Cost of Obesity (14 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

It's not saying outright refuse them and let them die. I'd say more like a "penalty" system like an excess.

"Look Dave / Keith / Ian, this is your 20th appointment so far in 2 months. You really need to start trying to help yourself a bit here" type thing.

Or George this is your second liver transplant, you must stop drinking.

 

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[Nick]

You can advise but when you start having guidelines to refuse to treat then it becomes a very dangerous world.

Again, not refusing to treat full stop just making them realise it's in their own interests to help themselves and give them a nudge. Not charging them £500 for a checkup or anything, just a penalty type thing if they are taking the piss.

Say I was hammering cans of red bull every day and went to the doctors because it was having an effect on me, they tell me it's that so stop drinking it. At the point I go back the third time and still hadn't stopped hammering cans of red bull down me then how many times can the doctors keep "guiding" me to stop drinking it for my own good and to put it nicely, stop wasting their time?

I'm not saying "Oh they are fat and they have been in a car crash so we are going to leave them by the road to die". I mean consistent piss takers who are at the doctors week in, week out when it could quite easily be prevented or helped massively with some basics of "Stop smoking", "stop eating shit and sitting on your arse" etc etc.

 

[xcraigx]

I'm not saying "Oh they are fat and they have been in a car crash so we are going to leave them by the road to die". I mean consistent piss takers who are at the doctors week in, week out when it could quite easily be prevented or helped massively with some basics of "Stop smoking", "stop eating shit and sitting on your arse" etc etc.

I've got a brother in law, he must be at least 30 stone. He doesn't want to work and spends his days sat in front of the TV eating. I dread to think of the amount of money thr NHS has spent trying to help him when he has no intention of stopping.

I've also got another two brother in laws who every week without fail have to go and see the doctors. If they have nothing wrong with them they make something up, it's like they are having a competition to see who can be the most 'ill'. One of them has gone down there today because he has thrust. He could have got a tablet from boots or something for a few quid but no, he can get it free on the NHS so he will take up an appointment slot that could have been used to see an actual sick person just so he can save a couple of quid. Bloody tramp.

My grandmother went to the doctors around 12 months back and was told he needed paracetamol. She said she could get that from anywhere for a few pence so not to worry, but the doctors wouldn't take no for an answer and gave her 1000 tablets. She had a huge carrier bag full of the stuff.

 

[richnrg]

are you sure he's got 'thrust' ?

 

[Nick]

are you sure he's got 'thrust' ?

Maybe he walks about like this? Or has a Jet car.

 

[rob9872]

My grandmother went to the doctors around 12 months back and was told he needed paracetamol. She said she could get that from anywhere for a few pence so not to worry, but the doctors wouldn't take no for an answer and gave her 1000 tablets. She had a huge carrier bag full of the stuff.

This is part of the problem. I worked for the NHS in the early days of GP Fundholding. I don't know if the rules have changed, but they were paid a fixed fee for patients on their list, appointments carried out and the real cash cow of writing prescriptions. The following year's budget was based on the previous 12 months. As I say it was approx 20 years ago, so I don't know if rules have changed, but the money that was wasted was often within the network to greedy GP's who had fund-holder managers and were run like a private business. The amount of internal waste would make most of the numbers that are presented here appear very small.

 

[skybluegod]

Dont be daft, we are in the midst of an always on, always contactable technology, this is having an effect on more and more people, not just youngsters, but people with smart phones answering work emails etc. They are not weaker, they are just stimulated in a different fashion to when I was a kid. EG, I used to ride my BMX on the track by the Morris Common, I soon realised that if I fell off it hurt, but also got a thrill if I achieved a jump etc, but the crucial bit is I learned of risk / reward while also burning off calories / excess hormones.

Today's kid, they fail in an electronic world (IE playing a computer game) it doesn't hurt, they complete a game etc they still have the thrill and exhilaration but are not burning off calories or excess hormones. Just because its different to how previous generations grew up, doesn't make them weaker.

Our senses now are constantly battered, we can watch what we want, when we want, how we want. Kids growing up are usually the early adopters of new technology and are probably more plugged in to the way of todays world therefore fel the effects of this more than an adult, who can obtain a release in a different way, they dont have the emotional intelligence to deal with the world, are full of hormones therefore more susceptible to stimuli, hence the ever increasing metal health issues we are seeing, also with a growing acceptance of this illness people are now more likely to talk, and to recognise it. Another thing to consider is the role of previous generations in shaping the current youth.

Don’t be daft? I speak from personal experience? I have suffered anxiety, I have had a girlfriend who has had eating disorders, and anxiety in an extreme case. Also a lot of my friends have suffered with depression, and so have a lot of personal experience. It’s not daft it’s an opinion.

