Actual Nazis in America (16 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

we could argue for hours about what remain looks like

Which is exactly what you do! You keep saying what people who voted remain voted for... and deciding that is what should happen, as opposed to actually debating what the best form of leaving is.

You can't see subtlety, and you decide you speak for everybody. It's farcical!

And then you patronise me and decide you're right and everyone else is wrong. Democracy? not in your eyes, it's a dressed up, mildly xenophobic dictatorship, and God help us if more than a minority think like that.

 

---

[Deleted member 5849]

Whenever Cameron or any predecessor went to Europe to negotiate fresh terms for the uk that's what they always got - precisely nothing.

...which doesn't exactly bode well for the milk and honey we're promised on leaving, does it?

I agree btw, the efforts to renegotiate were pitiful... on both sides, but the brash nonsense spouted by the likes of kingofkings has no basis in what's gone before, does it?

And then the question would surely remain that if the leave vote shook the EU up to offer better terms for remaining within... surely that'd need a referendum as to whether to reverse the previous one? I'd be fairly sure a sizeable number would have voted leave as much because of the inflexibility and intransigence of such talks.

(note, I'm not saying I expect any flexibility now - the previous track record says otherwise and an almighty mess on going! But it does, surely, say why nothing, and I mean *nothing* should be set in stone atm).

 

[martcov]

That's the problem you don't seem to get we had a choice remain or leave, we could argue for hours about what remain looks like and what leave looks like but the question was a simple remain or leave and the uk voted to leave and that is what is now happening.

A lot more encouraged by yesterday's talks and my belief is in 20 years time when this has all passed we will look back on it just like I do praising the lord we didn't join the euro. Same people and businesses said our country would fall to bits if we didn't join it. London would collapse. People would be poorer. Mercifully we didn't join.

I have the same prediction for brexit.

The euro is gaining in strength against the dollar and the pound- I'n glad I've got more Euros than Pounds...

This is no deal yet with Japan.

The EU has a deal with Japan which we would use if we were in the EU.

Just because your prediction was right on one subject doesn't mean it will be on a completely different subject.

 

[Grendel]

The euro is gaining in strength against the dollar and the pound- I'n glad I've got more Euros than Pounds...

This is no deal yet with Japan.

The EU has a deal with Japan which we would use if we were in the EU.

Just because your prediction was right on one subject doesn't mean it will be on a completely different subject.

It's took how long to get a deal agreed with Japan?

As for the euro vs pound it's been at this level before it's not earth shattering.

 

[chiefdave]

hate to break it to you, we are leaving the EU so the deal was for Britain and Japan to have a free trade deal. Good news isn't it?

It worries me that this is now flagged as good news. Prior to the vote we were being told the EU was holding us back and we'd be able to negotiate much better deals on our own.

Now we're saying getting a carbon copy of an existing EU deal, the same one we would have had if we'd remained, is good news.

That of course ignores the fact we don't yet have a deal at all. We have the vague promise of a deal if certain conditions are met.

Brexit was about controlling our own laws and borders and opening ourselves up to the world.

Its already been admitted that we can't control our own laws and the EU will still have some control and as for borders which ones did we not control and what is going to change?

Whenever Cameron or any predecessor went to Europe to negotiate fresh terms for the uk that's what they always got - precisely nothing.

With such a good track record in negotiations you can see why we decided to throw everything out and give ourselves a two year period to negotiate replacement deals with every trading partner we have.

It's took how long to get a deal agreed with Japan?

Who are you referring to? The UK hasn't agreed a deal with Japan. The EU started negotiations in 2013, there have currently been 18 rounds of negotiations and they hope to complete the deal this year.

 

[Kingokings204]

Which is exactly what you do! You keep saying what people who voted remain voted for... and deciding that is what should happen, as opposed to actually debating what the best form of leaving is.

You can't see subtlety, and you decide you speak for everybody. It's farcical!

And then you patronise me and decide you're right and everyone else is wrong. Democracy? not in your eyes, it's a dressed up, mildly xenophobic dictatorship, and God help us if more than a minority think like that.

Dear oh dear. The result didn't go your way and toys firmly out the pram.

We are leaving. It's already happening. Where was the vote on joining the EU and what that would look like? Who listened to the french and Dutch when they voted against the EU constitution in 2005? Who listened to the Irish when they twice voted no back in 2008? Democracy you talk about. Sounds like you have the same democracy standards as the EU. Only democracy when the vote goes your way.

 

[Kingokings204]

The euro is gaining in strength against the dollar and the pound- I'n glad I've got more Euros than Pounds...

This is no deal yet with Japan.

The EU has a deal with Japan which we would use if we were in the EU.

Just because your prediction was right on one subject doesn't mean it will be on a completely different subject.

