City of Culture Bid (8 Viewers)

[Nick]

Nothing, but it has destroyed the relationship with the council and therefore tainted the history of the club and of the city. It is not even a Coventry owned club anymore and the people pushing the JR have nothing to do with the pre takeover history of the club. If you want to marginalise the club, it’s dead easy, you piss off the council of the city whose name you bear. And if you really want to do a good job, you divide and/ or smash the fan base. And if that is not enough you take the club to another city. And if that doesn’t work you...... er, I can’t think of any better ways to marginalise the club.. Wasps don’t come into the equation. We are responsible for our relationship with the City. Yes, the council are not a great help, but if you want to get on in Coventry, you need them on board.

You say it isnt a Coventry owned club while you are replying to people having an issue with Wasps being featured?

 

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[stupot07]

Do you think that a good relationship would help when dealing with the council? Would you think that the council would be more likely to be proud of CCFC if they were not being dragged through the courts by their owners? Or do you think that it is purely coincidental that CCFC has no mention? Can I sell you my second hand car?

Looking at the website it looks as though it's a partnership bid with Cov Uni and Warwick Uni, I would like to think that the bid would do everything it could to win the city of culture and that means publicising ccfc and other local teams for the benefit of the bid, despite their issue with our London based owners. After all, was took 42k to Wembley not long ago and won some silverware which lifted the mood of the city. In life you have to often work with people you don't like or don't get on with the common good. This IMO is one of those times.

Oh and I don't need a car thanks.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[letsallsingtogether]

All the local sports should be covered.
To show the diversity and participation within the City.
We have lots of football teams more rugby teams then most Cities, then theres netball, icehockey, a top running and cycling team and even a top swimming club.
We even have a Kabaddi tournament every year.

 

[Nick]

Do you think that a good relationship would help when dealing with the council? Would you think that the council would be more likely to be proud of CCFC if they were not being dragged through the courts by their owners? Or do you think that it is purely coincidental that CCFC has no mention? Can I sell you my second hand car?

This isn't about selling a car though is it? Unless of course you are selling places in Coventry's history and culture to the highest bidder rather than to people / places / things where it has just happened.

 

[Ian1779]

I’ve not seen it mate.

Not sure what it’s got to do with the sponsorship issue.

We are an almost non league team that may not even be in the city in 2021, who are antagonistic to the people running the bid. While it’s be nice if we featured prominently, it’s hardly surprising we aren’t.

I once taught a kid who was a complete shit, swore, threw things, hit other kids, tore up work, you name it. He kept getting put in isolation and excluded and the like. The parents tried to sue the school claiming he wasn’t being given his right to education.

You remind me of those parents. You don’t get to be a c**t then ask why you aren’t invited to the birthday party.

I was never talking about sponsorship. My point was that a city of culture bid that makes no reference to one of the few things that people might know the city for, and a huge piece of the city's history, and I find it staggering that in a promotional video that a 130 year old football club doesn't even get a mention.

How exactly is CCFC antagonistic to the bid?

 

[martcov]

You say it isnt a Coventry owned club while you are replying to people having an issue with Wasps being featured?

Pointing out that Wasps aren’t the only ones from outside who are involved. My issue is not with Wasps being involved. We know how that happened. My issue is that we are not involved. We should be, but the owners are not interested in Coventry or Coventry‘s bid. It would probably be different if we were owned by Coventrians. We know TF is interested to a point. As you well know from what I told you. But there is no way he could go as high profile as Wasps financially or by working together with the council in the present situation. Even if he wanted to - both because of Joy & Co, or because the council wouldn’t wear it. Wasps have showed willing to be involved in the bid through the Ricoh from the beginning of this bid and have paid decent money. The city are not going to turn that down, so it is not about having an issue. It would be an issue if CCFC had done the same and didn’t get a mention, but they didn’t. So, yes I am saddened, but that is where we are as they say. And no. It is not morally right, but I could see that happening a year ago - as I mentioned in my pms which you saw.

