The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (109 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
mrtrench said:
Mart, that's not correct. The bag is Northern Ireland.

Don't mean to be rude but I'm calling superior knowledge on this one as someone who studied statistics to degree level as part of a maths degree. Believe what you want but a 'so called expert' is saying that this survey is flawed and you cannot draw the conclusion that most people in NI want to merge with the Republic to remain in the EU.
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Yes it is flawed and I don’t take it as more than an indicator and have said you have to look at what other people are saying. Does it fit in with a pattern? We shall see.

Anyway Gove has claimed we don’t need so called experts.... and Davis hasn’t got any impact assessments..... so let’s just carry on steering without instruments... what can possibly go wrong? ;-)
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
That is not what he said He said after the election and after we have left, then we will be able to alter any deal. Which is dishonest and I would think that the EU will have twigged that. They can read as well.

Honest and fair would be to make any deal dependent on a referendum or an election - before we leave. To change it afterwards is neither democratic nor honest.
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The underlying message is what I said before.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
The underlying message is what I said before.
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I agree with you if the electorate are asked to ratify either by referendum or by an election. That is what leavers were saying about not being consulted every step of the way with EU projects. It would be cheeky not to ask their opinion of the Brexit deal - before leaving.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
mrtrench said:
I just took a sample of 1 and have concluded that all people living in Winchester are CCFC supporters. Take that as an indicator if you wish; I don't.
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Did you ask 2000 people in, say, 20 towns in the south? Did they all have at least 1 CCFC fan? If so, would it suggest that there is an above average amount of CCFC fans in the area?
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Ah surveys.

The thing that keeps getting the result of general elections wrong. The thing that got the Brexit vote wrong.

Ask the wrong questions you get the wrong answer. Ask in certain areas you get certain answers. If you asked who they were voting for in certain parts of Germany you would have expected a racist government.
 
mrtrench

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Did you ask 2000 people in, say, 20 towns in the south? Did they all have at least 1 CCFC fan? If so, would it suggest that there is an above average amount of CCFC fans in the area?
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I make no claim about other towns in the south. My claim is about Winchester. My questionnaire was also more fair than the one in the Indie - as I didn't lead the subject on by mentioning losing their civil rights or having a state of warfare if they didn't answer CCFC.
 
mrtrench

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
Mart, from memory there are three key things you need to get right to get reliable information from any sampling exercise:

1) The questions must be clear and neutral (the Indie one isn't, it mixes other factors and then attempts to draw a conclusion on just one of them)
2) the sample size must be adequate. This one isn't.
3) Sampling needs to be random or pseudo random. I didn't see anything in the article about how they selected the sample and so haven't mentioned it. This is what you keep going on about. OK, let's assume that they sampled pseudo-randomly (i.e. selecting from different areas in NI to get a broad range of opinions). Great, they did that bit right. However as they got the other two wrong it's not really relevant is it?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
mrtrench said:
Mart, from memory there are three key things you need to get right to get reliable information from any sampling exercise:

1) The questions must be clear and neutral (the Indie one isn't, it mixes other factors and then attempts to draw a conclusion on just one of them)
2) the sample size must be adequate. This one isn't.
3) Sampling needs to be random or pseudo random. I didn't see anything in the article about how they selected the sample and so haven't mentioned it. This is what you keep going on about. OK, let's assume that they sampled pseudo-randomly (i.e. selecting from different areas in NI to get a broad range of opinions). Great, they did that bit right. However as they got the other two wrong it's not really relevant is it?
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Never said it was gospel. Just said it is an indicator. Alone it doesn’t mean much, but there may be others which together could form a pattern.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
No one is persecuting the UK. The UK is leaving voluntarily. The EU are demonstrating a real commitment for EU citizens e.g. the GFA and border in Ireland and guarantees for EU citizens in the UK.

Weird.
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Voluntarily eh? Thought you were in denial & dispute & despair about it all?

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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Voluntarily eh? Thought you were in denial & dispute & despair about it all?

