The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (32 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

So who is trying to be difficult?

Yes the EU. They are giving it their best chance on us staying in the EU. Can you imagine how bad it will be for Merkel or whoever follows her if they have to make up what we won't be paying?

You know it always amazes me when a lot of the brexit campaign was thought on the dogged, single minded and protectionist attitude of the EU being a reason for brexit and then brexit voters acting all surprised when the EU acts dogged, single minded and protectionist in negotiations. It’s almost as if they didn’t think this through.

 

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[Sick Boy]

That’s true. The incompetence of Davies will let every nation walk all over us. The “irrelevant” articles linked this morning point to just that scenario.

As we were about to enter negotiations, he seemed to think that the UK would be able to sign trade deals with individual EU countries. Frightening stuff.

 

[Ashdown]

With the 9% drop in car sales in September, the building trade going into recession and the falling pound making imports more expensive, they better get a move on before the U.K. Market loses it's allure...Try Schneider Original.... I prefer that ( although Erdinger is also good ). I have Schneider on draught in my pub... I sell a bit of Twisted Barrel from Cov, also on draught.... my bit to help the balance of trade ;-)

Some of the Byatts beers also made in Cov are worth a try. I like the Phoenix Gold ! Keep up the good work !

 

[skybluetony176]

And will soon be a huge problem when rates rise

Depends. That’s not the only factor determining the strength of the Euro. One of the major factors has been the quantitative easing program that’s been running on the Euro for years now weakening it’s value on the world stage. There’s a very real chance that will end next year (I read an article in the FT about it a few weeks ago so I won’t bother linking it as I know it will be irrelevant) and this will give the euro a sizeable shot in the arm. This is why they’re talking about polarity with the pound happening next year. Unlike the pound and the UK the euro and euro zone may very well be able to afford a rise in interest rates come next year. Time will tell.

 

[Ashdown]

Byatt's Range Of Beers - Byatts Brewery

 

[Astute]

Ha ha ha. That’s priceless. It’s across several publications of different leanings which if anything makes it balanced. Or in Grendull world, irrelevant. Must remember that line next time you link the FT as fact.

So me mentioning that it is ironic that someone always has a go at a link from a certain paper....the Sun....then mentions the Sun.....is wrong because of the other links?

If you constantly say an outlet of news gives out nothing but bullshit what are you saying when you quote that outlet?

Or is it OK because it fits in with his own view for once?

 

[Astute]

I never said HMO’s were good but they are a fact of life and they do help alleviate some of the strain on the housing crisis. It’s not like Polish people are turning up and taking a house each exacerbating the housing crisis further is it? And whether you like it or not they are net contributers to the economy and represent tax income. Tax income that’s not being invested in housing to anywhere near the extent that’s needed. That’s not their fault, it’s not even the EU’s fault it’s the failing of successive governments of all the major parties.

Where you being deliberately ironic when you originally asked me the question and stated “without blaming anyone else”? I’ve layed the blame squarely at our own door and you don’t agree with it. Maybe you meant blame everyone else.

The reason it would take many years to catch up is because we have many years to catch up on.

So everything that is wrong is OK because it is a fact of life?

 

[Astute]

Depends. That’s not the only factor determining the strength of the Euro. One of the major factors has been the quantitative easing program that’s been running on the Euro for years now weakening it’s value on the world stage. There’s a very real chance that will end next year (I read an article in the FT about it a few weeks ago so I won’t bother linking it as I know it will be irrelevant) and this will give the euro a sizeable shot in the arm. This is why they’re talking about polarity with the pound happening next year. Unlike the pound and the UK the euro and euro zone may very well be able to afford a rise in interest rates come next year. Time will tell.

There will be a rise in interest rates. And it isn't because of the EU or Euro. Debt is too cheap. Too much is being taken on.

 

[Astute]

You know it always amazes me when a lot of the brexit campaign was thought on the dogged, single minded and protectionist attitude of the EU being a reason for brexit and then brexit voters acting all surprised when the EU acts dogged, single minded and protectionist in negotiations. It’s almost as if they didn’t think this through.

And the remain campaign was all about what?

As usual you only mention one side.

 

[Sick Boy]

So me mentioning that it is ironic that someone always has a go at a link from a certain paper....the Sun....then mentions the Sun.....is wrong because of the other links?