 

[martcov]

This isn't about selling a car though is it? Unless of course you are selling places in Coventry's history and culture to the highest bidder rather than to people / places / things where it has just happened.

I didn’t mention money in my points apart from my sarcasm. I mentioned relationships and court cases.

 

[Nick]

Pointing out that Wasps aren’t the only ones from outside who are involved. My issue is not with Wasps being involved. We know how that happened. My issue is that we are not involved. We should be, but the owners are not interested in Coventry or Coventry‘s bid. It would probably be different if we were owned by Coventrians. We know TF is interested to a point. As you well know from what I told you. But there is no way he could go as high profile as Wasps financially or by working together with the council in the present situation. Even if he wanted to - both because of Joy & Co, or because the council wouldn’t wear it. Wasps have showed willing to be involved in the bid through the Ricoh from the beginning of this bid and have paid decent money. The city are not going to turn that down, so it is not about having an issue. It would be an issue if CCFC had done the same and didn’t get a mention, but they didn’t. So, yes I am saddened, but that is where we are as they say. And no. It is not morally right, but I could see that happening a year ago - as I mentioned in my pms which you saw.

The thing is though.. You are now talking about having to outbid for a place in our "culture" with a team that shipped in from London. Where does it end? Should we sack off the family run butchers that people have used for years from being part of Coventry because Morrisons have a better advertising budget? Do we ignore the Godiva statue because a new arty fella has made a sculpture and wants to hand over some cash for exposure?

Are the council controlling who is part of the bid? From what I have seen there is a charity running it.

In fairness, the PMs you sent to me were about a partnership / event with Kiel rather than the city of culture bid. It was a great idea and I fully agreed with you about it.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

SISU being wankers shouldn't alter a thing. Using that reasoning let's the council do what they want. That shouldn't be allowed.

I acknowledge you making the effort towards the club in getting them involved. I also appreciate that not actively being part of the bid might mean your not centre stage, but to be totally excluded is wrong. Plain wrong.

 

[Nick]

I didn’t mention money in my points apart from my sarcasm. I mentioned relationships and court cases.

Yes, are Coventry City of Culture Trust being taken to court?

 

[martcov]

Yes, are Coventry City of Culture Trust being taken to court?

No, but the people who ultimately have the most say are.

 

[Nick]

No, but the people who ultimately have the most say are.

Strange, so the council are telling a different charity to ignore CCFC because of court cases? There's a pattern emerging isn't there.

 

[Covkid1968#]

They have no chance they are up against stoke on Trent it's like battle of the dumps

FFS....can't even refer to the City as "We". This Communication of ours needs positive people not disrespectful wankers.

 

[ccfcway]

if we are going to want all Coventry based activities that involves 6000 every two weeks in the bid, I assume weatherspoons will be right up there

 

[ccfcway]

should this sit in the politics section of the forum ?

 

[martcov]

The thing is though.. You are now talking about having to outbid for a place in our "culture" with a team that shipped in from London. Where does it end? Should we sack off the family run butchers that people have used for years from being part of Coventry because Morrisons have a better advertising budget? Do we ignore the Godiva statue because a new arty fella has made a sculpture and wants to hand over some cash for exposure?

Are the council controlling who is part of the bid? From what I have seen there is a charity running it.

In fairness, the PMs you sent to me were about a partnership / event with Kiel rather than the city of culture bid. It was a great idea and I fully agreed with you about it.

The thought behind my interest was to get something positive going... the council had said they wanted to be more international. I thought a visit as part of the 70 years city friendship would get attention. Politically Kiel were up for it and it would be difficult not for our council not acknowledge the input. They wanted to have a reception for the team in the kiel town hall and the game would have been against the newly promoted Holstein Kiel. In my correspondence and in my talks, I did mention Wasps getting more publicity through this bid, and that I knew CCFC didn’t have the money, but they could have shown their value by representation. I had sponsors lined up to cover part of the costs. E.g. the shirts worn by Port Vale being used to attract attention to Stoke‘s bid. I thought media reports of the city football team representing the City of Reconciliation abroad may helped a little in improving relationships and showing that we can be grown up even in a dispute. Every little helps.

