The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (28 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Yes, and they should enforce it if it is not being adhered to. Easier to blame the EU for some people though.

The irony being he's complaining about wages being suppressed yet a party who pledged to address this by raising the minimum wage to £10 an hour by 2020 is the looney left who would bring the country down should they ever get in.

 

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[Grendel]

I used to temp in a warehouse near Butler's Leap back when I was a student and half of the workers were eastern European and earning decent money. We were still shortstaffed even then.

Wow more anecdotal evidence - no doubt if Junker said the air on Mars was habitatable and against all scientific evidence you'd confirm it's true as you've a mate living there

 

[Sick Boy]

Wow more anecdotal evidence - no doubt if Junker said the air on Mars was habitatable and against all scientific evidence you'd confirm it's true as you've a mate living there

Ahhh yes, it's such an uncommon thing to have temped in a wharehouse as a student. I also worked as a chef for around 6 years and did some labouring as well.

 

[Kingokings204]

Minimum wage is law. If they're not paying it then they stand to be taken to court. You assume that British people will always do the jobs that EU migrants will do. In the majority of cases they will and UK and EU workers will work side by side. When I worked on building sites I worked alongside many Eastern Europeans and we were on the same rates. The problem my trade had was a lack of qualified and skilled workers, this was made up with EU migrants. I know plenty of people who do warehouse work and work alongside EU immigrants all on the same rate and better than minimum wage. I know a supervisor at one of the big warehouses in Rugby and they simply don't get enough UK applicants to fill their workforce. Then you have service sectors, again can't get UK applicants. Then you get seasonal farm work, again, where are these UK applicants willing to do the job?

I never claimed that EU migrants are all earning the living wage, some are and better but even then the point still stands. Who's surpressing wages in the UK when we have a minimum and living wage that the government can raise at will?

Yeah that's fine and CVD made a good post also about his work but not every one pays minimum/living wage and there are ways round it even legally via "apprentice schemes" etc.

Yeah I accept some British workers don't want to do these jobs and some are even benefit scroungers I don't think that's unknown either but one thing the Tory government has done has got people back to work and record employment figures suggest this. People are working again because the gap between working and benefits has been reduced.

You will never get everyone wanting off benefits and claim every penny they can. That's life sadly.

My point in general was Eastern European workers can work for a a few quid an hour and do a mundane job because they often have many to one house as we saw in London the other week was it 12 in one house? And because the minimum wage in these countries is about £1 an hour equilivant.

We need migrants to come here of course we do but they undercut and take a lot from people here already. Wage compression is undeniable over the last ten years. As I said before free movement may help big companies and big businesses but it's doesnt help communities intergrate and wages rise.

I even heard now some skilled industries such a builders and construction are even being badly hit wages wise now.

 

[Sick Boy]

It's always funny that cities like London ad Leicester with high migrant/2nd/3rd generation populations are well integrated and seem to be pro-immigration.

 

[Kingokings204]

The irony being he's complaining about wages being suppressed yet a party who pledged to address this by raising the minimum wage to £10 an hour by 2020 is the looney left who would bring the country down should they ever get in.

You don't get it do you? Your solution from corbyn is an appealing £10 an hour. First of all is it deliverable? And secondly you've just made the problem worse as even more will come and net migration will be even higher. We can't cope now with nhs and schools and roads and houses. Put it up to £10 a hour and more will come thus decreasing wages more and more and more strain on the mentioned above.

I don't blame a single migrant who comes here Tony. If I lived in Romania a fairly corrupt country I think its fair to say , poor and poverty stricken and earning 70p an hour and I could move to the uk and pick fruit for £10 an hour I know what I would be doing.

 

[martcov]

Yeah that's fine and CVD made a good post also about his work but not every one pays minimum/living wage and there are ways round it even legally via "apprentice schemes" etc.

