If you live adjacent to predominantly Muslim dominated areas in B'ham or London { You know the ones who proclaim , no whites } or are a young black lad in areas dominated by violent black gangs { And you are either with them or against them } then I guess it's not great pal !
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
I've not said all of Britain but yet again you twist everything and you make your otherwise fairly sensible arguments look pathetic when you do that !
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Again, this offers nothing to the EU debate. A lot of these 'third world people' you describe will be born here. I've also lived in Highfields in Leicester, Deptford and Lewisham. None of them were a living nightmare either.
I suppose you see it all though in leafy Burbage.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Going to be going over spring/summer thanks.
It's not that leafy anymore, they keep building everywhere ! Twas once ! It's tough living with my wife of 23 years who is the daughter of a stringent Irish Catholic though...... I'm joking she's lovely it's not tough at all. My next door neighbor is Chinese and 3 doors down is a Greek couple. Please don't insinuate we are an English only haven made for slamming our jack boots up and down the close !
I was answering Astute. Not you..
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That’s the thing isn’t it. You and me and a couple of others get accused of hating the country but we ain’t the ones who continually put it down. I love the modern UK with it’s diversity, I can accept that our customs and traditions have been shaped by foreign influence whether that be invading Romans, Saxons, Norman’s, Viking’s or if you prefer Italians, Germans, French/Belgiums, Danes. Or the foreign influence we’ve brought back while invading all corners of the world. I love a hot cup of Asian tea as much as the next Brit, I love fish and North American vegetable cooked in a Belgium style, I love a Sunday roast with all the vegetables the Romans introduced with roast North American vegetable. I support the national teams of two British countries, I’m proud of my heritage which stretches from three countries in Britain in three generations, I love a great British curry a tradition that goes back to Victorian times and I’m happy to have a monarchy as it’s quintessentially British. I’m not down on this country at all. Like you say, the only ones running it down is the brexiteers.
Yes. If they admitted Britain was great - despite problems that all countries with a large population have - they couldn’t justify leaving the EU. Ironic.
Marty
Well-Known Member
I feel that I have justified my stance with the EU many times on this thread.
Trouble is , that population is growing quicker than our resources can cater for and in the process of trying to take too many we are ruining the whole shebang for those who have worked for decades putting that infrastructure in place. I'm a socialist in many ways at heart but socialism has to have boundaries or it just can't keep up with expanding expectations !
It is not easy.
Putting the media uproar to one side, is the suggested £45bn or so fair ? It doesn't sound a million miles off what it should be from my understanding i.e. What we'd need to pay for our commitments (until 2019 and then further payments in a transition period) but I haven't seen a comprehensive breakdown. Also what proportion of EU assets have been offset against any figure.
I hope details of how they arrived at any settlement figure are made public as it will help everyone understand what needed to be paid (our commitments) and what else was paid on top to hopefully help to secure a decent trade agreement/relationship. I'd like to think we are grown ups in general and most people would agree we should pay our fair share of commitments especially if it's tied into agreement of a trade deal (still not sure if it is ?!)
Ps £10bn - cost of EU/MEP pensions....WTF !
I hope details of how they arrived at any settlement figure are made public as it will help everyone understand what needed to be paid (our commitments) and what else was paid on top to hopefully help to secure a decent trade agreement/relationship. I'd like to think we are grown ups in general and most people would agree we should pay our fair share of commitments especially if it's tied into agreement of a trade deal (still not sure if it is ?!)
Ps £10bn - cost of EU/MEP pensions....WTF !
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Why would they offer you a decent trade agreement when you've already agreed to pay them what they want?
The one negotiating tool you had is now gone.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Oh yes the pension system is not seen anywhere else in the world that’s this good. Herman van rompuy was paid a salary more than Obama and a massive payout when he retired also.
The EU look after their own and I think gravy train is quite appropriate. For goodness sake even Nigel Farage is a president in the EU parliament on a massive salary. Not to mention expenses per day they get. £300 a day is it?
No wonder they need a big divorce bill.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Don’t worry about the pensions. Ferage and co want nothing to do with the EU so he won’t be taking his €6k a month pension from them. Right?
UKIP’s dilemma: Pension or principles?
Mind you, he has worked for it. Right?
Donate Nigel Farage's EU pension to charity | Campaigns by You
And it’s not like he’ll be getting a redundancy package on top of that. Right?
British MEPs in line for €6m 'golden goodbye' when UK leaves EU
UKIP’s dilemma: Pension or principles?
Mind you, he has worked for it. Right?
Donate Nigel Farage's EU pension to charity | Campaigns by You
And it’s not like he’ll be getting a redundancy package on top of that. Right?
British MEPs in line for €6m 'golden goodbye' when UK leaves EU
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The amount of times he has actually been present to vote his shocking. A massive hypocrite!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Still. On a positive note a solution has been found to find the answers to the problems of the Irish border
Irish History To Be Written On Side Of A Bus For British People
Irish History To Be Written On Side Of A Bus For British People
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Brexit: Nigel Farage only turned up to one of 42 EU fisheries committee meetings | Descrier News
Even when it’s apparently important to him.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Whenever I have brought up the subject I have been accused of bringing it up because I am anti EU.
The whole thing is a joke. Remember this one?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I voted to leave. I probably still would vote to leave given another opportunity.