 

[Nick]

The thought behind my interest was to get something positive going... the council had said they wanted to be more international. I thought a visit as part of the 70 years city friendship would get attention. Politically Kiel were up for it and it would be difficult not for our council not acknowledge the input. They wanted to have a reception for the team in the kiel town hall and the game would have been against the newly promoted Holstein Kiel. In my correspondence and in my talks, I did mention Wasps getting more publicity through this bid, and that I knew CCFC didn’t have the money, but they could have shown their value by representation. I had sponsors lined up to cover part of the costs. E.g. the shirts worn by Port Vale being used to attract attention to Stoke‘s bid. I thought media reports of the city football team representing the City of Reconciliation abroad may helped a little in improving relationships and showing that we can be grown up even in a dispute. Every little helps.

Yes but in fairness that isn't / wasn't the city of culture bid. It was still a great idea though and I still agree with you about it.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I've answered it countless times over the thread, but just for you. Culture isn't actively taking part in a culture bid. So it's fucking irrelevant if CCFC have actively taken part or not. As I've said Lady Godiva hasn't actively taken part in the bid but she's included.

So you don't know.

I never once queried if Ccfc was part of Coventry culture and heritage. Nor did I ever query whether Ccfc should have been included in the bid papers and PR. Both points are obvious yes Ccfc are and yes Ccfc should have been.

My question remains have Ccfc been involved in the bid process? (Which has nothing to do with the meaning of "culture" or longevity of heritage or whether lady Godiva needs to ride the streets again)

 

[Nick]

My question remains have Ccfc been involved in the bid process? (Which has nothing to do with the meaning of "culture" or longevity of heritage or whether lady Godiva needs to ride the streets again)

In what way? Backing it / promoting it or sending resources to literally help with it?

Just to try and figure out what you are getting at

 

[martcov]

Yes but in fairness that isn't / wasn't the city of culture bid. It was still a great idea though and I still agree with you about it.

No, but..... the argument to CCFC was that they should do something. The council told my group that they needed to do more things internationally. They said that would help with the bid. They would welcome any ideas from the Kiel side. I told City that Wasps were going to be in the limelight because of their part in the bid and that we should be seen to be doing something which may help the City‘s international image and therefore the bid. Whatever happened it would have helped relationships by bringing them into some of contact with each other. So, not directly with the bid, but within the scope of pushing the city of Reconciliation. Wasps raising their profile above city‘s with the bid participation was a motivating factor for me. I wanted a good news story as a small counterbalance. Maybe I was naive.

 

[ccfcway]

way I see it is its pretty simple.

The judging panel announce the winner will be decided in court.

We'll be all over it then

 

[martcov]

way I see it is its pretty simple.

The judging panel announce the winner will be decided in court.

We'll be all over it then

Wait for the appeal of the appeal of the bid decision before you start counting your chickens... I think that will be in 2025.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

FFS....can't even refer to the City as "We". This Communication of ours needs positive people not disrespectful wankers.

I don’t live in Coventry so it would be wrong of me to put we unless it’s coventry and Nuneaton bidding

 

[Nick]

No, but..... the argument to CCFC was that they should do something. The council told my group that they needed to do more things internationally. They said that would help with the bid. They would welcome any ideas from the Kiel side. I told City that Wasps were going to be in the limelight because of their part in the bid and that we should be seen to be doing something which may help the City‘s international image and therefore the bid. Whatever happened it would have helped relationships by bringing them into some of contact with each other. So, not directly with the bid, but within the scope of pushing the city of Reconciliation. Wasps raising their profile above city‘s with the bid participation was a motivating factor for me. I wanted a good news story as a small counterbalance. Maybe I was naive.

