The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (102 Viewers)

[Astute]

That’s the other danger of course if the brexit negotiations with the EU are anything to go by.

If any country puts greed before the people like the EU does we just walk away.

 

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[Astute]

Ahhh yes multiple lies are just one small lie. What rubbish.

Here we go again.

They all lied. But you only concentrate on the lies from one side.

 

[skybluetony176]

What makes you say that?

If it don't benefit us we won't sign it. If it doesn't benefit them they won't sign it. There is a lot more to protect in 28 regions than just 1.

If we don’t sign it we default to WTO which doesn’t benefit us. Struggling to see the gain here. Maybe you could explain?

 

[skybluetony176]

If any country puts greed before the people like the EU does we just walk away.

And that advances us how? You’re making a very good case for remain here.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

No one wants it to suffer. Those of us who genuinely believe Brexit is a disaster believe it is going to negative for the country. It's completely different from wanting it to all go wrong to prove a point.

Not sure why any of this matters as apparently we are going to be under Shariah Law within 100 years.

Why won't you take my bet then, if it is so ridiculous? Plus I said parts of the UK will be under elements of Shariah law.

There's saying 'of course we don't want it to fail' and then there's acting like you want the complete opposite.

You're not alone though, there's millions of people that are acting like you.

 

[Astute]

If we don’t sign it we default to WTO which doesn’t benefit us. Struggling to see the gain here. Maybe you could explain?

So you want a deal that benefits other countries and not us over trading to WTO rules?

You are too used to the way that the EU deals with us. Other countries will be after deals that benefit both sides.

 

[Astute]

And that advances us how? You’re making a very good case for remain here.

So we should get shafted by other countries like we do by the EU?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Where have I said I want it to suffer? I see it suffering and see it is going to continue to suffer and I am complaining about it you moron. If brains were dynamite you wouldn’t have enough to blow your nose.

As I said to Sick Boy. You're playing the sob story of 'we're so down Brexit has killed the UK, and I care so much' when questioned on the spot. In reality though, you're practically setting off fireworks in celebration whenever some bad news comes in, and sticking your fingers in your ears whenever there's any postive news.

Just face it, you want Brexit to fail so you can tell the world 'I told you so'.

That can't be defended by you and about half a dozen others on here who might as well not be in the debate, as in 250 pages and thousands of posts, you fail to even have one word that's balanced.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why won't you take my bet then, if it is so ridiculous? Plus I said parts of the UK will be under elements of Shariah law.

There's saying 'of course we don't want it to fail' and then there's acting like you want the complete opposite.

You're not alone though, there's millions of people that are acting like you.

You and others are preparing the groundwork to pass the blame when it all goes wrong.

Happy to take your bet but not sure I am going to leave until 132.

 

[Kingokings204]

If we don’t sign it we default to WTO which doesn’t benefit us. Struggling to see the gain here. Maybe you could explain?

Again, WTO doesn’t benefit the EU either. It hurts them badly.

 

[Sick Boy]

Here we go again.

They all lied. But you only concentrate on the lies from one side.

As do you.

 

[Sick Boy]

I am not against the EU. In principle it is good. But it includes so much that is bad. And they put egos before what is best for the people of the EU.

...and the UK governments always does what's best for its citizens and the wider world?

 

[skybluetony176]

So you want a deal that benefits other countries and not us over trading to WTO rules?

You are too used to the way that the EU deals with us. Other countries will be after deals that benefit both sides.

You think we’re going to be able dictate terms to the likes of the USA and India? We need them more than they need us. If anyone is dictating terms it will be them. Inferior unethically farmed meat product from the USA and more migration from India. If you’re suggesting we should tell them to swivel and default to WTO where’s the gain? We were better off as an EU member. How is your mentality advancing the country?

 

[Astute]

You and others are preparing the groundwork to pass the blame when it all goes wrong.

Happy to take your best but not sure I am going to leave until 132.