The mistake I made was expecting this joke of a Conservative government to be able to manage the process of leaving in a way that would protect my best interests.
The mistake I made was expecting this joke of a Conservative government to be able to manage the process of leaving in a way that would protect my best interests.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Speaking at a security conference in Berlin Michel Barnier accused the UK abandoning the defence of Europe at a time when it should be standing “shoulder to shoulder” with its neighbours in the EU.
The UK government said as recently as September that it wants to remain inside Europol and retain other EU security benefits such as the European Arrest Warrant and shared criminal databases.
Then he says......
But outlining the consequences of Brexit on defence and security, Mr Barnier said Britain would no longer be a member, adding that the UK would be leaving the European Defence Agency and that UK defence ministers and ambassadors would be excluded from international meetings with EU colleagues.
These changes were all a “logical consequence of the sovereign choice made by the British” in the referendum last year, he said.
He says we are abandoning it at a bad time, we say we want to stay in then he says we must leave.
Does anyone spot a contradiction there?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Out of interest how do you think the situation would have differed under a competent government rather than the joke conservative one? Serious question.
Personally I doubt if any of the details of the deal as it’s unfolding would have been majorly different from what they are. The only thing I think would have been majorly different is we would have got to the point we are now a lot sooner, it wouldn’t have been so calamitous and the dick waving wouldn’t have gone on so long, although inevitably there still would have been dick waving.
For me the details are what I was expecting from a hard brexit pretty much. The only way the details could be different is if we retained membership of the customs union, common market or maybe membership of the EEA.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
We’re having a hard brexit but we want to pick and choose some aspects of being an EU member. Isn’t that a contradiction?
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
I voted to leave......I still believe in the principles that lead me to that decision, but I'd probably abstain given another opportunity.
The mistake I made was expecting a general election to be called as soon as Cameron & Osborne jumped ship followed by real cross-party cooperation on formulating a transitional plan......
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes, I don't believe a Labour government would be as heavily influenced by outside forces like the Legatum Institute.
That said, things are happening in the background, just been speaking to a colleague who went to a briefing with lawyers last week, there is all sorts of legislation being drafted at the minute.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
OK, this is more interesting than the foreignist nonsense and the like that permeats on occasion in this thread
Not quite sure why you'd have expected a general election tbh? Conservatives stood on a platform of offering a referendum, which they delivered. Cameron jumped because he was plainly attached to the remain campaign... and tbh designed the referendum in such ridiculous terms that it was doomed to confusion really. 'Yes', 'No' can encompass so much within both answers, it was always ridiculous and was always going to lead to ongoing arguments, whatever the result.
Along with it being advisory really.
So he had to go really, but the party surely had delivered what it promised?
Tell you what though, an election immediately afterwards would have been interesting, in terms of what everybody chose to campaign on...
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
OK, this is more interesting than the foreignist nonsense and the like that permeats on occasion in this thread
Not quite sure why you'd have expected a general election tbh? Conservatives stood on a platform of offering a referendum, which they delivered. Cameron jumped because he was plainly attached to the remain campaign... and tbh designed the referendum in such ridiculous terms that it was doomed to confusion really. 'Yes', 'No' can encompass so much within both answers, it was always ridiculous and was always going to lead to ongoing arguments, whatever the result.
Along with it being advisory really.
So he had to go really, but the party surely had delivered what it promised?
Tell you what though, an election immediately afterwards would have been interesting, in terms of what everybody chose to campaign on...
It certainly would have been interesting......especially if Corbyns Labour had at least presented an argument for leaving from the left hand brexit door.......massive opportunity missed.
I think its not unreasonable to expect (at the very least) a very strong call from both opposition & the press for a GE after both the PM & Chancellor stepped down upon losing a national referendum that not only defined our nations future direction but also further divided the government of the day.....
.....still.....that'll teach me to expect anything other than horseshit from politicians.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I suspect we'd have seen Labour very split, and in geneuine crisis tbh...
There was also a possibility for a party (be it Lib Dems, Labour, or Conservative) to nail their colours very firmly to a pro EU mast, and pick up the voters who wanted to stay.
I know Lib Dems went into the last election on that platform, but after a spell of reflection and also with it not so raw, it wasn't really an issue other than in isolated pockets of the country. Might have been very different immediately after the event.
I'm not sure an election immediately afterwards would have been productive, as far as I'm concerned. It would have ended up single issue, and electing parties on single issues is rather destructive. Take, for example, a scenario where your left wing Brexit was propagated by Labour, and the Lib Dems had gone for pro EU... and Lib Dems ended up holding the balance of power. Would that have been constructive? Would that have helped negotiations?
'real cross-party cooperation on formulating a transitional plan......' Well that would have been nice but then our politicians don't work for the good of the country anymore, they work for themselves and to remain favoured within their party ! Wankers !
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I get all that but the moment that it was declared out means out, we’re having a hard brexit (something wholly applauded by the out camp) how was brexit ever going to be different to what’s happening? Other than being better organised.
Surely if out means out then this is out. The details wouldn’t be any different just the execution.
When you say that you were expecting something that “would protect my best interests” I assumed that meant that you weren’t expecting a hard brexit.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what is your meaning of a hard Brexit?
Quite what does it really mean ?!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Isn't that the whole problem?