Yeah I accept some British workers don't want to do these jobs and some are even benefit scroungers I don't think that's unknown either but one thing the Tory government has done has got people back to work and record employment figures suggest this. People are working again because the gap between working and benefits has been reduced.

You will never get everyone wanting off benefits and claim every penny they can. That's life sadly.

My point in general was Eastern European workers can work for a a few quid an hour and do a mundane job because they often have many to one house as we saw in London the other week was it 12 in one house? And because the minimum wage in these countries is about £1 an hour equilivant.

We need migrants to come here of course we do but they undercut and take a lot from people here already. Wage compression is undeniable over the last ten years. As I said before free movement may help big companies and big businesses but it's doesnt help communities intergrate and wages rise.

I even heard now some skilled industries such a builders and construction are even being badly hit wages wise now.

Where is it 1£ am hour?

 

[Kingokings204]

It's always funny that cities like London ad Leicester with high migrant/2nd/3rd generation populations are well integrated and seem to be pro-immigration.

Yet Again. We are all pro immigration. Not seen one person say they aren't. Speaking for me I'm very pro immigration. It's vital to this country. Im pro controlled immigration in sensible numbers and a an infrastructure to boot.

 

[martcov]

You don't get it do you? Your solution from corbyn is an appealing £10 an hour. First of all is it deliverable? And secondly you've just made the problem worse as even more will come and net migration will be even higher. We can't cope now with nhs and schools and roads and houses. Put it up to £10 a hour and more will come thus decreasing wages more and more and more strain on the mentioned above.

I don't blame a single migrant who comes here Tony. If I lived in Romania a fairly corrupt country I think its fair to say , poor and poverty stricken and earning 70p an hour and I could move to the uk and pick fruit for £10 an hour I know what I would be doing.

How do they decrease wages under 10£ an hour? At 10£ an hour more Brits would perhaps rather work than scrounge.

 

[martcov]

You don't get it do you? Your solution from corbyn is an appealing £10 an hour. First of all is it deliverable? And secondly you've just made the problem worse as even more will come and net migration will be even higher. We can't cope now with nhs and schools and roads and houses. Put it up to £10 a hour and more will come thus decreasing wages more and more and more strain on the mentioned above.

I don't blame a single migrant who comes here Tony. If I lived in Romania a fairly corrupt country I think its fair to say , poor and poverty stricken and earning 70p an hour and I could move to the uk and pick fruit for £10 an hour I know what I would be doing.

If they get the same as Brits working for minimum wage they are not undercutting. So where's the problem? As an example: Estonia minimum monthly wage is 470€,
meaning hourly minimum is about 3€. Can't speak for Bulgaria.

 

[Kingokings204]

Where is it 1£ am hour?

£1.20 an hour in Bulgaria for example.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yet Again. We are all pro immigration. Not seen one person say they aren't. Speaking for me I'm very pro immigration. It's vital to this country. Im pro controlled immigration in sensible numbers and a an infrastructure to boot.

That's fair enough, my genuine belief is that the numbers coming into the country are going to change very little though.

 

[Sick Boy]

£1.20 an hour in Bulgaria for example.

The cost of living in Bulgaria is a hell of a lot cheaper than it is here though.

 

[Kingokings204]

That's fair enough, my genuine belief is that the numbers coming into the country are going to change very little though.

Well don't get me wrong. We need a strong government to implement correct procedures and I'm not entirely convinced myself just yet.

Immigration is vital to this country but it has to be controlled and fair. At the moment it is neither.

 

[Kingokings204]

The cost of living in Bulgaria is a hell of a lot cheaper than it is here though.

Very very true. The point is though in Bulgaria do they get a world class nhs service? Do they get a free great quality state school system? GP appointments on the day? Decent houses and fine work conditions? Good benefits to claim?

This is why such huge numbers come to this country.

 

[Sick Boy]

Very very true. The point is though in Bulgaria do they get a world class nhs service? Do they get a free great quality state school system? GP appointments on the day? Decent houses and fine work conditions? Good benefits to claim?