Pass what blame?

The blame if Juncker and Barnier get too greedy? If they don't want to agree to a trade deal?

It can go wrong on both sides. But you are good at maki g accusations before anything happens.

 

[skybluetony176]

So we should get shafted by other countries like we do by the EU?

WTO means we’ve shafted ourselves. You’re really struggling here. We’re in the EU it’s leaving that is giving the EU the opportunity to shaft us.

 

[Astute]

As do you.

No I don't. I try and keep it balanced on here. Who keeps mentioning the bus on here but not the lies from the other side?

Everyone knows about the bus. It isn't new news.

THEY BOTH LIED.

 

[Astute]

...and the UK governments always does what's best for its citizens and the wider world?

A lot more than the EU.

 

[Astute]

You think we’re going to be able dictate terms to the likes of the USA and India? We need them more than they need us. If anyone is dictating terms it will be them. Inferior unethically farmed meat product from the USA and more migration from India. If you’re suggesting we should tell them to swivel and default to WTO where’s the gain? We were better off as an EU member. How is your mentality advancing the country?

Why do we need them more than they need us?

A trade deal is mutual.

So what sort of deal does the EU have with the USA and India?

 

[skybluetony176]

You and others are preparing the groundwork to pass the blame when it all goes wrong.

Happy to take your best but not sure I am going to leave until 132.

It’s been happening for a while. People like us are ruining the country just yesterday, the people who didn’t vote leave getting blamed for brexit failing every week on question time from members of the audience who did vote leave etc etc

 

[Astute]

WTO means we’ve shafted ourselves. You’re really struggling here. We’re in the EU it’s leaving that is giving the EU the opportunity to shaft us.

The EU has been shafting us for years.

Why am I struggling? I haven't had any problem explaining any points.

 

[Astute]

It’s been happening for a while. People like us are ruining the country just yesterday, the people who didn’t vote leave getting blamed for brexit failing every week on question time from members of the audience who did vote leave etc etc

Just like people like myself that can think for myself and look at it from both sides are biased because I don't always agree with those still moaning about which way the vote went.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why do we need them more than they need us?

A trade deal is mutual.

So what sort of deal does the EU have with the USA and India?

As members of the EU we have a strength to limit numbers arriving from India and still have a free trade agreement, as members of the EU we have a strength to reject USA meat products as part of the trade deal. We’re leaving the EU and India wants us to increase immigration from India into the UK as part of a trade deal and the US want us to take their meat products as part of a trade deal. How has leaving the EU strengthened our arm against these two countries? Is this setting the pattern?

A trade deal is mutually agreed it doesn’t mean its mutually beneficial.

The EU trades with India under the GSP Scheme mainly which is duty free or heavily discounted duty depending on the product. It’s basically a free trade agreement in all but name and doesn’t mean that the EU has to compromise on immigration because of the strength it has as a trading bloc. This has been protecting us too. A protection we’re about to lose and India has set its stall out.

Can’t say I’ve done any trade with the US so can’t really comment without some research. But whatever it is it doesn’t include the import of unethically farmed, inferior, pumped full of drugs, bleached meat products. Because of strength in numbers they can refuse it. Again the US has set it’s stall out.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just like people like myself that can think for myself and look at it from both sides are biased because I don't always agree with those still moaning about which way the vote went.

If you could look at it from both sides we’d be agreeing on half the things we discuss. That isn’t happening.

 

[chiefdave]

There's no guarantee we can fall back to WTO. We are a WTO signatory via our EU membership. It will need the agreement of the EU for the rights to be transferred to the UK without amendment. Even then we'd need to fight for our share of the current WTO quotas, what incentive is there for other countries to reduce their share of any quota

One question. Do people really think we can get all these deals sorted in the next 14 months? Look at the US, one of the most power single countries negotiating deals, as an example. From the start of negotiations to implementation their trade deal with Australia took 22 years, Mexico 31 years, Canada 32 years and Korea 69 years.

