Actual Nazis in America (13 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

I've been away for a few days but expected to come back to see some sort of discussion about this. Something is going seriously wrong with that country now.

 

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[clint van damme]

I've been away for a few days but expected to come back to see some sort of discussion about this. Something is going seriously wrong with that country now.

something wrong when the president refuses to condemn them and at one point referred to them as "us".
May refusing to condemn them/him is equally troubling.

 

[Grendel]

something wrong when the president refuses to condemn them and at one point referred to them as "us".
May refusing to condemn them/him is equally troubling.

Just reminded me of Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA or some South America dictator.

All sides are to blame.

They are as well. The other side are equally as facist.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Just reminded me of Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA or some South America dictator.

All sides are to blame.

They are as well. The other side are equally as facist.

You can decry the left all you want but these are actual fascists. Shouting heil Hitler, calling themselves national socialists and openly agitating for a race war in order for a racially pure nation. Corbyn comes nowhere into this and you bringing him in says a hell of a lot.

 

[clint van damme]

Just reminded me of Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA or some South America dictator.

All sides are to blame.

They are as well. The other side are equally as facist.

don't agree with that at all.
You have nazi groups marching armed in the streets - the people opposing them are opposing their extreme right wing agenda and come from all sections of the community.
This alt left moniker is bollocks, it's just designed to perpetrate this different sides of the same coin bullshit.
Allied troops fought people with the same ideals in the 2nd world war - were they alt left?
I'm surprised a t you stocking up for them, I don't agree with your politics but didn't think you'd have any truck with these people.
Mosque bombed in Montana and girl killed by driving a car at her - it's terrorism plain and simple.

 

[Grendel]

You can decry the left all you want but these are actual fascists. Shouting heil Hitler, calling themselves national socialists and openly agitating for a race war in order for a racially pure nation. Corbyn comes nowhere into this and you bringing him in says a hell of a lot.

No it doesn't. when questioned about the brutal regime in venuzeuala he said all sides were to blame. When asked about the IRA he said violence on all sides were to blame.

Trump used the same excuse and get out clause.

They are two peas in the same rotten pod.

As for facist movements check out the other side and its statements on Jewish people will you?

 

[Liquid Gold]

No it doesn't. when questioned about the brutal regime in venuzeuala he said all sides were to blame. When asked about the IRA he said violence on all sides were to blame.

Trump used the same excuse and get out clause.

They are two peas in the same rotten pod.

As for facist movements check out the other side and its statements on Jewish people will you?

Grendel, I know we disagree on most all things politics but you're deflecting away from actual Nazism now. Get some perspective.

 

[Nick]

The crazy red necks from documentaries? Or different?

 

[clint van damme]

No it doesn't. when questioned about the brutal regime in venuzeuala he said all sides were to blame. When asked about the IRA he said violence on all sides were to blame.

Trump used the same excuse and get out clause.

They are two peas in the same rotten pod.

As for facist movements check out the other side and its statements on Jewish people will you?

there are nazis parading down the street in the US killing people, let that sink in, going on about Corbyn really is lame. You mention Jewish people, well this is how the holocaust started.
The nazis didn't just wake up one day a build a gas chamber and start throwing people in it.
They started with this same rhetoric, this same ideology and these same shows of strength.

 

[Liquid Gold]

The crazy red necks from documentaries? Or different?

Watch VICE News Tonight's full episode "Charlottesville: Race and Terror"

I know you love a documentary

 

[Grendel]

don't agree with that at all.
You have nazi groups marching armed in the streets - the people opposing them are opposing their extreme right wing agenda and come from all sections of the community.
This alt left moniker is bollocks, it's just designed to perpetrate this different sides of the same coin bullshit.
Allied troops fought people with the same ideals in the 2nd world war - were they alt left?
I'm surprised a t you stocking up for them, I don't agree with your politics but didn't think you'd have any truck with these people.
Mosque bombed in Montana and girl killed by driving a car at her - it's terrorism plain and simple.

