The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (24 Viewers)

[martcov]

So how did you take what is going on to be about tax when it isn't even mentioned?

Are you not even the slightest worried about the direction that the EU is going in?

I look forward to seeing how
you defend the EU this time.

It is about tax and it could involve transfer payments. Just because the Mail used different words, doesn’t mean that th y are telling the whole story.

 

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[skybluetony176]

So why do you say he shouldn't be suspended while the investigation happens?

There are rules. They have been broken. Why has it taken the EU so long to do something about it?

You will find a reason without Juncker being involved.

So yet again how about the link I have now put up twice? You expect full explanations from me but dodge questions yourself.

I haven’t said he shouldn’t be suspended while an investigation is being undertaken. You haven’t asked me if he should. If you had I probably would have said he should.

What are the rules that have been broken? Can’t say I know too much detail about Luxembourg but I know in Ireland they have basically given a discount to Apple of their normal tax rate for ten years equalling billions. For which the EU are taking Ireland to court for as illegal state aid. What has happened in Luxembourg exactly?

 

[Astute]

It is about tax and it could involve transfer payments. Just because the Mail used different words, doesn’t mean that th y are telling the whole story.

No it isn't. They are taking over the way budgets are spent. This way they have a better way of getting money loaned back from basket cases.

So how about the EU army?

 

[Astute]

I haven’t said he shouldn’t be suspended while an investigation is being undertaken. You haven’t asked me if he should. If you had I probably would have said he should.

What are the rules that have been broken? Can’t say I know too much detail about Luxembourg but I know in Ireland they have basically given a discount to Apple of their normal tax rate for ten years equalling billions. For which the EU are taking Ireland to court for as illegal state aid. What has happened in Luxembourg exactly?

Yes I did. I asked why he shouldn't be suspended while investigations are underway.

The same has happened with Luxembourg but on a much bigger scale. But if you know anything about the EU you will know all about it. I have even mentioned it countless times. They have many more companies registered than they have people living there.

 

[martcov]

So how did you take what is going on to be about tax when it isn't even mentioned?

Are you not even the slightest worried about the direction that the EU is going in?

I look forward to seeing how you defend the EU this time.

Not in the slightest worried about the EU direction. Very worried about the outcome of Brexit on the UK and specifically on UK citizens living and working in the EU.

The banking union is about control of the banks e.g. by a supervisory board. We already have two pillars.. bank supervision and the ECB. The third pillar includes protecting people’s deposits in the case of a run on the banks. It is about increasing the guarantees to savers and standardising them throughout the EU. To do that banks pool resources to lessen risks. Very necessary after what happened in 2008 and in Greece and maybe next in Italy.

An EU defence force is becoming increasingly necessary. NATO is obsolete ... according to Trump. It is also hugely dependent on countries such as the USA. Putin has started moving borders in Europe. Erdogan is becoming increasingly dangerous and is a NATO partner. There has to be serious talks on which way the EU should defend itself in these circumstances. I’m for some form of EU defence force.

And when people are talking about a chancellor of the exchequer for the EU they are obviously talking about taxes. He would be the one coordinating tax levels throughout the EU.

Let’s see how far the EU can progress now that the UK Tories are not putting the oar in.

 

[martcov]

Yes I did. I asked why he shouldn't be suspended while investigations are underway.

The same has happened with Luxembourg but on a much bigger scale. But if you know anything about the EU you will know all about it. I have even mentioned it countless times. They have many more companies registered than they have people living there.

Yes. As far as I am concerned companies should pay tax where they are trading, not where it is cheaper to do so. Germany wants that and so do I. It makes a mockery of tax paying when small businesses like mine end up being chased all over the place for every euro by the German tax man, and multi nationals or millionaires just shuffle the money around and pay far less in percent terms than I do. If we have an EU chancellor, then that may stop some of that.

 

[martcov]

I don’t want one piece of legislation to be decided by Europe in particular taxation. The public never had an opportunity to vote on Lisbon and Maastricht. They now have and it’s no thanks.

This is nothing to go with tax dodging schemes - it’s to do with an elected government in its own country deciding fiscal policy.