This is why such huge numbers come to this country.

There were 69000 here according to the census in 2015. I spar with a Bulgarian occasionally, I will ask him. Happy to get a photo for Grendel as well.

 

[skybluetony176]

You don't get it do you? Your solution from corbyn is an appealing £10 an hour. First of all is it deliverable? And secondly you've just made the problem worse as even more will come and net migration will be even higher. We can't cope now with nhs and schools and roads and houses. Put it up to £10 a hour and more will come thus decreasing wages more and more and more strain on the mentioned above.

I don't blame a single migrant who comes here Tony. If I lived in Romania a fairly corrupt country I think its fair to say , poor and poverty stricken and earning 70p an hour and I could move to the uk and pick fruit for £10 an hour I know what I would be doing.

I remember when the minimum wage came in it was widely condemned by business and was going to lead to redundancy, increased prices, businesses going bankrupt etc. etc. and non of it ever happened. If anything ironically in the medium to long term it probably suppressed wages because it took so long to go up again. It's never risen in line with inflation or average wage increases in the same periods. If anything £10 an hour is probably just addressing the problem of suppression since minimum wage came in. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually turned out that it still wouldn't be high enough to address the suppression under successive governments. Wages only ever really get suppressed at the bottom of the scale and governments always have the ability to address that. Should they wish. That is the point.

 

[Grendel]

There were 69000 here according to the census in 2015. I spar with a Bulgarian occasionally, I will ask him. Happy to get a photo for Grendel as well.

Suprised you don't know more

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/31f139f6-8296-11e7-a4ce-15b2513cb3ff

 

[Sick Boy]

Suprised you don't know more

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/31f139f6-8296-11e7-a4ce-15b2513cb3ff

Not a subscriber, sorry.

 

[martcov]

Very very true. The point is though in Bulgaria do they get a world class nhs service? Do they get a free great quality state school system? GP appointments on the day? Decent houses and fine work conditions? Good benefits to claim?

This is why such huge numbers come to this country.

According to Astute there are millions of homeless, a collapsed health system and only jobs with terrible wages here.... you two had better work out your argument a bit better- you can't both be right.

 

[Ashdown]

Crikey this thread is turning into the Mart farts and sick fucker likes it and vice versa...............neither I might add with the interests of the UK at heart !

 

[Sick Boy]

Crikey this thread is turning into the Mart farts and sick fucker likes it and vice versa...............neither I might add with the interests of the UK at heart !

And I suppose all those in favour Brexit do then?

 

[martcov]

Crikey this thread is turning into the Mart farts and sick fucker likes it and vice versa...............neither I might add with the interests of the UK at heart !

I thought you were retiring to Spain? So you won't be suffering if Brexit goes pearshape. I think the interests of the U.K. are better served in a union with Europe than as a single country. That doesn't make me anti UK. You have been reading too many crap newspapers.

 

[Astute]

Or, EU jobs for EU citizens? How many houses extra had May just propsed btw?

And how many do you think will get built?

So why is May useless until she says something you like?

 

[Astute]

And I suppose all those in favour Brexit do then?

I am in favour of the homeless. I am in favour of the homeless amount not continuing to grow at a fast pace.

Yet it doesn't seem to bother you. And you have had no answer for it other than to blame the Tories. And Labour have been in charge for 13 of the last 20 years.

 

[martcov]

And how many do you think will get built?

So why is May useless until she says something you like?

Nothing to do with what I like.,...

 

[Astute]

I thought you were retiring to Spain? So you won't be suffering if Brexit goes pearshape. I think the interests of the U.K. are better served in a union with Europe than as a single country. That doesn't make me anti UK. You have been reading too many crap newspapers.

You have been reading too much pro EU crap.

If the EU had the people as it's best intentions it would all go well. But they are more interested in the gravy train continuing. They don't care about the Spanish getting attacked by the police. Catalonia generates over 25% of Spains wealth. Spain would be an even bigger basket case without Catalonia. So the EU does nothing.