You totally misunderstand my point. My point is that the USA allows freedom of speech in its constitution, you may not like what is being said but they are allowed to say it.

The presidents statement condemned both sides. People who don't like that but are satisfied with Mr Corbyn and his similar responses on certain issues does not sit comfortably

No one seriously supports the nazi movement but I do find it ironic that the Black Movement is exonerated when it has views on the Jewish community that Adolf Hitler would find agreement with.

 

[clint van damme]

it's not just about what's being said, they killed and maimed people by driving a car at them.

 

[Sick Boy]

Some shocking comments on this thread.

 

[Grendel]

it's not just about what's being said, they killed and maimed people by driving a car at them.

Indeed and when the victim was white how has the outrage in the movement been compared to if it was a black person?

I'm actually parodying this by the way as I'm far more interested and disturbed by events on our own shores this month that have passed by with little comment.

 

[clint van damme]

Indeed and when the victim was white how has the outrage in the movement been compared to if it was a black person?

I'm actually parodying this by the way as I'm far more interested and disturbed by events on our own shores this month that have passed by with little comment.

what events? The last time there were terrorist attacks in the UK there was condemnation and sympathy for the victims expressed by everyone on this board.

You're comparisons with the black movement are ridiculous.
Have they ever marched, armed, to the statue of a Jewish oppressor and killed protesters in the protest?
And you obviously haven't being reading up on this story if you think there's been no outrage about a protester getting killed because she is white.

 

[Grendel]

what events? The last time there were terrorist attacks in the UK there was condemnation and sympathy for the victims expressed by everyone on this board.

You're comparisons with the black movement are ridiculous.
Have they ever marched, armed, to the statue of a Jewish oppressor and killed protesters in the protest?
And you obviously haven't being reading up on this story if you think there's been no outrage about a protester getting killed because she is white.

Actually for the record I am very well read on this subject. I am currently on a lengthy vacation and I have the last couple of days returned home and have read numerous articles on the issue.

Unfortunately I am unable to link an excellent article in the Times by Melanie Phillips on the subject as she, in my view, discussed the issue in an intelligent and balanced way.

If you get an opportunity read it and it may give you a more relevant perspective.

With regard to the OP if he is truly shocked that nazi groups exist in America he needs to get out more. They've existed for decades and not, as Ms Phillips points out, suddenly appeared out of thin air due entirely to the present administration.

 

[Otis]

Just reminded me of Jeremy Corbyn and the IRA or some South America dictator.

All sides are to blame.

They are as well. The other side are equally as facist.

This is not correct I don't think.

One BBC reporter was there for the days before leading up to, and at the rallies themselves has said that on the whole the people on the one side protesting against the neo Nazis and white supremacists were local people against hate crime.

He said there was violence on both sides but he only heard the inflammatory language from the one side, with Nazi chants and anti semitic language. There were a lot of weapons and shields and provocative, hate filled banners.

He said that on the whole the one side were local people, while on the other people were being shipped and flown in from all over the country.

You also make mention of anti Jewish sentiments from some on the left here, but there is surely a big difference between someone believing something in their own minds and not publicly airing those views and those who publicly air and chant en masse such views and done so like a regimented military army.

I know it is very simplified, but as someone said on Twitter yesterday, Nazis - bad, anti Nazi - Good.

We surely all know that white supremacists and neo Nazis are extremists. For the most part the people on the other side were local people protesting against what they saw as hate crime.

If what Trump said is correct, why has it received pretty much universal condemnation and even from people on his own side?

 

[skybluetony176]

If what Trump said is correct, why has it received pretty much universal condemnation and even from people on his own side?

Even George HW and George W managed to say something sensible in a joint statement. Then you have grendull...

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder what Trump would have said if a "lefties" protester who just happened to also be a muslim got in a car and ploughed through the neo nazis? Would it still have been both sides to blame or would he have labeled it a terrorist attack?

 

[Otis]

I wonder what Trump would have said if a "lefties" protester who just happened to also be a muslim got in a car and ploughed through the neo nazis? Would it still have been both sides to blame or would he have labeled it a terrorist attack?