I personally thought I had a weak mindset- I let things get to me which really didn’t matter, and that is a common thing for my generation ( i am only 19 going 20). Letting others peoples opinions effect us more, than ever before, also letting experiences, like exams effect us more than ever. yes technology plays a part, but it’s also a choice it’s not like you have to watch tv or play video games or text constantly. Me getting off my phone, and getting outdoors more and exercising, helped me massively. Also I had the will to want to get over my anxiety.
A lot of people I know don’t want to do it for themselves, I know some people like it because of the attention they get from it, and I don’t mean from peers, I mean time with people to talk.

My generation don’t know how to switch off from technology yes I agree, but that is out of choice. It is a weakness, not being able to break such a habit in case you miss something on Instagram or Facebook, like it’s the end of the world. Imo the current generation are mentally weak, because they are zoned out into this virtual reality, and if something does happen it’s not physical. But when something happens in real life, they don’t have any real life experience or as much as previous generations to deal with it

 

[Ashdown]

Dont be daft, we are in the midst of an always on, always contactable technology, this is having an effect on more and more people, not just youngsters, but people with smart phones answering work emails etc. They are not weaker, they are just stimulated in a different fashion to when I was a kid. EG, I used to ride my BMX on the track by the Morris Common, I soon realised that if I fell off it hurt, but also got a thrill if I achieved a jump etc, but the crucial bit is I learned of risk / reward while also burning off calories / excess hormones.

Today's kid, they fail in an electronic world (IE playing a computer game) it doesn't hurt, they complete a game etc they still have the thrill and exhilaration but are not burning off calories or excess hormones. Just because its different to how previous generations grew up, doesn't make them weaker.

Our senses now are constantly battered, we can watch what we want, when we want, how we want. Kids growing up are usually the early adopters of new technology and are probably more plugged in to the way of todays world therefore fel the effects of this more than an adult, who can obtain a release in a different way, they dont have the emotional intelligence to deal with the world, are full of hormones therefore more susceptible to stimuli, hence the ever increasing metal health issues we are seeing, also with a growing acceptance of this illness people are now more likely to talk, and to recognise it. Another thing to consider is the role of previous generations in shaping the current youth.

Did we really burn off 'hormones' playing outside all the time ?? C'mon we didn't have 'Pornhub' though did we ?

 

[Nick]

Did we really burn off 'hormones' playing outside all the time ?? C'mon we didn't have 'Pornhub' though did we ?

No we had fingering and lynx Africa. Topless darts on live tv was as much filth as you were getting.

 

[Ashdown]

No we had fingering and lynx Africa. Topless darts on live tv was as much filth as you were getting.

I've still got the second one .

 

[fernandopartridge]

The easy get out to avoid the wrath of the “outraged of Coventry” would be to say that I did only mean health tourism … but that was only part of the reason. Also a little disappointing haul, I was trying to trip him up a bit and expected the stock response surrounding the NHS relying on overseas workers within the NHS, I purposely threw in the freeloaders comments as that also often provokes a reaction. I would add that many of those workers come from outside the EU, but not trying to turn this thread into another Brexit debate.

Anyway … the points with foreign cost to the NHS are (imo) varied. Health tourism is one, but also the additional and unsustainable costs of sending NHS funding abroad. My understanding is that if an EU member who is a UK citizen is treated abroad (even back in their original country) then they are entitled to claim from the NHS for the cost of that treatment, how can that be right? I also read that we pay 70 times the cost to the rest of the EU for healthcare of UK/EU citizens outside the UK (costing the NHS close to £1bn per year), that also shouldn’t be happening – we pay Poland 4 times the value that we receive back and yet 500,000+ poles reside in the UK and only a fraction of UK citizens moving in the opposite direction. Finally, yes we do rely on overseas help within the NHS and a valid reason for keeping immigration, particularly those with skills that we are lacking in the UK, but also if immigration wasn’t so high, then we wouldn’t need such a resource to look after them too.

In short my original point is that if in the future in part due to excess weight I had something like a heart attack, then having contributed all my working life, I would expect to be treated without any complaint. For some reason it seems that weight is something that is acceptable to discriminate against.

We have a reciprocal arrangement with other public health services to fund EU citizens' healthcare. Though I genuinely don't think we actual bother trying to reclaim any cash.

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[Sick Boy]

It's a dangerous way to go though is t it;

Do you treat drivers in road traffic accidents who've been speeding, using mobiles, not wearing seat belts

Do you treat any addicts of any description at all

Do you ask bowel cancer patients what they've ate and when you find bacon sandwiches every day tell them to go home

Got to agree with you on this. I go to the gym and lift weights 4 or 5 times a week and go boxing twice a week and consider myself to be in decent health. However, my sister would be classified as obese and the thought of her being refused treatment due to this is quite simply wrong.