Do you understand currency markets and government bond yields?

We all know the pound has dropped it was overvalued in the first place for a start. Secondly it's been failing for 3-4 years steadily (way before the referendum) and thirdly just for a bit our ftse 1000 is at a massive peak in recent memory and exporters are selling a lot more products all of a sudden.

These things go in cycles and you have to react to the situation at the time.

A quick look Mart at the 10year bond yields will show you Germany, uk France and Netherlands all have a 1 or below percentage bond yield where as Greece Portugal and Italy all have over a 2% bond yield with Greece 5.54%. Tells you everything you need to know about this EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

Brexit was about controlling our own laws and borders and opening ourselves up to the world. A free trade deal with Japan is great news isn't it?

I thought it was about parts of the country feeling left behind due to neo-liberalism? How is more neo liberalism going to help these people?

 

[Kingokings204]

:angelic:

I thought it was about parts of the country feeling left behind due to neo-liberalism? How is more neo liberalism going to help these people?

Good question and it remains to be seen. I certainly don't think brexit will solve everything. It's impossible.

The idea to brexit is if we can control the quantity and quality of people coming here for skills we need and want then actually we get better communities and more money floating around. As for opening ourselves to the world from the shackles of the EU 85% of trade is outside of the EU so if we can get the right deals and the early signs looks good then we can get serious investment and jobs. Ship more around the world. Make more. Just like the Germans who apart from Martcov have always admired. Fantastic country who make and produce a lot of goods with a good work ethic and quality.

 

[clint van damme]

Do you understand currency markets and government bond yields?

We all know the pound has dropped it was overvalued in the first place for a start. Secondly it's been failing for 3-4 years steadily (way before the referendum) and thirdly just for a bit our ftse 1000 is at a massive peak in recent memory and exporters are selling a lot more products all of a sudden.

These things go in cycles and you have to react to the situation at the time.

A quick look Mart at the 10year bond yields will show you Germany, uk France and Netherlands all have a 1 or below percentage bond yield where as Greece Portugal and Italy all have over a 2% bond yield with Greece 5.54%. Tells you everything you need to know about this EU.

can you link any evidence that there has been an upsurge in exports? The last full quarter figures weren't great and overall in the year since the leave vote weren't great either.
Some improvements reported in August but we won't really know until the next full quarter figures are released.

 

[chiefdave]

The idea to brexit is if we can control the quantity and quality of people coming here for skills we need and want then actually we get better communities and more money floating around.

What changes are you expecting to be made, that couldn't be made as part of the EU, to control the quantity and quality of people entering the UK?

if we can get the right deals and the early signs looks good

What early signs give you the impression things are looking good?

 

[Sick Boy]

:angelic:

Good question and it remains to be seen. I certainly don't think brexit will solve everything. It's impossible.

The idea to brexit is if we can control the quantity and quality of people coming here for skills we need and want then actually we get better communities and more money floating around. As for opening ourselves to the world from the shackles of the EU 85% of trade is outside of the EU so if we can get the right deals and the early signs looks good then we can get serious investment and jobs. Ship more around the world. Make more. Just like the Germans who apart from Martcov have always admired. Fantastic country who make and produce a lot of goods with a good work ethic and quality.

What should we make? If we are going to be paying people more, how will we compete with say, China or India?

 

[skybluetony176]

:angelic:

Good question and it remains to be seen. I certainly don't think brexit will solve everything. It's impossible.

The idea to brexit is if we can control the quantity and quality of people coming here for skills we need and want then actually we get better communities and more money floating around. As for opening ourselves to the world from the shackles of the EU 85% of trade is outside of the EU so if we can get the right deals and the early signs looks good then we can get serious investment and jobs. Ship more around the world. Make more. Just like the Germans who apart from Martcov have always admired. Fantastic country who make and produce a lot of goods with a good work ethic and quality.

You're conveniently ignoring or maybe blissfully unaware of what is happening in the euro zone. Aside from the fact it's economy has been performing better than predicted the big change due to happen in 2018 is an end to the quantitative easing program that's been going on for years now of the euro because of the financial crisis. This means that excluding the other factors that have seen the euro grow in value the stopping of quantitative easing is going to give it another shot in the arm. People keep saying that the pound was artificially high against the euro in a very hopeful manner but maybe the truth is that the continued quantitative easing program in the euro zone has actually kept the euro artificially low? At least to some degree. I guess we'll find out next year.

 

[Liquid Gold]

From what I understand the assurances given by May to Japan revolve around retaining Japanese investment into the UK by providing them access to the European market. To do this we'll have to pay into the EU budget, retain access to the single market and agree to freedom of movement. It seems to me that our glorious leader is telling foreign governments and her own electorate different things.