It is to do with an elected EU parliament and a commission ensuring that EU countries don’t undercut each other and that all EU firms and citizens are taxed at the same or a similar rate. Takes power from the multinationals and gives it to the elected bodies by stopping the companies playing one country off against another. Why would the leavers, many of which are relatively low paid workers be against that? Why would they be against the third pillar of the banking union which is designed to protect their deposits? My guess is that these things are not explained to them by the Brexit press or scum like Farage, Gove and Johnson. They like to recommend films like Dunkirk to encourage the plucky Brit image, or dismiss experts who may be able to explain these things, or go on about classification of fruit and veg - such as bananas.

 

[Grendel]

It is to do with an elected EU parliament and a commission ensuring that EU countries don’t undercut each other and that all EU firms and citizens are taxed at the same or a similar rate. Takes power from the multinationals and gives it to the elected bodies by stopping the companies playing one country off against another. Why would the leavers, many of which are relatively low paid workers be against that? Why would they be against the third pillar of the banking union which is designed to protect their deposits? My guess is that these things are not explained to them by the Brexit press or scum like Farage, Gove and Johnson. They like to recommend films like Dunkirk to encourage the plucky Brit image, or dismiss experts who may be able to explain these things, or go on about classification of fruit and veg - such as bananas.

So you’d rather the fiscal policy of the United Kingdom is decided by Rumpy Pumpy and his successor the weasel from Luxembourg rather then the democratically elected government that occupies Westminster?

Seriously?

 

[Sick Boy]

It's interesting that the people taking back control means Whitehall refusing to release research into the effects of Brexit on 58 sectors. I wonder why that is?

 

[Grendel]

It's interesting that the people taking back control means Whitehall refusing to release research into the effects of Brexit on 58 sectors. I wonder why that is?

Do you think the EU should control Britain’s fiscal policy?

 

[Astute]

Not in the slightest worried about the EU direction. Very worried about the outcome of Brexit on the UK and specifically on UK citizens living and working in the EU.

The banking union is about control of the banks e.g. by a supervisory board. We already have two pillars.. bank supervision and the ECB. The third pillar includes protecting people’s deposits in the case of a run on the banks. It is about increasing the guarantees to savers and standardising them throughout the EU. To do that banks pool resources to lessen risks. Very necessary after what happened in 2008 and in Greece and maybe next in Italy.

An EU defence force is becoming increasingly necessary. NATO is obsolete ... according to Trump. It is also hugely dependent on countries such as the USA. Putin has started moving borders in Europe. Erdogan is becoming increasingly dangerous and is a NATO partner. There has to be serious talks on which way the EU should defend itself in these circumstances. I’m for some form of EU defence force.

And when people are talking about a chancellor of the exchequer for the EU they are obviously talking about taxes. He would be the one coordinating tax levels throughout the EU.

Let’s see how far the EU can progress now that the UK Tories are not putting the oar in.

That is some story you have managed to put together there.

 

[Astute]

Yes. As far as I am concerned companies should pay tax where they are trading, not where it is cheaper to do so. Germany wants that and so do I. It makes a mockery of tax paying when small businesses like mine end up being chased all over the place for every euro by the German tax man, and multi nationals or millionaires just shuffle the money around and pay far less in percent terms than I do. If we have an EU chancellor, then that may stop some of that.

So why is Juncker still in his position in the EU when what happened in Luxembourg whilst he was running the country is supposedly being investigated by the EU?

 

[Astute]

It's interesting that the people taking back control means Whitehall refusing to release research into the effects of Brexit on 58 sectors. I wonder why that is?

It's interesting that Juncker is pushing through massive changes in the EU when the massive changes that were made in Luxembourg while he was in charge are being investigated by the EU.

 

[Grendel]

Allo Allo

Germany has set back the fight against tax evasion | David McNair

 

[Astute]

It is to do with an elected EU parliament and a commission ensuring that EU countries don’t undercut each other and that all EU firms and citizens are taxed at the same or a similar rate. Takes power from the multinationals and gives it to the elected bodies by stopping the companies playing one country off against another. Why would the leavers, many of which are relatively low paid workers be against that? Why would they be against the third pillar of the banking union which is designed to protect their deposits? My guess is that these things are not explained to them by the Brexit press or scum like Farage, Gove and Johnson. They like to recommend films like Dunkirk to encourage the plucky Brit image, or dismiss experts who may be able to explain these things, or go on about classification of fruit and veg - such as bananas.