Yes but what you are saying and seemingly justifying is that somebody would take precedence over the city's culture, history etc etc because they have a bigger cheque book.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Yes but what you are saying and seemingly justifying is that somebody would take precedence over the city's culture, history etc etc because they have a bigger cheque book.

Not just bigger they actually have one ours is locked away in Sisu Towers gathering dust

 

[martcov]

Yes but what you are saying and seemingly justifying is that somebody would take precedence over the city's culture, history etc etc because they have a bigger cheque book.

No, I am saying is that is what was on the cards. Not just because of the cheque book, although that undoubtedly helped.

My opinion is not that it is Wasps fault. They did what they had to. We could have done less financially, but more with our history. One reason we didn’t is because we are not owned by Coventrians, but have been put in a siding for the time being by a hedge fund. The ultimate owners are not emotionally involved. TF was in favour of my thing as long as it didn’t cost much. He is on the ground- or at least at most games. He is not so distant. Has at least a bit of connection to Coventry. Unfortunately the relationship is broken and Tim can hardly start being best mates with CCC whilst his bosses are appealing yet again.

How could we make a pitch in these circumstances? We have loads to offer, but in reality, because of the situation we cannot offer it. Wasps are taking precedence by default.

I think too many on here are concerned about Wasps and their success. I think we should think about CCFC and forget Wasps. I only know what’s going on with Wasps because of this forum. Wasps become relevant when we talking about the stadium, but we are getting annoyed about other things. Fxxk em.

I want to know about the stadium. I wish we were more involved in this bid. I think we are involved, but I don’t know in which way.

 

[oldskyblue58]

In what way? Backing it / promoting it or sending resources to literally help with it?

Just to try and figure out what you are getting at

Any or all of the above Nick.

If successful this could be one of the best things to happen to Coventry for some time and surely there must be ways ccfc could benefit rather than looking in from the outside.There are opportunities in various ways that could benefit the club.

Not really getting at anything, no agenda to get at the club, it was a simple question have Ccfc been involved in the bid process if so how. I haven't been following the bid much and just wondered.

 

[Nick]

No, I am saying is that is what was on the cards. Not just because of the cheque book, although that undoubtedly helped.

My opinion is not that it is Wasps fault. They did what they had to. We could have done less financially, but more with our history. One reason we didn’t is because we are not owned by Coventrians, but have been put in a siding for the time being by a hedge fund. The ultimate owners are not emotionally involved. TF was in favour of my thing as long as it didn’t cost much. He is on the ground- or at least at most games. He is not so distant. Has at least a bit of connection to Coventry. Unfortunately the relationship is broken and Tim can hardly start being best mates with CCC whilst his bosses are appealing yet again.

How could we make a pitch in these circumstances? We have loads to offer, but in reality, because of the situation we cannot offer it. Wasps are taking precedence by default.

I think too many on here are concerned about Wasps and their success. I think we should think about CCFC and forget Wasps. I only know what’s going on with Wasps because of this forum. Wasps become relevant when we talking about the stadium, but we are getting annoyed about other things. Fxxk em.

I want to know about the stadium. I wish we were more involved in this bid. I think we are involved, but I don’t know in which way.

Yes but the thread was pointing out how Wasps are featured but nothing about CCFC (and later other Coventry teams)

You then say about CCFC not being Coventry owned, you go on about Fisher not having Coventry links etc. CCFC, Cov Rugby etc have over a hundred years of history, Wasps have a handful, aren't owned by Coventry people either with no links to Coventry.

What exactly is all of that to do with it? Why would things / places in Coventry have to "pitch" to be part of the culture? That's not how it works is it?

As said, is Lady Godiva doing a powerpoint presentation on why she should get a mention?