 

[martcov]

Whenever Cameron or any predecessor went to Europe to negotiate fresh terms for the uk that's what they always got - precisely nothing.

When Chamberlain went to Germany he got a scrap of paper which he bigged up to take the pressure off himself..... some accounts even claim it was put together quickly in the hotel lift on the way to the foyer. Sounded great, but the rest is history. May got a piece of paper promising a deal with Japan in the future...... who knows what she promised in return... Wait and see what happens...

 

[martcov]

It's took how long to get a deal agreed with Japan?

As for the euro vs pound it's been at this level before it's not earth shattering.

No, but the Euro is obviously not the crap currency you'd like it to be.

 

[martcov]

Do you understand currency markets and government bond yields?

We all know the pound has dropped it was overvalued in the first place for a start. Secondly it's been failing for 3-4 years steadily (way before the referendum) and thirdly just for a bit our ftse 1000 is at a massive peak in recent memory and exporters are selling a lot more products all of a sudden.

These things go in cycles and you have to react to the situation at the time.

A quick look Mart at the 10year bond yields will show you Germany, uk France and Netherlands all have a 1 or below percentage bond yield where as Greece Portugal and Italy all have over a 2% bond yield with Greece 5.54%. Tells you everything you need to know about this EU.

Falling steadily? I transferred money before Brexit at 1,40. Then more at 1,14. Now it's 1,07. that is in just over 1 year and, significantly, since the Brexit cock up.

Do they? Do you know that we will ever get out of this low point? If so when?

The bond prices reflect the amount of risk involved. This tells me a lot about Greece, but not everything I need to know about the EU. Apart from maybe that there benefits to the ECB low interest policy. Many municipalities here have reduced their debts and expenditure on debts which means money can be freed up for other things. Despite the low interest rates, the Euro is still gaining on the pound. Why do think this is happening- as someone who understands currency markets?

 

[chiefdave]

who knows what she promised in return

One thing we do know is she's volunteer our armed forces to assist Japan if they have any issues with North Korea.

 

[martcov]

:angelic:

Good question and it remains to be seen. I certainly don't think brexit will solve everything. It's impossible.

The idea to brexit is if we can control the quantity and quality of people coming here for skills we need and want then actually we get better communities and more money floating around. As for opening ourselves to the world from the shackles of the EU 85% of trade is outside of the EU so if we can get the right deals and the early signs looks good then we can get serious investment and jobs. Ship more around the world. Make more. Just like the Germans who apart from Martcov have always admired. Fantastic country who make and produce a lot of goods with a good work ethic and quality.

Germany has a far higher portion of GDP from manufacturing and exporting goods than the U.K. . Our strong point is financial services - which we are now going to partly sacrifice so that e.g. Postal workers in Chatham feel that people are at last basing policies on their views.

 

[martcov]

One thing we do know is she's volunteer our armed forces to assist Japan if they have any issues with North Korea.

Well there you go...... shfwhf if we have to trade our armed forces for a trade deal we would have access to through the EU.

 

[Captain Dart]

When Chamberlain went to Germany he got a scrap of paper which he bigged up to take the pressure off himself..... some accounts even claim it was put together quickly in the hotel lift on the way to the foyer. Sounded great, but the rest is history. May got a piece of paper promising a deal with Japan in the future...... who knows what she promised in return... Wait and see what happens...

As analogies go that one is shit.

 

[martcov]

As analogies go that one is shit.

Not really. The consequences are different, but the premise isn't. There was no way May could come back with nothing. A piece of paper about an agreement to have an agreement- according to Dave offering our armed forces as a carrot - is what is being bigged up to keep the heat off. There are similarities- but obviously not in scale.

 

[martcov]

Do you understand currency markets and government bond yields?

We all know the pound has dropped it was overvalued in the first place for a start. Secondly it's been failing for 3-4 years steadily (way before the referendum) and thirdly just for a bit our ftse 1000 is at a massive peak in recent memory and exporters are selling a lot more products all of a sudden.

These things go in cycles and you have to react to the situation at the time.

A quick look Mart at the 10year bond yields will show you Germany, uk France and Netherlands all have a 1 or below percentage bond yield where as Greece Portugal and Italy all have over a 2% bond yield with Greece 5.54%. Tells you everything you need to know about this EU.

Quote from today's paper: “The longer the talks seem to go nowhere the worse it gets for sterling,” said Neil Wilson, a senior market analyst at ETX capital

 

[Grendel]

Not really. The consequences are different, but the premise isn't. There was no way May could come back with nothing. A piece of paper about an agreement to have an agreement- according to Dave offering our armed forces as a carrot - is what is being bigged up to keep the heat off. There are similarities- but obviously not in scale.

Yeah it's shocking and laughable.

