Tories are doing a great job.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Strange that a vote for Labour was a vote for Brexit, yet it doesn't apply to you when voting for the tories.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You welcome the practice then?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's very clear that you have to balance priorities.
Even on the animal welfare side voting Tory was correct as the cataclysmic impact of a Corbyn administration would have wrecked the poorest in society and no doubt led to the ambandonment of many animals as poverty bites with growing unemployment, rising interest rates and repossessions.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Low interest rates for me personally is the only thing that matters. So actually they are doing a great job.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Yeah, well that's not Chicken, that's processed crap, chlorine wash or not, EU or USA its well dodge. Advice, avoid,, their prices are not even cheap.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It doesn't threaten the bloated eu protectionism - it just serves up shite from abused animals so that's all fine and dandy.
It made me laugh when that EU toady Nick Clegg was saying "we don't want that cheap US chicken" - I can envisage Britains most hypocritical politician saying it while stuffing his face with foie gras - all at the taxpayers expense no doubt.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Says a lot about you, to be honest.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
IT says a lot about you that earlier in the thread you preached about eating organic food and sneering st those who can't afford it and so not want them to have cheap alternatives. A Marie Attoinentte moment I think.
Do you want cheap alternatives even if that involves animal suffering? Cheap should not be the main criterium. I do agree that it helps to have money if you want to get healthy and ethically produced food. The aim though should be to improve things not dilute our already dubious food production methods even more.
If he is stuffing himself with European luxury foods then I am sure he is in good company. There are plenty of others gravytraining it.
Just ate a Burger King - only because these places are open later than most. But, you are right it is crap ( prefer BL to MacD though ). 7,99 € for a Farmhouse Burger Menu is not expensive though.
Low interest rates in the Eurozone too. The tories really are doing a great job. Really low actually. One consumer bank is charging negative interest on deposits.
Or won't you give credit to the ECB for that? You must if you claim that's what it's all about for you.
Actually you are showing yourself as a bit of a closet EU supporter. Praising indirectly the ECB's low interest policy and moaning that the EU isn't enforcing the EU laws that you actually agree with.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
prove that's what would of happened. You can't. You can only surmise, (more than likely based on inaccuracies printed in the daily mail).
I can prove that our economy is one of the worse performing of all the major European nations, not that you real deal in facts as you prove over and over again.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Can you point out where I was sneering? I was pointing out that I can now afford it but also saying that we need to change our attitudes towards eating meat.
It wasn't that long ago I was buying meat from Lidl. If you go for non free range you can get 2 chicken breasts in there for about £3 by the way.
You have proven yourself to be a selfish and full of self-interest and contempt for the poorer members of society time after time.
Now, after going on about animal welfare standards, you are condoning US battery methods. You couldn't make it up.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't eat any of that crap. I'm a signed up member of CWF
I think your confusing me with Martcov
Sign the Petition
No. Martcov is concerned about the lowering of trading standards in meat production. You are obviously not. All members of the EU voted against importing chlorine chicken - except the UK who wanted more time to asses the situation. Chicken production in the USA is more efficient and chicken costs 21% less there.
Still, after Brexit we don't have to bother what pesky greens in Europe ( and actually Grendel ) think about possible ethical and health considerations.
We can be "nimble" in negotiations according to the Telegraph. Means who gives a cluck about chicken welfare in America.
If the EU with 510 million consumers weren't able to influence a Democrat America, what influence do you think a 65 million Brexit Britain has with a buffoon calling the shots in the USA?
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Grendel, genuine question. How are you so concerned about animal welfare but are happy for them to be murdered just for your dinner?
Not so concerned as say a Vegan. Not happy to kill anyone or anything....but if we are going to do kill animals, then let's weigh up suffering against a necessity to eat and our pleasure in eating.
I have introduced vegan chili into my pub as a small step by giving an alternative to meat. I also sell vegetarian Pasties as an alternative to Fish n Chips on a major event that I take part on.
I don't think Britain accepting this "detail" without serious pushback, or at least a feasible trade off somewhere, is a benefit of leaving the EU. You may call it EU protectionism, and there will be that element, but a lot of people likeminded as yourself protested against this possibility in Europe. A lot of pressure groups want the EU to enforce it's own laws and bring in more regulations.
But, Brexit Britain was established by a mocking of regulation and of "experts". Expect a lowering of standards. The joke is that you voted for Brexit Britain. Sign whatever pledge you want, but you voted against EU regulations and controls. Enjoy.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Mart, I have been told a million times I didn't know what I voted for and what brexit looked like? Now your telling me I voted against EU controls (you are right) but which is it? I can't keep up.
Also on your bit I quoted again you miss the point. You are completely correct what you said but the point is an Independent Britain can make its own rules and if we don't want chlorine washed chicken then we won't. If we do then we do. That's the point. You make it sound as if it's a bad thing to have a choice. If we end up having Usa chicken and I don't want to buy it then guess what I won't. It's personal choice.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Call me cynical but if there is money to be made by illegally importing US Chickens or whatever to process & put into our food, somebody will already be doing it - & we are already eating it!
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You voted for control. You cannot have known or thought it through to the point that we may have to accept things we don't want to get a trade deal e.g. with the USA. In other words we have no 100% control of our borders. If Trump says that ( chlorine chicken ) or no deal, then what? No EU and no USA?
You've been had. You have no ultimate choice. It was bs. At least within the EU you had some sort of say as a major player. Now Brexit Britain is just a side show for Trump and the USA. Farage played up the Trump loyalty bit. Came back from the USA with a scrap of paper ( sorry, confusing him with Chamberlain)... not even a scrap of paper, but enthusing about Trump having a bust of Churchill and how he was going to do a great trade deal with Britain because when he gives his word he means it.. how loyal Donald is.. etc etc... You can ask Sessions and Spicer about loyalty from Trump.
No, KoK, sorry to have to tell you this again, but you and millions of others have been seriously misled. Liam Fox's US begging Trip and the grovelling to the Saudi royal family for arms deals show this.
Grendel is on about animals being killed. What about the Yemenis being killed by the Saudi war machine that we actively support with advanced weaponisation?
About time that we admitted that we need a powerful "united" Europe to deal with threats and to strengthen our negotiating hand. I couldn't give a toss about the curvature of bananas or Brussels regulations- there is far more at stake and "we" are just beginning to see exactly what.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I disagree with everything you put and you disagree with me. We are never going to agree. Time will give us more answers but for now I'm very happy with how I voted as I'm sure you are.
P.s don't get me wrong some of the clowns running brexit piss me off as we have an almost remainer cabinet. So what we will get is a watered down version of brexit (already transitional deals talked about etc) so the remainers won't be happy and the brexiteers won't be happy. That's my opinion.