Oh Jeremy Corbyn (15 Viewers)

[skybluegod]

do you think it's fair that hard working people have to use food banks?

No ofc it’s not, but say I earn 200,000 a year, why is it right that I only take 116,000 home?
I have no problem with paying tax, but I do when there are people that sit on their areas all day, and expect hard working people to pay for it.

 

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[skybluegod]

I believe corporations like google and Amazon should pay more tax ofc before that’s brought up

 

[SBAndy]

No ofc it’s not, but say I earn 200,000 a year, why is it right that I only take 116,000 home?
I have no problem with paying tax, but I do when there are people that sit on their areas all day, and expect hard working people to pay for it.

So the tax income only supports lazy people's lifestyle? Have a day off.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Can find or google yourself. I'm out and about so can find later. The economic theory is called the laffer curve.

I understand the theory but it's whether it is purely down to this theory or other factors. Banks have been recovering profitability since the CT rate was cut for example.

 

[mrtrench]

This food bank stuff is just being used by labour to grab power. For starters, nobody is dependent on them as visiting them is limited , they are intended as emergency stop gaps due to cash flow issues. Secondly, the increase in usage can at least partially be explained by the Tories allowing their existence to be advertised by social services. Finally, the nurse who claimed to be dependent on them turned out to be a momentum member.

Telling people that they are being hard done by, even if they were happy, is the oldest trick in the book to stir up unrest. Mao did it, Corbyn's doing it. And all the faithful feel indignation on behalf of all the people they don't know who are starving, and they can use it as an excuse to threaten others, dehumanise them and write horrible graffiti on their doors.

 

[mrtrench]

I understand the theory but it's whether it is purely down to this theory or other factors. Banks have been recovering profitability since the CT rate was cut for example.

It will be a mixture, clearly. If he raises taxes the take may not reduce, or may not reduce for years as it filters through. But we would never know if the take would have been higher had he let them be. In all honesty, business will up sticks just on the election through fear of what he will do, so it may make no difference. There will be an immediate impact in markets but will take several years for the policy impact to really start hurting re inflation and unemployment.

 

[skybluetony176]

No ofc it’s not, but say I earn 200,000 a year, why is it right that I only take 116,000 home?
I have no problem with paying tax, but I do when there are people that sit on their areas all day, and expect hard working people to pay for it.

Paying taxes justifies the money you earn. I wouldn't complain about taking home £116k a year home, in many respects your top line is irrelevant. I take home a tenth of what you do a year and I too don't like people who sit on their arse all day and expect hard working people to pay for it. We're equal on that one, you don't get any bonus points because you pay more tax.

Truth is as a country we need individually and collectively a rethink on how and what tax we pay. We all want a first class public sector whether that be schools, hospitals, the number of firefighters, the number of police on the streets etc. but no one wants to pay for it regardless of what they earn. Take Denmark for instance, one of the highest tax rates in Europe, draconian I think one poster referred to it on here yet they're regularly rated as the happiest nation on earth. They have a first class public sector, good work life balance and high standards of living. If that's draconian I'll take it every day of the week.

 

[skybluegod]

Paying taxes justifies the money you earn. I wouldn't complain about taking home £116k a year home, in many respects your top line is irrelevant. I take home a tenth of what you do a year and I too don't like people who sit on their arse all day and expect hard working people to pay for it. We're equal on that one, you don't get any bonus points because you pay more tax.

Truth is as a country we need individually and collectively a rethink on how and what tax we pay. We all want a first class public sector whether that be schools, hospitals, the number of firefighters, the number of police on the streets etc. but no one wants to pay for it regardless of what they earn. Take Denmark for instance, one of the highest tax rates in Europe, draconian I think one poster referred to it on here yet they're regularly rated as the happiest nation on earth. They have a first class public sector, good work life balance and high standards of living. If that's draconian I'll take it every day of the week.