Let's do another war analogy if we are entering the realms of the playground.

The EU is a modern equivalent of the third Reich. History tells you one thing. When Germany wants something the rest of Europe collaborate and crumble - with one exception.

Oh look it's history repeating itself.

 

[martcov]

Yeah it's shocking and laughable.

Let's do another war analogy if we are entering the realms of the playground.

The EU is a modern equivalent of the third Reich. History tells you one thing. When Germany wants something the rest of Europe collaborate and crumble - with one exception.

Oh look it's history repeating itself.

Yes you are in the playground. History tells you many things. Usually when you have to go with the begging bowl you lose out. Have fun in the playground....

 

[Grendel]

Yes you are in the playground. History tells you many things. Usually when you have to go with the begging bowl you lose out. Have fun in the playground....

So every country outside the eu goes to the begging bowl to arrange a trade deal? Amazed how all the countries out the EU are still going.

 

[martcov]

So every country outside the eu goes to the begging bowl to arrange a trade deal? Amazed how all the countries out the EU are still going.

In the case of us ..we are starting from afresh.., we were 40 years in the EU. Now everyone knows we have to catch up.... do you think that we are in a stronger position than other countries?

 

[Grendel]

In the case of us ..we are starting from afresh.., we were 40 years in the EU. Now everyone knows we have to catch up.... do you think that we are in a stronger position than other countries?

If we are significant trade partners now then yes. Believe it or not we actually are somewhat more desirable a prospect than many countries in Europe for many reasons.

There is an economic theory that if we offered a global free trade arrangement the economy would quadruple overnight. We can't do that clearly as we need some form of protectionism (we are despite your silliness above the 9th largest manufacturing country in the world) but it's absurd to suggest that countries will not trade with us as we are not in the EU

 

[Grendel]

Well there you go...... shfwhf if we have to trade our armed forces for a trade deal we would have access to through the EU.

So you think we shouldn't assist if North Korea strike!

Wow.

 

[skybluetony176]

If we are significant trade partners now then yes. Believe it or not we actually are somewhat more desirable a prospect than many countries in Europe for many reasons.

There is an economic theory that if we offered a global free trade arrangement the economy would quadruple overnight. We can't do that clearly as we need some form of protectionism (we are despite your silliness above the 9th largest manufacturing country in the world) but it's absurd to suggest that countries will not trade with us as we are not in the EU

So basically we're going to have to have an EU style protectionist trade arrangement with our trading partners is what you're saying. Tell me, are we in a stronger bargaining position on our own or as part of the EU block? Is Japan going to upset the second largest importing country (Germany) of cars in favour of the UK? Or how about the EU as a whole who import over 4 times as many cars than the UK every year?

Also being more desirable than other countries in Europe is irrelevant if they're a member of the EU. They don't trade on individual merit they trade on the collective merit of the EU and as yet we've seen zero evidence that we're going to carry more merit on our own than as part of the EU. Plenty of rhetoric but no proof.

 

[martcov]

So you think we shouldn't assist if North Korea strike!

Wow.

North Korea is not the problem. China would be involved if push comes to shove. If everyone commits to fire and fury and then it kicks off.. then we have the situation as at the start of WW1. I wouldn't be signing any deals pledging us to involvement.

 

[Grendel]

North Korea is not the problem. China would be involved if push comes to shove. If everyone commits to fire and fury and then it kicks off.. then we have the situation as at the start of WW1. I wouldn't be signing any deals pledging us to involvement.

It has nothing to do with World War 1 you clown there are zero comparisons.

So if they attacked Japan or S Korea or Guam your advice is keep your head down? You suit Europe.

 

[Ashdown]

North Korea is not the problem. China would be involved if push comes to shove. If everyone commits to fire and fury and then it kicks off.. then we have the situation as at the start of WW1. I wouldn't be signing any deals pledging us to involvement.

North Korea..............Miserable little shits ! I read something the other day that might explain their bitterness..........apparently they have the smallest erect cocks in the world at an average of 3.8". Now thats a FACT as they say on here and they're obviously suffering from small cock syndrome !?

 

[martcov]

It has nothing to do with World War 1 you clown there are zero comparisons.

So if they attacked Japan or S Korea or Guam your advice is keep your head down? You suit Europe.

No. I said that if everyone signs pledges to go to war, then it could quickly escalate - as has happened before. China will never allow North Korea to fall to Western powers. We would follow a resolution from the UN.

 

[martcov]

North Korea..............Miserable little shits ! I read something the other day that might explain their bitterness..........apparently they have the smallest erect cocks in the world at an average of 3.8". Now thats a FACT as they say on here and they're obviously suffering from small cock syndrome !?

Ok. I believe you. Any info on Trump? Might explain a lot.