How much more wrong could you be?

It is all about how countries self govern. It is how they spend money. It is all about controlling what they spend. It is what they got Greece to do to get more loan money but the control would be without more loan money promised. It is all about taking control of fiscal policies.

 

[Astute]

Not in the slightest worried about the EU direction. Very worried about the outcome of Brexit on the UK and specifically on UK citizens living and working in the EU.

The UK wants to make a deal securing the rights of people already living here. It is the EU refusing to talk about residency rights.

The banking union is about control of the banks e.g. by a supervisory board. We already have two pillars.. bank supervision and the ECB. The third pillar includes protecting people’s deposits in the case of a run on the banks. It is about increasing the guarantees to savers and standardising them throughout the EU. To do that banks pool resources to lessen risks. Very necessary after what happened in 2008 and in Greece and maybe next in Italy.

So the EU needs to take control of our banks to help the rich?

No. It is all about taking 100% control of countries in the EU.

An EU defence force is becoming increasingly necessary. NATO is obsolete ... according to Trump. It is also hugely dependent on countries such as the USA. Putin has started moving borders in Europe. Erdogan is becoming increasingly dangerous and is a NATO partner. There has to be serious talks on which way the EU should defend itself in these circumstances. I’m for some form of EU defence force.

So Trump.is the biggest bullshitter in the world. But you are prepared to quote him when you can't think of anything else as to the reason why if we stay in the EU we would have to give up control of our own armed forces and hand them over to the EU.

I would prefer us to be an ally of the USA than give over full control to Juncker and his pals and whoever takes over from them next that we wouldn't get a say in.

And when people are talking about a chancellor of the exchequer for the EU they are obviously talking about taxes. He would be the one coordinating tax levels throughout the EU.

Are they bollox.

I like the way you put in about the exchequer. That part wasn't mentioned by juncker. What he said is that there will be a Chancellor for the EU.

Would you like to tell everyone who the Chancellor for Germany is?

Just in case you try to bullshit this part as well I will answer it for you. The Chancellor of Germany is Merkel.

Let’s see how far the EU can progress now that the UK Tories are not putting the oar in.

You call it progress?

We wouldn't have a say as usual. We didn't even want Juncker.

We are not after handouts like most of the EU countries. We wouldn't want to lose control of everything to the EU. The monster is getting out of control. And the German amongst us is all for it.

 

[Sick Boy]

It's interesting that Juncker is pushing through massive changes in the EU when the massive changes that were made in Luxembourg while he was in charge are being investigated by the EU.

Which has nothing to do with my post at all.

 

[Sick Boy]

The UK wants to make a deal securing the rights of people already living here. It is the EU refusing to talk about residency rights.

That is utter bollocks and an outright lie.

 

[Astute]

Which has nothing to do with my post at all.

Of course it hasn't.

So do you agree that Juncker should still keep his position in the EU when the EU are supposedly looking into the fraud committed by Luxembourg while he was in charge of them?

And before you say it the fraud remark came from the EU.

 

[Sick Boy]

Of course it hasn't.

So do you agree that Juncker should still keep his position in the EU when the EU are supposedly looking into the fraud committed by Luxembourg while he was in charge of them?

And before you say it the fraud remark came from the EU.

Where did I agree with it? I haven't mentioned it at all and was talking about something completely different.

It'd be easier to take you seriously if you dropped your neutral bollocks and admitted you're one of the most eurosceptic posters on this forum with a weird obsession over Juncker.

 

[Astute]

That is utter bollocks and an outright lie.

OMG you are as bad as Mart for not knowing what is going on or trying to make out that you don't know.

The EU won't talk about anything until they find out what we are willing to pay for without telling us how much it will cost us.

We want to talk about trade. We want to talk about residency rights. That is for those here and those from the UK in the EU.

But you already know this.

 

[Astute]

Where did I agree with it? I haven't mentioned it at all and was talking about something completely different.

It'd be easier to take you seriously if you dropped your neutral bollocks and admitted you're one of the most eurosceptic posters on this forum with a weird obsession over Juncker.