Yes, has made bad lifestyle choices but has worked very hard to try and turn it around but in the end she is going to be able to as she has a very unhealthy relationship with food that is most likely linked to comfort and perhaps mental health.

As a society all we can do is educate and encourage the right choices, but we should never turn those in need down for treatment or care.

 

[Captain Dart]

We have a reciprocal arrangement with other public health services to fund EU citizens' healthcare. Though I genuinely don't think we actual bother trying to reclaim any cash.

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It is foolish to try and charge on a case by case basis, the costs should be agreed depending on the number and typical age profile of citizens from the reciprocating country whop are resident or visiting. Just use statistics to establish the likely demand and charge a fair price.

 

[Ian1779]

What about this as an idea.

Reduce the amount of child benefit given for each child by an amount, use the money to feed all children in both primary and secondary school (breakfast/snack/lunch). Provide healthy, freshly prepared food that kids get into the habit of eating regularly.

I appreciate that would be a huge culture shift and a lot of investment and logistics to set up - but surely a more cost effective way to address the problem overall than spending it at the other end once the damage is done.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

my kids school is part of a non-profit schools catering provider.....its also promotes & supports gardening & cookery classes etc........not sure how widespread similar schemes are but they should roll it out across all regions IMO....

Home | Food for Thought



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[clint van damme]

We have a reciprocal arrangement with other public health services to fund EU citizens' healthcare. Though I genuinely don't think we actual bother trying to reclaim any cash.

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read an article somewhere which said we only claim a small percentage of what we are actually due.

 

[Houchens Head]

My missus is watching something on TV at the moment and the report said that Brits eat a takeaway meal on average, three times a week! And you can bet it will be pizzas, burgers and other crap!

 

[fernandopartridge]

What about this as an idea.

Reduce the amount of child benefit given for each child by an amount, use the money to feed all children in both primary and secondary school (breakfast/snack/lunch). Provide healthy, freshly prepared food that kids get into the habit of eating regularly.

I appreciate that would be a huge culture shift and a lot of investment and logistics to set up - but surely a more cost effective way to address the problem overall than spending it at the other end once the damage is done.

I like the idea in some respects, but it's too nanny state. Another area where parents seem to be absolved of any responsibility and it is passed to the state.

We'd be better off educating parents to be about how to maintain their child's health both pre birth and at key points (i.e. weaning and then starting school).

 

[skybluegod]

What about this as an idea.

Reduce the amount of child benefit given for each child by an amount, use the money to feed all children in both primary and secondary school (breakfast/snack/lunch). Provide healthy, freshly prepared food that kids get into the habit of eating regularly.

I appreciate that would be a huge culture shift and a lot of investment and logistics to set up - but surely a more cost effective way to address the problem overall than spending it at the other end once the damage is done.

Good idea in principle to be fair, but as I say my mum is a head teacher and the chocolate ban went down badly I do wonder how well telling parents that the school will feed their child goes down.
She has said to me that she has had parents moaning and having a go, because she is telling the parents what the kids can have in their lunch box.
The stats are that, only 1 in 40 packed lunches meet a healthy balanced diet requirement.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

My missus is watching something on TV at the moment and the report said that Brits eat a takeaway meal on average, three times a week! And you can bet it will be pizzas, burgers and other crap!

We have a takeaway about 3 times a year!

 

[Nick]

Good idea in principle to be fair, but as I say my mum is a head teacher and the chocolate ban went down badly I do wonder how well telling parents that the school will feed their child goes down.
She has said to me that she has had parents moaning and having a go, because she is telling the parents what the kids can have in their lunch box.
The stats are that, only 1 in 40 packed lunches meet a healthy balanced diet requirement.

That's parents being massive, lazy bellends. It isn't hard, chuck them an apple or a fruit bar in instead. If their kid refuses to eat healthy things, they need to have a word with themselves.

 

[skybluegod]

That's parents being massive, lazy bellends. It isn't hard, chuck them an apple or a fruit bar in instead. If their kid refuses to eat healthy things, they need to have a word with themselves.

I agree, it’s not hard, but as you say it’s easier to buy junk food and take aways than cook at home, so they get used to bad food at home, and then expect it at school as well.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

I think that one problem is that young girls/women don't know how to cook. Cookery lessons should be mandatory at schools.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think that one problem is that young girls/women don't know how to cook. Cookery lessons should be mandatory at schools.