Errm.... give me a little while to think on that one as it's really tough.

That incident last week in Charlottesville was very clearly a terrorist attack.

 

[clint van damme]

Actually for the record I am very well read on this subject. I am currently on a lengthy vacation and I have the last couple of days returned home and have read numerous articles on the issue.

Unfortunately I am unable to link an excellent article in the Times by Melanie Phillips on the subject as she, in my view, discussed the issue in an intelligent and balanced way.

If you get an opportunity read it and it may give you a more relevant perspective.

With regard to the OP if he is truly shocked that nazi groups exist in America he needs to get out more. They've existed for decades and not, as Ms Phillips points out, suddenly appeared out of thin air due entirely to the present administration.

Of course they've existed for decades, but they've become emboldened by the rhetoric of the current administration, any one who thinks differently is deluded. I'm at work but could also link you dozens of quotes from Trump which would probably get censored on here.

 

[Grendel]

This is not correct I don't think.

One BBC reporter was there for the days before leading up to, and at the rallies themselves has said that on the whole the people on the one side protesting against the neo Nazis and white supremacists were local people against hate crime.

He said there was violence on both sides but he only heard the inflammatory language from the one side, with Nazi chants and anti semitic language. There were a lot of weapons and shields and provocative, hate filled banners.

He said that on the whole the one side were local people, while on the other people were being shipped and flown in from all over the country.

You also make mention of anti Jewish sentiments from some on the left here, but there is surely a big difference between someone believing something in their own minds and not publicly airing those views and those who publicly air and chant en masse such views and done so like a regimented military army.

I know it is very simplified, but as someone said on Twitter yesterday, Nazis - bad, anti Nazi - Good.

We surely all know that white supremacists and neo Nazis are extremists. For the most part the people on the other side were local people protesting against what they saw as hate crime.

If what Trump said is correct, why has it received pretty much universal condemnation and even from people on his own side?

The anti semetic comment was a reference to the policy of the group on Israel which says the Jewish community support "genocide and apartheid" an unusual choice of phrase wouldn't you say?

 

[Otis]

The anti semetic comment was a reference to the policy of the group on Israel which says the Jewish community support "genocide and apartheid" an unusual choice of phrase wouldn't you say?

Yep.

Which group you talking about?

For the most part they were just local residents there protesting apparently. You are always going to get some fringe group involved. They just tag along.

I wonder just how many of the alt-right march were just there to protest about the loss of a statue and were not holding white supremacist views or were neo Nazis.

 

[Grendel]

Of course they've existed for decades, but they've become emboldened by the rhetoric of the current administration, any one who thinks differently is deluded. I'm at work but could also link you dozens of quotes from Trump which would probably get censored on here.

No one denies Trump could have and should have said things differently. I doubt, though, it would have made very much difference. Interestingly I saw a Fox report when he did specifically denounce far right white groups and suggested he was reading an autocue and it was scripted. When he didn't it was from the heart.

The real point here is that virtually all of society are not neo nazis and will find neo nazi views repugnant and frankly ridiculous.

However there is a definite new and aggressive left wing attitude growing. The election of trump was legitimate but now we definately see vilification of those who voted republican as being branded as supporting the KKK. There are numerous examples on social media of people being vilified merely for being Republican.

The recent murder attempt on a republican by a hard left extremist went virtually un-noticed - would this be the case the other way round? I think not.

Was the KKK support for Hilary Clinton during her campaign acknowledged? I think not.

This country sees the same disturbing trends. Even on this thread you make a mildly provocotive remark and you see the reaction

We even have a comment that May hasn't commented on it this implying (absurdly) she is a White Supremecist sympathiser and by proxy do must anyone who supported her party.

The Brexit thread exposes this - namely if you support Brexit you must be "right wing" you must oppose immigration - you must be racist. You are bad.