I know you haven't mentioned it.

You expect an answer for anything you come out with. But you won't say anything about why Juncker hasn't been at least suspended whilst the EU look into what happened when he was in charge of Luxembourg.

The EU call it fraud.

Yet he still has a high profile role in the EU as it is all supposedly looked into by the EU.

 

[Astute]

That is utter bollocks and an outright lie.

Ignore the naysayers. The Brexit negotiations are going better than EU leaders can let on | Henry Newman

 

[Sick Boy]

I know you haven't mentioned it.

You expect an answer for anything you come out with. But you won't say anything about why Juncker hasn't been at least suspended whilst the EU look into what happened when he was in charge of Luxembourg.

The EU call it fraud.

Yet he still has a high profile role in the EU as it is all supposedly looked into by the EU.

You were recently claiming he was the leader of the EU, but now he only has a high profile role?

I will let you get back to your bile and hatred now.

 

[Astute]

You were recently claiming he was the leader of the EU, but now he only has a high profile role?

I will let you get back to your bile and hatred now.

There are 5 leaders of the EU. He has one of the top 2. It is down to how you see his role if he is No.1 or No.2

So yet again do you say he should be in his role when the EU are investigating fraud which started in Luxembourg when he was running the country?

Why can't any of you pro EU answer the question?

And you called utter lies to what I said about residential rights. So why not reply to the link? Isn't the Guardian supposed to be a news outlet allowed on here?

 

[Astute]

I will let you get back to your bile and hatred now.

Are you talking about yourself?

Point out any bias you say I have.

When something new comes out I comment on it. When it is something you are happy with you make no comment. When it is something you don't like you try to pull it to bits. But you never manage to as I am not biased. Then you go on about me being biased

You still go on about the lies that were told at the time of the vote. I say both sides lied to us. You are only interested in the lies from the Brexit lot. Yet you call me biased.

How about showing a bit of evidence for once on the UK not wanting to sort out residency rights? It now sits with the EU on what they call technicalities. You called what I said absolute bullshit. I provide a link from The Guardian. Oh dear. You go quiet again.

Of course I will speak up against a lot of what you say. It is mainly old news covered hundreds of times already. But you only want to question one side.

You don't even like it when I say anything about Labour. But you don't mind when I have a go at any other UK party.

Yes I get that your parents were not born in the UK. I get that your partner isn't from the UK. But if you only look at everything from one angle you will never see the whole picture.

 

[Sick Boy]

Are you talking about yourself?

Point out any bias you say I have.

When something new comes out I comment on it. When it is something you are happy with you make no comment. When it is something you don't like you try to pull it to bits. But you never manage to as I am not biased. Then you go on about me being biased

You still go on about the lies that were told at the time of the vote. I say both sides lied to us. You are only interested in the lies from the Brexit lot. Yet you call me biased.

How about showing a bit of evidence for once on the UK not wanting to sort out residency rights? It now sits with the EU on what they call technicalities. You called what I said absolute bullshit. I provide a link from The Guardian. Oh dear. You go quiet again.

Of course I will speak up against a lot of what you say. It is mainly old news xovered hundreds of times already. But you only want to question one side.

You don't even like it when I say anything about Labour. But you don't mind when I have a go at any other UK party.

Yes I get that your parents were not born in the UK. I get that your partner isn't from the UK. But if you only look at everything from one angle you will never see the whole picture.

Hahahaha you are one of the most anti-EU posters in this debate.

It's strange that you've never once called out the likes of Johnson saying the EU 'could go whistle' if it wants money as part of any settlement and those wanting to leave without any sort of deal at all. Is it a surprise the EU is wary of the UK?

As I've already said before, you spend a lot of time criticising the EU and I've yet to see you call out anyone else other than remain supporters on this thread.

I admit I'm pro-EU, why don't you just admit you don't like the EU rather than pretending to be neutral?

I could go along with the Brexit as described by NW and JHFC, but that is never going to happen under this government and their mass incompetence. It's also strange that you haven't called this out either as a supposed Labour voter and someone who is neutral in this debate.

 

[Astute]

Hahahaha you are one of the most anti-EU posters in this debate.