So you think that the EU won't allow us to holiday throughout the EU when many depend on us going there? Or we won't be able to live there if we can afford it? As in not work but spend our wealth there?

 

[Astute]

Nothing to do with what I like.,...

Or believe until it helps your side of the debate.

 

[Sick Boy]

I am in favour of the homeless. I am in favour of the homeless amount not continuing to grow at a fast pace.

Yet it doesn't seem to bother you. And you have had no answer for it other than to blame the Tories. And Labour have been in charge for 13 of the last 20 years.

Inaccurate an I've already answered this last week.

 

[Sick Boy]

You have been reading too much pro EU crap.

If the EU had the people as it's best intentions it would all go well. But they are more interested in the gravy train continuing. They don't care about the Spanish getting attacked by the police. Catalonia generates over 25% of Spains wealth. Spain would be an even bigger basket case without Catalonia. So the EU does nothing.

So you think that the EU won't allow us to holiday throughout the EU when many depend on us going there? Or we won't be able to live there if we can afford it? As in not work but spend our wealth there?

So now you want the EU to get involved in domestic politics? Make your mind up!

If Britain becomes a 3rd country you'll be able enter so many days out of the 365. Believe it or nor but other EU citizens holiday in the EU as well and they have wealth. The world does not revolve around Britain.

After all, a lot of the British immigrants in Spain don't learn the language, don't integrate, and seem to keep themselves to themselves.

 

[mrtrench]

I remember when the minimum wage came in it was widely condemned by business and was going to lead to redundancy, increased prices, businesses going bankrupt etc. etc. and non of it ever happened. If anything ironically in the medium to long term it probably suppressed wages because it took so long to go up again. It's never risen in line with inflation or average wage increases in the same periods. If anything £10 an hour is probably just addressing the problem of suppression since minimum wage came in. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually turned out that it still wouldn't be high enough to address the suppression under successive governments. Wages only ever really get suppressed at the bottom of the scale and governments always have the ability to address that. Should they wish. That is the point.

This question has a point: What do you think would happen if the minimum wage were £50 per hour?

 

[Grendel]

Not a subscriber, sorry.

360,000 Bulgarian and Romanians

 

[mrtrench]

Yes, but imagine what the company Tony works for would do.

They export I believe? What impact would it have on their competitiveness abroad?
Would they invest in more automation and release people?
When they hired people, would they take a risk on a school leaver, or would they rather bring in experienced and skilled people from outside the UK?
What would happen with inflation? How would that impact the unemployed, who might now find it even more difficult to find work?

I'm not against a minimum wage per se, although I prefer a free market which can find its own level. I prefer lots of competition in the jobs market so that wages find the correct level for the economy.
My point is, if one can imagine the economic consequences of a crazy number like £50 per hour, and one accepts that there isn't a magic number at which suddenly these consequences ignite (it happens gradually - a small move in minimum wage causes a small change in the economy), then one can understand that there could be negative impacts from a rise of some 50%+ to £10.

 

[Sick Boy]

360,000 Bulgarian and Romanians

What's the breakdown? I'm sure there are something like 250k Romanians in the UK now?

Not sure why you've suddenly lumped the 2 nationalities together now?

 

[Ashdown]

I thought you were retiring to Spain? So you won't be suffering if Brexit goes pearshape. I think the interests of the U.K. are better served in a union with Europe than as a single country. That doesn't make me anti UK. You have been reading too many crap newspapers.

If you actually spent any decent time in the UK, you would see and read about what is happening here thanks to free movement from Europe plus mass migration from elsewhere round the world creating overpopulation and all the negative consequences of that. The EU offers nothing but a stick to beat money out of us with, money that then serves the interests of other European nations. I hardly read any 'Newspapers' actually because I can't be bothered with the political bias in most of them.