Cookery is on the curriculum, but it it's anything like my school, the focus is on baking cakes rather than thinking about genuine home economics (as in constructing meals and buying food). It needs a complete rethink. Christ knows why ready meals are so popular, they're mostly rank and dreadful value for money (even the posh M&S ones are poor value for money).

 

[Nick]

Cookery is on the curriculum, but it it's anything like my school, the focus is on baking cakes rather than thinking about genuine home economics (as in constructing meals and buying food). It needs a complete rethink. Christ knows why ready meals are so popular, they're mostly rank and dreadful value for money (even the posh M&S ones are poor value for money).

Yeah when I was at school it was all baking a cake, pastry etc etc. Never how to cook a healthy meal.

It's not really an excuse for a parent not to be able to cook a decent meal for their kid though. You boil some veg, cook some meat in the oven or boil some pasta etc. It doesn't have to be a Michelin star type meal.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yeah when I was at school it was all baking a cake, pastry etc etc. Never how to cook a healthy meal.

It's not really an excuse for a parent not to be able to cook a decent meal for their kid though. You boil some veg, cook some meat in the oven or boil some pasta etc. It doesn't have to be a Michelin star type meal.

You say that, but this is a multi generational thing now Nick, generations who were fed crap passing it on again and again

 

[Nick]

You say that, but this is a multi generational thing now Nick, generations who were fed crap passing it on again and again

Yep

Always annoys me when kids are picky eaters and refuse to eat certain things because they just eat chocolate spread sandwiches and stuff like that.

I do think there is a lot more education nowadays though, for example if you walk into Tesco they have those recipe cards "mums special sweet potato pie" etc where it basically says "buy this, this and this and do this, this and this" and job done.

It's just if people are open to cooking a Lasagne with mince / veg / pasta sheets etc rather than a microwave one. etc

 

[skybluedan]

I've got an enemy over here in jersey and basically she is that fat she needs a mobility scooter and the bitch ran over my foot
See I'm sorry to say this but these fatties should be helped not given stuff to get about on not really doing them favours is it I'm not talking tying meat to there arse and let the dogs chase them but just something to benifit and besides I hate that fat cow on the scooter so help every one but her

 

[skybluedan]

Suppose one good thing is when the zombies come they ain't gonna get me first

 

[Johnnythespider]

I think that one problem is that young girls/women don't know how to cook. Cookery lessons should be mandatory at schools.

What about boys and men ? Most women now work full time, this is different to when I was growing up, most women stayed at home and cooked the evening meal for the family. Times have changed.

 

[Captain Dart]

What about this as an idea.

Reduce the amount of child benefit given for each child by an amount, use the money to feed all children in both primary and secondary school (breakfast/snack/lunch). Provide healthy, freshly prepared food that kids get into the habit of eating regularly.

I appreciate that would be a huge culture shift and a lot of investment and logistics to set up - but surely a more cost effective way to address the problem overall than spending it at the other end once the damage is done.

Not all children will eat school meals.

 

[Captain Dart]

We have a takeaway about 3 times a year!

I just had one! I probably average one a month.

 

[skybluegod]

Not all children will eat school meals.

That’s why he said to reduce child benefit tbf? So parents get less money to buy food for them and instead they have to eat what the school provide.

However you are right, think only 12 people across whole of mums primary school eat school meals, rest bring their own.

 

[Ian1779]

That’s why he said to reduce child benefit tbf? So parents get less money to buy food for them and instead they have to eat what the school provide.

However you are right, think only 12 people across whole of mums primary school eat school meals, rest bring their own.

Some may be down to the hassle of organising it. From my own experience of trying to use the online system, and really a limited choice of food mainly down to the facilities to deliver this properly not being in place. The cost as well (which is in excess of £2 a day for just a lunch after Year 2) is a barrier as you could fill a pack lunch easily for a fraction of the price. A choice between a pack of nine penguins or 4 apples for a quid tells it's own story.

I get the idea of not wanting to 'nanny state' it - but there is a undeniable link between good progress at school and being adequately fed and watered at the beginning of the day.

I see kids every day that appear to be either hyper or lethargic, and vast majority when I speak to them have either eaten nothing, or alternatively they decided that a bag of Dorito's and a 29p energy drink is the way to fuel the body and mind for the day. At least if it is provided we can have some assurances that they are setting themselves up adequately for a day of learning.

 

[Sick Boy]

I think that one problem is that young girls/women don't know how to cook. Cookery lessons should be mandatory at schools.

I'm probably with one of the only Italian women who can't cook, luckily I got a nvq 3 in chefing and worked in kitchens back in the day going through college and a bit later university.

Most men can't cook either though, to be fair.