I don’t take that much home, but the fact that you take home only 60% of what you earn if you did earn 200,000, is ridiculous imo. I don’t see how it is fair and equal. That if you earn more you pay more.
I like the idea of a set rate for everybody, over a certain amount, it may not be financially viable but I don’t think it’s fair. But that’s my opinion and not everybody will agree.

Tbh I hate comparing countries, as it’s like comparing people. Not every country is the same and there are always so many different variables.

I just think punishing the people that have worked so hard to get to where they are puts some people off pushing themselves to the next level, which in itself harms quality of life... it might not be many. But still.

No you don’t get bonus points for paying more tax ofc not.

And yes I agree we do need a rethink of our tax system.
I think there is a ridiculous stat that if everybody in England paid £3 a year towards the NHS, then the huge financial crisis they are going through would be solved.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Sky was speaking to people in Worthing, older wiser heads were saying no way would they vote Labour but the the young and naive all for the great give away, little realising that they'll have to pay heavily for it a decade down the line.

At the last election I was talking to my 17yr old about who they'd vote for given the chance. They were saying they'd vote Labour as they'd have free everything. Then Corbyn admitted he'd got his sums wrong and couldn't guarantee free university degree's. He lost credibility and votes straight away.
The fact that Labour are planning for a run on the pound should they ever get into power says everything about how they are and how they think they are perceived by other countries.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don’t take that much home, but the fact that you take home only 60% of what you earn if you did earn 200,000, is ridiculous imo. I don’t see how it is fair and equal. That if you earn more you pay more.
I like the idea of a set rate for everybody, over a certain amount, it may not be financially viable but I don’t think it’s fair. But that’s my opinion and not everybody will agree.

Tbh I hate comparing countries, as it’s like comparing people. Not every country is the same and there are always so many different variables.

I just think punishing the people that have worked so hard to get to where they are puts some people off pushing themselves to the next level, which in itself harms quality of life... it might not be many. But still.

No you don’t get bonus points for paying more tax ofc not.

And yes I agree we do need a rethink of our tax system.
I think there is a ridiculous stat that if everybody in England paid £3 a year towards the NHS, then the huge financial crisis they are going through would be solved.

Who said anything about punishing people who work hard? Paying tax is not a punishment. If somebody is put off working hard and pushing yourself by the idea of paying tax, I think they're probably not the high flyer they thought they were.

As a proportion of income, low and middle earners pay more tax in general than the very rich (including VAT and duty).

It's often sighted that the richest 10% pay x% amount of total income tax, what isn't sighted is how much that 10% are paid in the first place. Individuals earning middling wages on PAYE don't have the access or opportunity to have their income paid through other means, something the very rich do and exploit to its greatest extent (see Gary Barlow etc).

 

[torchomatic]

Sky was speaking to people in Worthing, older wiser heads were saying no way would they vote Labour but the the young and naive all for the great give away, little realising that they'll have to pay heavily for it a decade down the line.

Again this echoes Brexit. Selfish old people - my Dad included - voted for Brexit yet it will be the young, who in the main voted remain, who will suffer.

 

[mrtrench]

Who said anything about punishing people who work hard? Paying tax is not a punishment. If somebody is put off working hard and pushing yourself by the idea of paying tax, I think they're probably not the high flyer they thought they were.

As a proportion of income, low and middle earners pay more tax in general than the very rich (including VAT and duty).

It's often sighted that the richest 10% pay x% amount of total income tax, what isn't sighted is how much that 10% are paid in the first place. Individuals earning middling wages on PAYE don't have the access or opportunity to have their income paid through other means, something the very rich do and exploit to its greatest extent (see Gary Barlow etc).

Cannot agree with any of that. How can someone paying 60% in tax and ni pay less of their income in tax than someone paying nothing, or at the lowest band?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

You've changed your tune!

I assumed the OP was a wind-up.

Surely no one could seriously believe yesterday's dreadfully dull, vacuous performance by Ol' Jezza a good speech.

 

[mrtrench]

Again this echoes Brexit. Selfish old people - my Dad included - voted for Brexit yet it will be the young, who in the main voted remain, who will suffer.

????

Not voting labour is selfish? Echoes of Caitlin Moran's c**t tweet.