If you constantly say an outlet of news gives out nothing but bullshit what are you saying when you quote that outlet?

Or is it OK because it fits in with his own view for once?

I was trying to show that it is in multiple papers. If you seriously quote the Express as a source, I'm not sure why you think the Sun is worse.

 

[skybluetony176]

So me mentioning that it is ironic that someone always has a go at a link from a certain paper....the Sun....then mentions the Sun.....is wrong because of the other links?

If you constantly say an outlet of news gives out nothing but bullshit what are you saying when you quote that outlet?

Or is it OK because it fits in with his own view for once?

Difference being as I pointed out this has been covered by numerous outlets, some more respected than others but all from different political leanings. That gives the story some balance does it not? It’s not a one sided piece in one outlet that no one else has picked up and given balance to. If multiple outlets in media from different political leanings have covered the story by definition it must have relevance. It was dismissed as biased originally because of the source linked. When it was pointed out that actually it was covered across the board and therefore couldn’t be biased it was then dismissed as irrelevant.

That’s a big difference and duplicity. Not surprising given the poster who displayed it.

 

[skybluetony176]

And the remain campaign was all about what?

As usual you only mention one side.

I hate to break it to you but given the result of the referendum the remain campaign is largely irrelevant now. It’s certainly irrelevant when people act surprised at the tone coming from the EU in negotiations given that they’ve just voted leave based in part on the tone of the EU.

 

[Astute]

I was trying to show that it is in multiple papers. If you seriously quote the Express as a source, I'm not sure why you think the Sun is worse.

I know what you was doing. But if I was always saying that a certain outlet was full of shit I would never quote it for any reason.

 

[Sick Boy]

I know what you was doing. But if I was always saying that a certain outlet was full of shit I would never quote it for any reason.

It was to show that it was not a biased piece as was originally claimed.

 

[Astute]

Difference being as I pointed out this has been covered by numerous outlets, some more respected than others but all from different political leanings. That gives the story some balance does it not? It’s not a one sided piece in one outlet that no one else has picked up and given balance to. If multiple outlets in media from different political leanings have covered the story by definition it must have relevance. It was dismissed as biased originally because of the source linked. When it was pointed out that actually it was covered across the board and therefore couldn’t be biased it was then dismissed as irrelevant.

That’s a big difference and duplicity. Not surprising given the poster who displayed it.

It all started with an outlet based in Brussels. Let me think of something else based in Brussels :emoji_thinking:

I'm not saying it is wrong. Just like all of you are not saying that our homeless situation has not been made worse by migrants. I just don't believe everything that I read. Doesn't look too far out though.

You can spin anything to look good or bad. Look at this thread. Half of it is a joke.

What have I taken from this thread so far?

There wouldn't be any homeless people if we had built homes before they were needed.

Millions of people coming to live here have made no difference on the homeless situation.

HMO's are a fact of life so they are OK. But if you blame the Tories they are not.

Nobody will want to trade with us if and when we leave the EU.

We have found a country doing well with the Euro so there are no problems with the Euro.

We have had the right mix of skills come to the UK so we now need millions more. And they can all live in HMO's because it is a fact of life.

We don't know what type of homes to build because old people die.

The Sun is full of shit unless it prints what people want to read.

Our millions of homeless were caused by SB's family....all 3 of them.

The fascists in Germany are irrelevant because 87% didn't vote for them.

 

[Grendel]

There will be a rise in interest rates. And it isn't because of the EU or Euro. Debt is too cheap. Too much is being taken on.

A rise in interest rates has been artificially resisted by the European Federal Bank as it knows it will have catastrophic implications for several countries who have the single currency.

It's the big elephant in the room and resistance cannot last for ever. Countries like Greece and Portugal have effectively been having 500% mortgages on a rate 50% buyers would attract.

German banks have negative rates in a desperate attempt to prevent it.

Anyone suggesting the Euro can stand a rate rise fails to understand the single currencies biggest issues.

 

[martcov]

Some of the Byatts beers also made in Cov are worth a try. I like the Phoenix Gold ! Keep up the good work !

Byatts only do real ale and my pub has a very small cellar geared up to keg. Twisted Barrel do Key Kegs. Better for transport and with a longer shelf life ( I have to import 24 Kegs a time to make it worthwhile and as I have 7 other more commercial beers on tap, I don't have large volume for craft beer ). I have sold a few bottles of Byatts here before though - which I brought over in my car ;-).