It's strange that you've never once called out the likes of Johnson saying the EU 'could go whistle' if it wants money as part of any settlement and those wanting to leave without any sort of deal at all. Is it a surprise the EU is wary of the UK?

So what deal frim the EU is on the table?

Yes nothing.

So what deal is there to accept or turn down?

We are not in as much a weak position as you seem to hope. If it is only an absolute crap offer then it should be turned down. If it is acceptable then it should be accepted. But you seem to be happy with accepting anything. Good job you are not a part of the negotiations. And yes I have said a fair bit about it previously. But you only remember what you want to.

I admit I'm pro-EU, why don't you just admit you don't like the EU rather than pretending to be neutral?

How many times have I said that there are good things about the EU and there are bad things about the EU?

You and others try to make out that it is nearly all good. Well it isn't. And you don't like me mentioning the bad parts. Like what direction it is going in. But all you can do is make excuses up for them.

I could go along with the Brexit as described by NW and JHFC, but that is never going to happen under this government and their mass incompetence. It's also strange that you haven't called this out either as a supposed Labour voter and someone who is neutral in this debate.

I am a lifelong Labour voter and union member. Does this mean that I shouldn't mention anything against them?

I have said plenty against the Tories. But yet again you ignore what I say that you agree with and pick out the bits you don't like. If you look back you will see that I agreed with them. But we have a problem. We can only agree on what the EU offer us. And I get the impression from you that we should accept whatever it is that is offered.


So yet again I ask the same question that hasn't been answered by anyone.

Should Juncker at least be suspended while the investigation into the tax dodge done by Luxembourg whilst Juncker was running Luxembourg as the EU are calling it fraud?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

So what deal frim the EU is on the table?

Yes nothing.

So what deal is there to accept or turn down?

We are not in as much a weak position as you seem to hope. If it is only an absolute crap offer then it should be turned down. If it is acceptable then it should be accepted. But you seem to be happy with accepting anything. Good job you are not a part of the negotiations. And yes I have said a fair bit about it previously. But you only remember what you want to.


How many times have I said that there are good things about the EU and there are bad things about the EU?

You and others try to make out that it is nearly all good. Well it isn't. And you don't like me mentioning the bad parts. Like what direction it is going in. But all you can do is make excuses up for them.


I am a lifelong Labour voter and union member. Does this mean that I shouldn't mention anything against them?

I have said plenty against the Tories. But yet again you ignore what I say that you agree with and pick out the bits you don't like. If you look back you will see that I agreed with them. But we have a problem. We can only agree on what the EU offer us. And I get the impression from you that we should accept whatever it is that is offered.


So yet again I ask the same question that hasn't been answered by anyone.

Should Juncker at least be suspended while the investigation into the tax dodge done by Luxembourg whilst Juncker was running Luxembourg as the EU are calling it fraud?

It's pretty standard. Most leavers will bash the EU, but they will at least highlight that it does have its good bits too. Most remainers seem to just want argue water isn't wet with the EU even when it's quite clear there are flaws.

It makes for a painful and pretty pointless debate.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

It is to do with an elected EU parliament and a commission ensuring that EU countries don’t undercut each other and that all EU firms and citizens are taxed at the same or a similar rate. Takes power from the multinationals and gives it to the elected bodies by stopping the companies playing one country off against another. Why would the leavers, many of which are relatively low paid workers be against that? Why would they be against the third pillar of the banking union which is designed to protect their deposits? My guess is that these things are not explained to them by the Brexit press or scum like Farage, Gove and Johnson. They like to recommend films like Dunkirk to encourage the plucky Brit image, or dismiss experts who may be able to explain these things, or go on about classification of fruit and veg - such as bananas.

“Scum like Farage, Gove and Johnson. They like to recommend films like Dunkirk to encourage the plucky Brit image”


I find it deeply offensive that you should use terms such as ‘scum’ and ‘plucky Brit’ to disparagingly refer to the evacuation of Dunkirk.

The bravery, heroism and personal sacrifice of those involved in the Battle of France and the miraculous evacuation of Dunkirk should forever be remembered and honoured. Plucky doesn’t even come close, it’s an insult.