 

[Ashdown]

Again this echoes Brexit. Selfish old people - my Dad included - voted for Brexit yet it will be the young, who in the main voted remain, who will suffer.

When they could be bothered to get off their lazy arses or pull their noses out of 'social media' for half an hour !............Besides will they really 'suffer' ??

 

[skybluegod]

Who said anything about punishing people who work hard? Paying tax is not a punishment. If somebody is put off working hard and pushing yourself by the idea of paying tax, I think they're probably not the high flyer they thought they were.

As a proportion of income, low and middle earners pay more tax in general than the very rich (including VAT and duty).

It's often sighted that the richest 10% pay x% amount of total income tax, what isn't sighted is how much that 10% are paid in the first place. Individuals earning middling wages on PAYE don't have the access or opportunity to have their income paid through other means, something the very rich do and exploit to its greatest extent (see Gary Barlow etc).

Okay so you haven’t really made a point against what I said?
I agree the middle earners pay more that’s correct. But again that isn’t right.

Well is it? I don’t feel this way personally , as I always like to push myself to the next level. but I have heard people argue, that they have been offered say £90,000 a year, when they are already earning £60,000, and they are offered this promotion but the job entails numberous more ours, responsibilities, and stress. When the actual money going into their pocket is probably close to half that? So say 75000? It’s not worth it for some people.

 

[Grendel]

Again this echoes Brexit. Selfish old people - my Dad included - voted for Brexit yet it will be the young, who in the main voted remain, who will suffer.

They'll suffer far more if they have their way and get mr Corbyn in power.

 

[Sick Boy]

My parents are both mid 60s and have never voted Tory. Not all over 60s are selfish, condescending arseholes.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Cannot agree with any of that. How can someone paying 60% in tax and ni pay less of their income in tax than someone paying nothing, or at the lowest band?

Proportion of their income. Somebody earning 22k a year pays around 17% in Income Tax / NI, then will pay Council Tax (they'll pay the same CT as somebody earning 100k if their house is in the same band for example which is a higher proportion of their pay). If they put £40 of fuel in their car a week, the proportion of duty they pay again is higher than same as somebody who earns more but spends the same on fuel. Go out for 10 pints, the same rule again.

 

[clint van damme]

I assumed the OP was a wind-up.

Surely no one could seriously believe yesterday's dreadfully dull, vacuous performance by Ol' Jezza a good speech.

to be fair, if anyone knows about dull and vacuous it's you!

 

[clint van damme]

This food bank stuff is just being used by labour to grab power. For starters, nobody is dependent on them as visiting them is limited , they are intended as emergency stop gaps due to cash flow issues. Secondly, the increase in usage can at least partially be explained by the Tories allowing their existence to be advertised by social services. Finally, the nurse who claimed to be dependent on them turned out to be a momentum member.

Telling people that they are being hard done by, even if they were happy, is the oldest trick in the book to stir up unrest. Mao did it, Corbyn's doing it. And all the faithful feel indignation on behalf of all the people they don't know who are starving, and they can use it as an excuse to threaten others, dehumanise them and write horrible graffiti on their doors.

I can whole whole heartedly assure you that you are talking rubbish.
I only found out a few years ago what a life line they are for some (working) people.
Of course there will be those who abuse them but having working people with a genuine need to use them is a scandal, and I can tell you categorically that I have encountered such people.

 

[Grendel]

I can whole whole heartedly assure you that you are talking rubbish.
I only found out a few years ago what a life line they are for some (working) people.
Of course there will be those who abuse them but having working people with a genuine need to use them is a scandal, and I can tell you categorically that I have encountered such people.

A fairly detailed study concluded actually 5 out of 6 are unemployed and hardly any in regular permenant employment.

Unemployed should really receive food vouchers as a means of support instead of payments - they should have their basic needs satisfied before they receive pay from the state.

 

[clint van damme]

A fairly detailed study concluded actually 5 out of 6 are unemployed and hardly any in regular permenant employment.