Why does Fisher need to be best buddys with the council with any of this? It isn't the council running it, it's an independent charity.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

but surely culture and heritage is something that "just happens",

*isn't* godammit!

tbf there's a place for new and old. The story of Coventry being a multicultural fusion contributes *a lot* to its identity. There are concerns, however, that in an attempt to present itself as fresh and vibrant, they miss out elements of its heritage which are taken for granted, neglected, and left to whither. I'm not talking CCFC here either, but there are certain areas that may be a little frozen out (all from my perception, of course).

Now this is a failing of Coventry over its recent history. Culture does, like it or not, need depth. It's a link to the past, a basis for nostalgia and roots. Even diaspora end up positioned in some way in relation to that embedded nature of what is already there. To lose that, to forget about that permanence of place, that goes to make culture more than transient, that goes to make a specific identity as opposed to some kind of pastiche is... dangerous in my view.

 

[martcov]

Yes but the thread was pointing out how Wasps are featured but nothing about CCFC (and later other Coventry teams)

You then say about CCFC not being Coventry owned, you go on about Fisher not having Coventry links etc. CCFC, Cov Rugby etc have over a hundred years of history, Wasps have a handful, aren't owned by Coventry people either with no links to Coventry.

What exactly is all of that to do with it? Why would things / places in Coventry have to "pitch" to be part of the culture? That's not how it works is it?

As said, is Lady Godiva doing a powerpoint presentation on why she should get a mention?

Why does Fisher need to be best buddys with the council with any of this? It isn't the council running it, it's an independent charity.

Wasps have invested more and control the Ricoh. We are doing something - or happy to be backing it. But, noone knows what.

Fisher is in my opinion more linked than, say , Joy or Dermot, or the Wasps people. He has an interest in the club and follows it. Which is what I said. I think Coventry people would have pushed more to have CCFC presented to whoever is controlling the bid.

We would have had a higher profile if the ultimate owners were from Coventry and had not parked us in a siding.

I would have thought that you have to "pitch" your culture in some form so that you could be included. At least to say why you should be in the bid.

Lady Godiva is the highest profile person connected with Coventry by virtue of her good deeds, legend and 900 years of being there. I don't think she needs to do a powerpoint.

He doesn't need to be best buddies, but a good relationship with the city would help and the council are - I assume somewhere involved.

Anyway, as I said, it saddens me that Wasps have a higher profile because of this, but that is where we have landed ourselves. 20 ( or 21 ) years ago we had a run of 17 games unbeaten in the Premiership and were owned by local businessmen. We had a great relationship with the council, the fans and everyone else as far I recall. There were plans for a 40000 state of the art stadium. There would not have been the slightest discussion about this bid. CCFC would have been all over it. But, it's now all Wasps fault. Ok, if you want to believe that, fair enough. I think there are other factors involved.

 

[Nick]

Wasps have invested more and control the Ricoh. We are doing something - or happy to be backing it. But, noone knows what.

Fisher is in my opinion more linked than, say , Joy or Dermot, or the Wasps people. He has an interest in the club and follows it. Which is what I said. I think Coventry people would have pushed more to have CCFC presented to whoever is controlling the bid.

We would have had a higher profile if the ultimate owners were from Coventry and had not parked us in a siding.

I would have thought that you have to "pitch" your culture in some form so that you could be included. At least to say why you should be in the bid.

Lady Godiva is the highest profile person connected with Coventry by virtue of her good deeds, legend and 900 years of being there. I don't think she needs to do a powerpoint.

He doesn't need to be best buddies, but a good relationship with the city would help and the council are - I assume somewhere involved.

Anyway, as I said, it saddens me that Wasps have a higher profile because of this, but that is where we have landed ourselves. 20 ( or 21 ) years ago we had a run of 17 games unbeaten in the Premiership and were owned by local businessmen. We had a great relationship with the council, the fans and everyone else as far I recall. There were plans for a 40000 state of the art stadium. There would not have been the slightest discussion about this bid. CCFC would have been all over it. But, it's now all Wasps fault. Ok, if you want to believe that, fair enough. I think there are other factors involved.