Rather than take every opportunity to denigrate this country, you would do well to learn from the qualities of those who fought for the freedom you now enjoy.

In this instance, if anyone is scum, it’s you.

 

[Astute]

It's pretty standard. Most leavers will bash the EU, but they will at least highlight that it does have its good bits too. Most remainers seem to just want argue water isn't wet with the EU even when it's quite clear there are flaws.

It makes for a painful and pretty pointless debate.

That is the problem. Those most biased accuse others of being biased for having an opinion that differs to theirs.

I will be retiring in 10 years maximum. That is when my youngest two are 18 and 19. Our plan is to give the house to the kids still living with us. We will be investing in a retirement motorhome. The plan is to drive to Dover and turn right at Calais. Follow the coast and stop at each place that looks nice. If we like it then spend a month or two there. If not then drive down the coast a bit more. Then eventually we will get to Spain, Portugal, back to Spain, back to France, Italy and so on.

If it all goes totally wrong our retirement dream could be gone. We have worked and saved hard for it to happen. I could easily be nasty and biased like others on here. But I can see the whole story.

Yes the younger voters by majority voted remain. But I am worried about their futures. People like SB and his partner work hard but struggle to pay their rent. Yet they blame everything but the EU for why there isn't enough housing. Yes it isn't just the right of anyone in the EU to come and live here what has caused the housing shortage. But what you get is every comment about the other reasons and excuses about the EU rules part.

I didn't want Brexit. I wanted talks on what could be done. Juncker called Cameron a liar about talks on changes. That is what most probably gave us the Brexit vote. Now we have to deal with it.

 

[Sick Boy]

“Scum like Farage, Gove and Johnson. They like to recommend films like Dunkirk to encourage the plucky Brit image”


I find it deeply offensive that you should use terms such as ‘scum’ and ‘plucky Brit’ to disparagingly refer to the evacuation of Dunkirk.

The bravery, heroism and personal sacrifice of those involved in the Battle of France and the miraculous evacuation of Dunkirk should forever be remembered and honoured. Plucky doesn’t even come close, it’s an insult.

Rather than take every opportunity to denigrate this country, you would do well to learn from the qualities of those who fought for the freedom you now enjoy.

In this instance, if anyone is scum, it’s you.

Let's not forget the non British soldiers who were fighting as part of the British army and those Poles who took part in the battle of Britain.

It's also a disgrace that the likes of Farage and the rest of the far right mob hijack the bravery of those at Dunkirk for their political gains. Those who sacrificed their lives certainly didn't die for his type of dog whistle racism and politics.

 

[Sick Boy]

That is the problem. Those most biased accuse others of being biased for having an opinion that differs to theirs.

I will be retiring in 10 years maximum. That is when my youngest two are 18 and 19. Our plan is to give the house to the kids still living with us. We will be investing in a retirement motorhome. The plan is to drive to Dover and turn right at Calais. Follow the coast and stop at each place that looks nice. If we like it then spend a month or two there. If not then drive down the coast a bit more. Then eventually we will get to Spain, Portugal, back to Spain, back to France, Italy and so on.

If it all goes totally wrong our retirement dream could be gone. We have worked and saved hard for it to happen. I could easily be nasty and biased like others on here. But I can see the whole story.

Yes the younger voters by majority voted remain. But I am worried about their futures. People like SB and his partner work hard but struggle to pay their rent. Yet they blame everything but the EU for why there isn't enough housing. Yes it isn't just the right of anyone in the EU to come and live here what has caused the housing shortage. But what you get is every comment about the other reasons and excuses about the EU rules part.

I didn't want Brexit. I wanted talks on what could be done. Juncker called Cameron a liar about talks on changes. That is what most probably gave us the Brexit vote. Now we have to deal with it.

I think the there is going to be a major issue with your retirement plan of touring Europe post-Brexit.

 

[Grendel]

I think the there is going to be a major issue with your retirement plan of touring Europe post-Brexit.

Why? According to you there are police banging in your door now if you stay for over 90 days.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why? According to you there are police banging in your door now if you stay for over 90 days.

Yet another lie. I clearly stated that this was due to my residency application. I wouldn't have been able to rent a property legally without it.

I'm all for freedom of movement being kept without visas.