On social media during the election a woman put up a selfie with a Tory candidate. She ended up closing her account due to abuse accusing her of being amongst other things a nazi bitch.

Now we see a Rotherham MP quitting after making a perhaps misplaced comment but not a particularly innacurate one.

The Newcastle grooming scandal was clearly a gross act of racism by the convicted but say it and it's you who are the racist.

These are troubling times for democracy and not because of some Nazi nut jobs and an obstinate stupid president.

 

[clint van damme]

There was a mosque bombed in Montana which went virtually unreported.
And as for KKK support for Clinton - I have to admit it's a new one on me.

May should have condemned Trump, I would have expected any PM from whatever party to do so, she didn't, says it all about her as far as I'm concerned.

I think a lot of the concern about the comments made by the Lady MP from Rotherham was due to the rag she chose to air her views in more than anything.

 

[Sub]

Errm.... give me a little while to think on that one as it's really tough.

That incident last week in Charlottesville was very clearly a terrorist attack.

That incident was an attack by an absolute f***ng moron who has no respect for human life. The world has gone mad completly mad. Its our children i feel sorry for as it seems that will be war after war after war a very sad state of affairs.

 

[chiefdave]

The real point here is that virtually all of society are not neo nazis and will find neo nazi views repugnant and frankly ridiculous.

Agreed, and following on from that people need to stop trying to apply labels like anti-fascist, alt-left etc. There's Nazis and then there's everyone else.

The election of trump was legitimate but now we definately see vilification of those who voted republican as being branded as supporting the KKK. There are numerous examples on social media of people being vilified merely for being Republican.

Those who won't condemn Nazism should be vilified. There are many Republicans who are condemning what has been happening, including two republican former presidents, something that must be unprecedented.

Was the KKK support for Hilary Clinton during her campaign acknowledged? I think not.

Are you referring to Will Quigg and his claims he knew of a Clinton right wing secret agenda that was only to be revealed once she won the election?
KKK Endorses Hillary Clinton? Not Likely.
Not sure that's really on the same level as the KKK paper, The Crusader, endorsing Trump. Even less so know with Duke stating this is why people voted for Trump and thanking him for condemning left wing terrorists.

We even have a comment that May hasn't commented on it this implying (absurdly) she is a White Supremecist sympathiser and by proxy do must anyone who supported her party.

Commenting that May was very slow in critising Trump and needed two attempts at it isn't implying she is a white supremacist, its implying she's a weak leader who is more concerned about not upsetting Trump than condemning Nazis.

 

[wingy]

The anti semetic comment was a reference to the policy of the group on Israel which says the Jewish community support "genocide and apartheid" an unusual choice of phrase wouldn't you say?

I think they do to a degree.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Firstly, there is no time in this world for Nazi's. It's disgusting and amazing actually that people think like this in the 21st century. This sort of thing does go on, but thankfully it is no where near as rife as one might think... Which brings me to my next point.

What Trump said isn't exactly wrong, but the bloke is on thin ice with most of the planet, so anything he says gets ridiculed. Of course, neo-nazi's should be condemned, but in many situations recently, Black Lives Matter and Antifa have been causing violent protests across America and beyond and this is completely ignored or swept under the carpet by the media within a day or two. Torching cars, smashing things up, intimidating civilians whilst wearing balaclavas. Smashing up Starbucks... etc etc.

Now, whether you agree with neo-nazi's or not (I hope that would be no one), the violence only happened here when BLM and Antifa shipped in. They go round spouting stuff about killing police officers too, and the former is also pretty racist in iteself. Why are these organisations so rarely condemned? A guy was allegedly killed by a raging Trump supporter a few months ago and there was a complete media circus about it. As soon as it was discovered he was in fact a hardcore Bernie Sanders supporter, it was swept under the carpet within about 12 hours. The leader of BLM is also on the FBI's most wanted list. If that was a neo-nazi wouldn't we be hearing the end of it? Instead, BLM are still given quite a lot of support...