It's starting to look a bit like desperation, nobody has actually said it's all wasps fault have they? You are going on about a lot of things that are completely irrelevant.

Why doesn't godiva need to do a pitch? Surely the past doesn't really matter going on but what you keep saying?

At what point are things in there as standard like godiva, and where does it become to the highest bidder?

You seem desperate to try and get certain points across, owners from Coventry in every post. Where are the wasps and jlr owners from?

You keep trying to get it into a wasps buying the ricoh discussion, nobody is actually talking about that.

It's very strange.

 

[martcov]

*isn't* godammit!

tbf there's a place for new and old. The story of Coventry being a multicultural fusion contributes *a lot* to its identity. There are concerns, however, that in an attempt to present itself as fresh and vibrant, they miss out elements of its heritage which are taken for granted, neglected, and left to whither. I'm not talking CCFC here either, but there are certain areas that may be a little frozen out (all from my perception, of course).

Now this is a failing of Coventry over its recent history. Culture does, like it or not, need depth. It's a link to the past, a basis for nostalgia and roots. Even diaspora end up positioned in some way in relation to that embedded nature of what is already there. To lose that, to forget about that permanence of place, that goes to make culture more than transient, that goes to make a specific identity as opposed to some kind of pastiche is... dangerous in my view.

My family were weavers, watchmakers, carworkers and although I am in another country my background stays with me. That includes following city in my youth. It is part of my culture and my "heritage". My daughter is brought in a different country, but I try to get her over as often as I can and sent her on a school year in England so that, although she is here, she knows a bit of the past.

 

[martcov]

It's starting to look a bit like desperation, nobody has actually said it's all wasps fault have they? You are going on about a lot of things that are completely irrelevant.

As I said, we are talking too much about Wasps. You are annoyed, I'm saying that is the way it is. It annoys me, but I accept is as it is and am more interested in other things, such as the stadium. What's desparation? You know my opinion. We, CCFC, are largely to blame for our own demise. The bid gives Wasps a higher profile than us. Wasps are opportunists, but we created the opening for them. Anyway I'm going to bed. I have my opinion and it's not going to change.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I would have thought that you have to "pitch" your culture in some form so that you could be included.

Not particularly.

My family were weavers, watchmakers, carworkers and although I am in another country my background stays with me. That includes following city in my youth. It is part of my culture and my "heritage". My daughter is brought in a different country, but I try to get her over as often as I can and sent her on a school year in England so that, although she is here, she knows a bit of the past.

With the caveat this is just my view...

They've got a strategy to win the bid, and this means bigging some things up instead of others. Now personally I think this is dangerous, and even if they win there's an argument to be said the money it brings in should be tempered by also looking at what money is lost by neglecting certain features. It's a bit like building, say, the RIcoh. Sure, it brings in business for the surrounding area and boosts that economy, but is it all new business, or just taken from somewhere else?

Now, don't get me wrong, I hope Coventry win. But even if we do, I fear certain elements of its cultural preservation will continue to slide and decline... and maybe people won't even notice until it's too late. It'd have been nice if they gave the attention to certain other deserving (IMHO) areas too.

 

[Nick]

Not particularly.

With the caveat this is just my view...

They've got a strategy to win the bid, and this means bigging some things up instead of others. Now personally I think this is dangerous, and even if they win there's an argument to be said the money it brings in should be tempered by also looking at what money is lost by neglecting certain features. It's a bit like building, say, the RIcoh. Sure, it brings in business for the surrounding area and boosts that economy, but is it all new business, or just taken from somewhere else?

Now, don't get me wrong, I hope Coventry win. But even if we do, I fear certain elements of its cultural preservation will continue to slide and decline... and maybe people won't even notice until it's too late. It'd have been nice if they gave the attention to certain other deserving (IMHO) areas too.

That's sort of what I meant by culture just happens. Obviously it has people behind it, communities etc.

It's on going, historical, it doesn't appear because of a cheque book.