 

[Astute]

It was to show that it was not a biased piece as was originally claimed.

So an unbiased piece was in a paper that you always call biased and bullshit?

I had better believe the opposite then as you are never wrong :shifty:

 

[martcov]

A rise in interest rates has been artificially resisted by the European Federal Bank as it knows it will have catastrophic implications for several countries who have the single currency.

It's the big elephant in the room and resistance cannot last for ever. Countries like Greece and Portugal have effectively been having 500% mortgages on a rate 50% buyers would attract.

German banks have negative rates in a desperate attempt to prevent it.

Anyone suggesting the Euro can stand a rate rise fails to understand the single currencies biggest issues.

You are suggesting a rate rise. I am hoping it gets put off. Germany is in a house building boom. They cannot build fast enough. The prices are rising even where I live which is not a major city and has it's best times behind it. All because of cheap credit. The council here is investing in projects to make the city more attractive. It can do this at last because of reduced debt and cheap finance. Our state always had problems balancing the budget, but the amount of interest payments has dropped and they can reinvest in projects again. The federal government doesn't have to borrow to balance the budget anymore. We have spent billions looking after the refugees. We would have had problems budgeting in the past, but we still got away with the refugee crisis without increasing debt to balance the budget. The longer cheap rates go on the better for many people.... but on the downside.... the banks are having problems. I got a letter today increasing bank charges and my local branch closed a few months ago. The older staff all got early retirement packages, but I don't see the branch networks surviving as they are now. They cannot make enough money to sustain branch banking as we know it. The want us to use safe bags and make contactless payments in shops ( which Germans are reluctant to do ). The taxman is persecuting majority cash businesses and the trend is to do away with cash. It is too costly to handle for the banks and the taxman likes to see where the money goes. There will have to be rate rises at some time, but who knows when.

 

[Sick Boy]

So an unbiased piece was in a paper that you always call biased and bullshit?

I had better believe the opposite then as you are never wrong :shifty:

When did I say the Sun piece was unbiased? You're making it up as you go along again.

 

[Sick Boy]

Homelessness was a problem before the upsurge in migration from the EU. As I said before, I'm sure the same was said about those coming from the former colonies.

 

[Astute]

Homelessness was a problem before the upsurge in migration from the EU. As I said before, I'm sure the same was said about those coming from the former colonies.

What was the homelessness then to now?

It has gone from thousands to millions.

Go back and find another article from the Sun.

 

[martcov]

What was the homelessness then to now?

It has gone from thousands to millions.

Go back and find another article from the Sun.

Latest figure, IIQ, for homeless applications in England:

Headlines Compared to the same quarter in 2016, the latest statistics show that between 1 April and 30 June 2017: - The total number of households making an application was 8% lower - 52% were accepted by local authorities as owed a main homelessness duty - The total number of households placed in temporary accommodation increased by 7%. - The end of an assured shorthold tenancy with a private landlord, accounted for 30% of all acceptances in England. Applications and Acceptances Applications Acceptances Rate of acceptance Acceptances for young people 27,470 households made a homelessness application at their local authority in April – June 2017. This is 8% lower than the same period last year when the total figure was 29,790 households. 14,400 households were accepted as statutorily homeless in Q2 2017. The rate of acceptance was 52% which is slightly lower than 2016 when the figure was 51% A total of 3,090 young people (aged 16 - 24) were accepted as statutory homeless. This figure is 8% lower than Q2 2016 when the figure was 3,370.

 

[Astute]

Latest figure, IIQ, for homeless applications in England:

Headlines Compared to the same quarter in 2016, the latest statistics show that between 1 April and 30 June 2017: - The total number of households making an application was 8% lower - 52% were accepted by local authorities as owed a main homelessness duty - The total number of households placed in temporary accommodation increased by 7%. - The end of an assured shorthold tenancy with a private landlord, accounted for 30% of all acceptances in England. Applications and Acceptances Applications Acceptances Rate of acceptance Acceptances for young people 27,470 households made a homelessness application at their local authority in April – June 2017. This is 8% lower than the same period last year when the total figure was 29,790 households. 14,400 households were accepted as statutorily homeless in Q2 2017. The rate of acceptance was 52% which is slightly lower than 2016 when the figure was 51% A total of 3,090 young people (aged 16 - 24) were accepted as statutory homeless. This figure is 8% lower than Q2 2016 when the figure was 3,370.