 

[Astute]

If you could look at it from both sides we’d be agreeing on half the things we discuss. That isn’t happening.

Is that right?

I say that both Labour an the Tories are poor. You have a go at me for defending May and having a go at Labour.

I say that there is good and bad about being in the EU. You have a go at me for mentioning the bad.

 

[martcov]

Is that right?

I say that both Labour an the Tories are poor. You have a go at me for defending May and having a go at Labour.

I say that there is good and bad about being in the EU. You have a go at me for mentioning the bad.

Look at this thread again then. Most days it is a witch hunt against anyone who says anything against the EU or Corbyn. Most days it is a one sided rant and not a debate. So it keeps going around in circles.

I have always tried to be polite and put across good and bad from each side. Have you ever tried havi g a debate with those who have a fixed view and will defend it whatever?

Yes. I have.

 

[Sick Boy]

No I don't. I try and keep it balanced on here. Who keeps mentioning the bus on here but not the lies from the other side?

Everyone knows about the bus. It isn't new news.

THEY BOTH LIED.

You don't keep it balanced at all. You are one of the most passionate anti-EU posters on here. It's your choice and you're free to argue the case against it buy claiming that you're offering balance is absurd.

 

[Sick Boy]

Is that right?

I say that both Labour an the Tories are poor. You have a go at me for defending May and having a go at Labour.

I say that there is good and bad about being in the EU. You have a go at me for mentioning the bad.

It's strange you have never mentioned the positives or ever argued against anyone who is pro-Brexit.

 

[Sick Boy]

A lot more than the EU.

Do you have examples of how the UK takes better care of its citizens and the wider world?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Soon our goods will have 'Made in the UK' instead of 'Made in the EU'

All my products state 'Made in UK'. There's no reference to the EU on them although they're 100% compliant with EU regulations and as a consequence I distribute them through the EU including Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Poland, Italy, Sweden and Bulgaria.

Interestingly, a couple of years ago my major US customer requested that we have the Union Flag and 'Made in UK' printed prominently on the front of the packs because US customers see it as a statement of style and quality.

 

[Grendel]

Do you have examples of how the UK takes better care of its citizens and the wider world?

In terms of the wider world yes.

Expenditure on foreign aid is the highest in Europe. France in particular has a pathetic history in this area.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Our goods were I work have always said made in the UK. That isn’t the problem. The problem is that made in the U.K. will no longer mean made in the EU. and at times that’s going to deny UK companies access to market.

Nonsense

Compliancy with EU regulations is all that matters.

Do you imagine there are no 'Made in China' products in the EU?

 

[skybluetony176]

Nonsense

Compliancy with EU regulations is all that matters.

Do you imagine there are no 'Made in China' products in the EU?

Another area you clearly don’t understand. I’m not talking about consumables I’m talking about industrial equipment.

If you’re selling into a particular market and the tender specification specifically says goods must be of EU origin it’s written that way quite deliberately to stop inferior products from China, India etc. This is very common practice in the oil and gas industries, power generation industries and utilities industries. Especially in the Middle East and Gulf states but not exclusively to this region of the world and indeed in the EU itself. An EU certificate of origin is very much viewed as quality assurance.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Another area you clearly don’t understand. I’m not talking about consumables I’m talking about industrial equipment.

If you’re selling into a particular market and the tender specification specifically says goods must be of EU origin it’s written that way quite deliberately to stop inferior products from China, India etc. This is very common practice in the oil and gas industries, power generation industries and utilities industries. Especially in the Middle East and Gulf states but not exclusively to this region of the world and indeed in the EU itself. An EU certificate of origin is very much viewed as quality assurance.

Correct, I was referring to consumer goods, so apologies Tony.

 

[skybluetony176]

Correct, I was referring to consumer goods, so apologies Tony.

No problem. Apologies to you to. Having read my reply back I clearly over reacted in my opening sentence. Apologies again.