As always, I try to offer an alternative view point. Sadly, it seems like if you have remotely conservative views, even classed as right-wing, you are automatically branded a racist and a bigot. Of course, there were actual racists at this demonstration, but both the extreme and violent left and right need to be condemned equally. Unfortunately, I cannot see that this is happening...

 

[skybluetony176]

When he didn't it was from the heart.

So did he have a change of heart? Twice.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

This is not correct I don't think.

One BBC reporter was there for the days before leading up to, and at the rallies themselves has said that on the whole the people on the one side protesting against the neo Nazis and white supremacists were local people against hate crime.

He said there was violence on both sides but he only heard the inflammatory language from the one side, with Nazi chants and anti semitic language. There were a lot of weapons and shields and provocative, hate filled banners.

He said that on the whole the one side were local people, while on the other people were being shipped and flown in from all over the country.

You also make mention of anti Jewish sentiments from some on the left here, but there is surely a big difference between someone believing something in their own minds and not publicly airing those views and those who publicly air and chant en masse such views and done so like a regimented military army.

I know it is very simplified, but as someone said on Twitter yesterday, Nazis - bad, anti Nazi - Good.

We surely all know that white supremacists and neo Nazis are extremists. For the most part the people on the other side were local people protesting against what they saw as hate crime.

If what Trump said is correct, why has it received pretty much universal condemnation and even from people on his own side?

Your last point has happened because Trump is wanted out by about 80% of the planet. If people feel they have a chance to shoot him down, they do. Of course, firstly he should be condemning the nazi's, but he is also right to have a pop at the other side. They have been causing chaos for ages, and the picture painted that they are some form of local heroes is an absolute joke.

The irony between this Nazism is that the fascist behaviour used by those scumbags in world war two, and the time leading up to it, is that this behaviour is now being used by the left. Not in this example so much, because racists can fuck off, but generally there is now a gag on freedom of speech. Unless it is politically correct, you cannot say it. Look at the grooming gang issues for another example.

I would also be cautious to take the BBC's standpoint on this as so black and white (sorry for the pun). When an Islamist plows into a crowd we hear that the response is to be calm and not to descend into hate crimes against Muslims. However, when this incident happens (and as far as I'm concerned you can castrate the nazi), the response is that we should tackle right wing hate crime immediately, and that white people are all racist. One person has been killed, but this has been the main news story (several times a day now) for the past week. A car plowed into a crowd in Paris last week and killed a little girl, the driver was Muslim, and this has not even been covered on the main news outlets after about 24hours following the incident.

I've got no time for Nazi's, and it should be tackled. It's the hypocrisy that I find absolutely staggering...

 

[clint van damme]

Your last point has happened because Trump is wanted out by about 80% of the planet. If people feel they have a chance to shoot him down, they do. Of course, firstly he should be condemning the nazi's, but he is also right to have a pop at the other side. They have been causing chaos for ages, and the picture painted that they are some form of local heroes is an absolute joke.

The irony between this Nazism is that the fascist behaviour used by those scumbags in world war two, and the time leading up to it, is that this behaviour is now being used by the left. Not in this example so much, because racists can fuck off, but generally there is now a gag on freedom of speech. Unless it is politically correct, you cannot say it. Look at the grooming gang issues for another example.

I would also be cautious to take the BBC's standpoint on this as so black and white (sorry for the pun). When an Islamist plows into a crowd we hear that the response is to be calm and not to descend into hate crimes against Muslims. However, when this incident happens (and as far as I'm concerned you can castrate the nazi), the response is that we should tackle right wing hate crime immediately, and that white people are all racist. One person has been killed, but this has been the main news story (several times a day now) for the past week. A car plowed into a crowd in Paris last week and killed a little girl, the driver was Muslim, and this has not even been covered on the main news outlets after about 24hours following the incident.

I've got no time for Nazi's, and it should be tackled. It's the hypocrisy that I find absolutely staggering...

Who is this other side who have being causing chaos for ages? Can you give me an example?

As for all white people being painted as racists, I'm a white person I don't think anyone is painting me as a racist. They are painting racists as racists.