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No. Are you saying it’s not voluntary? Denial of what? Dispute about what? Despair at the lack of knowledge of some posters and the lack of a united cabinet or some sort of cohesive strategy. Yes. I‘ll give you that.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
Sky-bluer1 said:
The UK are leaving because we all had a vote, the vote result was leave it wasn't voluntary the British people want out !!!!
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The vote wasn’t voluntary? Or the government is being forced to leave against it‘s will? No one in the EU is forcing the UK to leave whatever your interpretation of the facts is.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
We could have done that months ago. We’ve fudged the Irish question which will come back to haunt us and we’ve made concessions on the ECJ. Yes, quite a week.
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Not sure I like you talking about 'we' coz you buggered off to Germany - so despite what Mr Cameron & Co spouted 'we' are not all in it together as we?

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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Unless it is say...France...that will be a 'misinformed' decision I guess?

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No. They will be given a list of reforms. If they don’t want them it’s up to them. It is more transparent than leave or remain as it actually says what they are voting for instead of leave or remain without knowing what that entails.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
No. I don’t want the AfD to be the main opposition party, but I do want a strong and stable government. That is more important. A side effect is that the bigots become the main opposition. Anyway, wait and see..... there is a lot of negotiating to be done...
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Double-standards! You're happy to allow the German government to negotiate ad nauseum for a stable government, but the UK - reading into your posts - have dragged their feet because they're clueless. I think you should have more faith in our government on this...they don't tell you nor I all about stuff, whether it be progress or agreement or negotiation.

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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
Exactly. No one will be entirely happy and everyone will suffer. Which is what I said all along. Should never have had the referendum.
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That's coz you're a neg-head! Maybe everyone will benefit? Just in a different way

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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Not sure I like you talking about 'we' coz you buggered off to Germany - so despite what Mr Cameron & Co spouted 'we' are not all in it together as we?

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We are certainly not in it together. I suspect those with offshore accounts will be pleased to be leaving as that makes it even more unlikely that the EU can get at them. Those on low wages with long hours will probably be not so pleased.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Double-standards! You're happy to allow the German government to negotiate ad nauseum for a stable government, but the UK - reading into your posts - have dragged their feet because they're clueless. I think you should have more faith in our government on this...they don't tell you nor I all about stuff, whether it be progress or agreement or negotiation.

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I am not happy to let the German government negotiate for months about a coalition. Whatever they are doing, they have laid out what they want. The teams are united as far as we know.

The SPD have promised to let their members vote on their strategy. Then they will have a mandate.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
But...you almost had me convinced that your spouting were what the actual outcome is going to be. Now I AM confused lol

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Sorry. I can’t understand what you are trying to say. Not surprised that you are also confused.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
You didn’t find that in Breitbart...
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And all the democracies in the world are steered by the biggest & noisiest businesses & their leaders...who often run said businesses like mini-dictatorships. They all hold 'transparency' & 'honesty' dear as values but for your own sake don't question or dispute how they implement their strategies or you will be out on your ear!!!

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S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
martcov said:
No. Are you saying it’s not voluntary? Denial of what? Dispute about what? Despair at the lack of knowledge of some posters and the lack of a united cabinet or some sort of cohesive strategy. Yes. I‘ll give you that.
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No it most certainly isn't voluntarily. We voted to leave as a nation. You've appeared to be trying to turn that around ever since!

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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
And all the democracies in the world are steered by the biggest & noisiest businesses & their leaders...who often run said businesses like mini-dictatorships. They all hold 'transparency' & 'honesty' dear as values but for your own sake don't question or dispute how they implement their strategies or you will be out on your ear!!!

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Are you preaching from Breitbart?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
No it most certainly isn't voluntarily. We voted to leave as a nation. You've appeared to be trying to turn that around ever since!

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The UK is leaving the EU of it’s own volition. No one is forcing it to leave. If it is not leaving voluntarily, who is forcing it to leave?
 
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