So what do you call that in plain English?

 

[martcov]

So what do you call that in plain English?

Not millions.

 

[martcov]

It all started with an outlet based in Brussels. Let me think of something else based in Brussels :emoji_thinking:

I'm not saying it is wrong. Just like all of you are not saying that our homeless situation has not been made worse by migrants. I just don't believe everything that I read. Doesn't look too far out though.

You can spin anything to look good or bad. Look at this thread. Half of it is a joke.

What have I taken from this thread so far?

There wouldn't be any homeless people if we had built homes before they were needed.

Millions of people coming to live here have made no difference on the homeless situation.

HMO's are a fact of life so they are OK. But if you blame the Tories they are not.

Nobody will want to trade with us if and when we leave the EU.

We have found a country doing well with the Euro so there are no problems with the Euro.

We have had the right mix of skills come to the UK so we now need millions more. And they can all live in HMO's because it is a fact of life.

We don't know what type of homes to build because old people die.

The Sun is full of shit unless it prints what people want to read.

Our millions of homeless were caused by SB's family....all 3 of them.

The fascists in Germany are irrelevant because 87% didn't vote for them.

The last point is true. They are irrelevant. Or about as relevant as having a stone in your shoe.

The Sun is shit.

There aren't millions of homeless. 1 is too many, but there are not millions without any form of roof over their head. It depends on how you classify homeless. Many sleeping rough have mental health problems. Many are living in temporary accomodation waiting for permanent accomodation.

I think you may have ad libbed a bit on the rest.

 

[Captain Dart]

So how many houses could be built each year?

How many years would it take to catch up with the homeless we already have?

How much will our population go up in this time?

 

[Astute]

Not millions.

Isn't it?

Why don't you read it again? It only counts certain types of homeless.

 

[Sick Boy]

Isn't it?

Why don't you read it again? It only counts certain types of homeless.

Let's just say all EU migrants were deported from the country, can you really see all of these vacant properties suddenly being gifed to homeless people by landlords? Or have the EU migrants taken their jobs away as well?

 

[Astute]

The last point is true. They are irrelevant. Or about as relevant as having a stone in your shoe.

The Sun is shit.

There aren't millions of homeless. 1 is too many, but there are not millions without any form of roof over their head. It depends on how you classify homeless. Many sleeping rough have mental health problems. Many are living in temporary accomodation waiting for permanent accomodation.

I think you may have ad libbed a bit on the rest.

How about those sofa surfing?

How about those without children that are not allowed to get any help with housing?

How about thise counted as intentionally homeless? As in lost their job and couldn't afford the rent? They don't get help either.

There are many that don't count in the numbers. Are you going to stick up for the Tories and the way they massage the figures?

 

[Sick Boy]

How about those sofa surfing?

How about those without children that are not allowed to get any help with housing?

How about thise counted as intentionally homeless? As in lost their job and couldn't afford the rent? They don't get help either.

There are many that don't count in the numbers. Are you going to stick up for the Tories and the way they massage the figures?

Oh the irony. You're one of the biggest Tory deflecters on this forum.

 

[Astute]

Let's just say all EU migrants were deported from the country, can you really see all of these vacant properties suddenly being gifed to homeless people by landlords? Or have the EU migrants taken their jobs away as well?

Are you still saying that mass immigration has had no effect on the homeless numbers?

 

[Sick Boy]

Are you still saying that mass immigration has had no effect on the homeless numbers?

Answer the question.

 

[Astute]

Oh the irony. You're one of the biggest Tory deflecters on this forum.

Bollocks.

I deal with the truth. I don't care who is to blame. You try to deflect everything away from the EU and migrants.

I don't blame people for wanting to come here. I would want to do the same. I have always done everything to better myself.

 

[Sick Boy]

Bollocks.

I deal with the truth. I don't care who is to blame. You try to deflect everything away from the EU and migrants.

I don't blame people for wanting to come here. I would want to do the same. I have always done everything to better myself.

You deflect everything away from them and previous governments and scapegoat working migrants who have come to the country and contributed to our society over this and previous decades. It's nothing other than dog whistle politics.