To say the grooming gang issue hasn't been covered simply isn't true.

You have a point regarding the Paris car incident but the Montana mosque bombing has had little coverage either, perhaps events in Charlottesville have just taken over the air time.

To say their is a gag on freedom of speech is nonsense, there has never been more chance to speak your mind through the internet and social media. But it's the age old argument, what do you tolerate? Should freedom of speech give you the right to say what you want no matter who it stirs up or who it offends - I don't have an answer to be honest.

 

[Kingokings204]

Your last point has happened because Trump is wanted out by about 80% of the planet. If people feel they have a chance to shoot him down, they do. Of course, firstly he should be condemning the nazi's, but he is also right to have a pop at the other side. They have been causing chaos for ages, and the picture painted that they are some form of local heroes is an absolute joke.

The irony between this Nazism is that the fascist behaviour used by those scumbags in world war two, and the time leading up to it, is that this behaviour is now being used by the left. Not in this example so much, because racists can fuck off, but generally there is now a gag on freedom of speech. Unless it is politically correct, you cannot say it. Look at the grooming gang issues for another example.

I would also be cautious to take the BBC's standpoint on this as so black and white (sorry for the pun). When an Islamist plows into a crowd we hear that the response is to be calm and not to descend into hate crimes against Muslims. However, when this incident happens (and as far as I'm concerned you can castrate the nazi), the response is that we should tackle right wing hate crime immediately, and that white people are all racist. One person has been killed, but this has been the main news story (several times a day now) for the past week. A car plowed into a crowd in Paris last week and killed a little girl, the driver was Muslim, and this has not even been covered on the main news outlets after about 24hours following the incident.

I've got no time for Nazi's, and it should be tackled. It's the hypocrisy that I find absolutely staggering...

It is staggering. The resignation of the labour mp in Rotherham says all you need to know about labour and it's pc values. Anyone's who dares to say what the truth is is then got rid of. A disgusting act and shameful but again hardly reported. Please does anyone agree with her sacking for speaking the truth?

As for the trump debate as not to avoid it. Again I can't see the problem unless I'm missing something. He came out and I listened over and over again his interview he quite clearly blamed both sides very abruptly and said there is no place for it ever and anywhere. Isn't he right? If he isn't then I'm very worried about our children.

I strongly condemn any nazi views and kkk views as much as far left violence. That's what this it is, two extremes meeting head on and it results in deaths. Disgusting

 

[Liquid Gold]

In August 1939 some of you lot would be warning against the imminent threat of Bolshevism.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Who is this other side who have being causing chaos for ages? Can you give me an example?

As for all white people being painted as racists, I'm a white person I don't think anyone is painting me as a racist. They are painting racists as racists.

To say the grooming gang issue hasn't been covered simply isn't true.

You have a point regarding the Paris car incident but the Montana mosque bombing has had little coverage either, perhaps events in Charlottesville have just taken over the air time.

To say their is a gag on freedom of speech is nonsense, there has never been more chance to speak your mind through the internet and social media. But it's the age old argument, what do you tolerate? Should freedom of speech give you the right to say what you want no matter who it stirs up or who it offends - I don't have an answer to be honest.

Google Antifa violence and BLM violence. There is an abundance of cases to hit on.

You're right, there is a line say, between free speech, and hate speech. In my opinion though, the line is in the wrong place. For example, I don't agree with the nazi's having a stage as such, but I equally think having a blanket ban on saying a lot of the grooming gangs are Pakistani muslims is not constructive at all. The Police even admitted that they effectively swept it under the carpet because they didn't want to be seen as racist. Equally that Labour MP got in hot water, simply by saying the truth.

Migrant crime, talk about it in Sweden, lose your job. How is that ok? The internet is a platform of course, but freedom of speech publicly is effectively dead. It is appalling and sad.

I haven't heard so much about the Montana incident, but I have also heard that the suspect was another Muslim, so who knows.Not stirring shit, but that could be the reason perhaps.