Unemployed should really receive food vouchers as a means of support instead of payments - they should have their basic needs satisfied before they receive pay from the state.

I can assure you that's bollocks, in my experience anyway, unless they've counted children as unemployed and even then I wouldn't believe it.
As for those not in regular permanent employment, that's what having a zero hours culture does for society.

 

[torchomatic]

????

Not voting labour is selfish? Echoes of Caitlin Moran's c**t tweet.

Nope. Voting for Brexit was.

 

[Grendel]

I can assure you that's bollocks, in my experience anyway, unless they've counted children as unemployed and even then I wouldn't believe it.
As for those not in regular permanent employment, that's what having a zero hours culture does for society.

Here it is:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-40431701

 

[Old Warwickshire lad]

As an old fashioned socialist in the Denis Skinner mould, I cringe every time I hear them singing " Oh Jeremy Corbyn " :stop:

 

[Grendel]

Nope. Voting for Brexit was.

Out of the management team I work with 7 out of 8 of us voted brexit. We all have school age children and all but one university educated.

Can you explain why we are selfish?

 

[skybluegod]

I can assure you that's bollocks, in my experience anyway, unless they've counted children as unemployed and even then I wouldn't believe it.
As for those not in regular permanent employment, that's what having a zero hours culture does for society.

Well the solution of getting rid of zero hour contracts and driving up minimum wage will almost certainly mean less jobs, and higher unemployment?

 

[clint van damme]

Here it is:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-40431701

to be fair that's a fairly accurate article with regard to the type of users but I don't get the 5 out of 6 are unemployed statistic.
Income shock is a massive factor though, though those people using it aren't generally regular users.
I don't know how anyone can read that article and be so dismissive of people in need, there is such a lack of empathy in society now it's depressing.

 

[clint van damme]

Well the solution of getting rid of zero hour contracts and driving up minimum wage will almost certainly mean less jobs, and higher unemployment?

this country managed perfectly well without zero hour contracts before they came along, it's just exploitation.

 

[Old Warwickshire lad]

Well the solution of getting rid of zero hour contracts and driving up minimum wage will almost certainly mean less jobs, and higher unemployment?

Why ?

 

[Grendel]

to be fair that's a fairly accurate article with regard to the type of users but I don't get the 5 out of 6 are unemployed statistic.
Income shock is a massive factor though, though those people using it aren't generally regular users.
I don't know how anyone can read that article and be so dismissive of people in need, there is such a lack of empathy in society now it's depressing.

Another report said increased useage is correlated with awareness and becomes self perpetuating. It concludes its impossible to associate the growth with increasing poverty.

 

[clint van damme]

Another report said increased useage is correlated with awareness and becomes self perpetuating. It concludes its impossible to associate the growth with increasing poverty.

I wouldn't say that's never the case but I wouldn't agree it's the norm.
Changes to the benefit system for disabled people and lack of steady work, (zero hours contracts etc), have left a lot of people struggling badly and at the mercy of a very cruel welfare system and in genuine need.
The fact this country has been criticised by the UN over it's record on disabled rights is shameful. I'm actually a little shocked at how little it was mentioned at the Labour party conference, (unless I MISSED IT).

 

[Sick Boy]

I volunteered at a food bank a bit last year and can assure you that a lot of the people using them have little choice and even feel a great deal of shame.

Luckily there are still people with compassion who donate food and a lot of time to help these people, it was bloody depressing.

**Awaits virtual signalling bollocks**

 

[Grendel]

I volunteered at a food bank a bit last year and can assure you that a lot of the people using them have little choice and even feel a great deal of shame.

Luckily there are still people with compassion who donate food and a lot of time to help these people, it was bloody depressing.

**Awaits virtual signalling bollocks**

Amazing how you always have a personal story to tell to suit your argument even if it contradicts actual research on the subject

Forgive me if I go with the research.

The research says one factor for going is a feeling of unity and comradeship as many users are lonely and without contact and routines - so I'm surprised it was depressing.

The only foodbanks I contribute to are to animal sanctuarys.