Are you confusing losing veto rights because of majority voting ( democracy), with losing voting rights ( not democracy)?
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (73 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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Are you confusing losing veto rights because of majority voting ( democracy), with losing voting rights ( not democracy)?
Astute
Well-Known Member
No. It is you that is trying to make out that losing your vote is democratic as you also have the choice to leave the EU.
Astute
Well-Known Member
It sounds like you are getting desperate.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It was conducted by a US think tank and has been quite widely reported. I can't seem to find it in the Mail or the Express though.
Brexit Britain worse off outside the EU, says think tank
No. Just pointing out that there are lot of arseholes who want to smash the EU. They want the trade benefits, but not social rules and minimum wages, which is why they will no doubt slag off people like Schultz who want more democracy and less tax dodging. You will no doubt be with them.
Which vote are you talking about? Giving people's representatives more power is certainly not your thing. And majority voting stops single countries trying to block policy for whatever reason. Much more democratic to accept majority voting. You say you like democracy, but when it's 26:2 for Juncker, you hate that and say we 'got no say'. We had 1/28th. You don't respect the vote anyway. When the EU gets majority voting on things in the second chamber, you won't accept that either as you prefer countries being able to override the majority which you describe as 'having a say'.( at least in the case of Britain ).
You've come out as a leaver, it is about time you came out as an anti democrat.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Like I said earlier they are only interested in what is best for America normally. Try reading up on them.
Or you can try this
Prison Planet.com » Insider Reveals Diabolical Secrets Of The Rand Corporation
Astute
Well-Known Member
Social rules?
You kept going on about democracy. Now they want to take the vote away. Yet you try and make out that losing the right to vote will make them more democratic.
Or are we supposed to congratulate Schulz on planning to take control away from the remaining EU countries?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Can you explain why you keep going on about majority voting when you have already admitted that they won't have a vote?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
So you'd agree that any trade deal is going to be massively in the USA's favour?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Rand have helped run the American governments for decades. We are their route into the EU. When we are gone so is the route.
Have you tried reading up on them yet? You will be in for a surprise.
What on earth are you on about? I asked you tell me who 'they' are and what vote 'they' are taking away? Up until now you have not given me an answer.
Schultz has put a proposition forward, but as he is not in the EU or in a government at the moment, it is just a proposition. What control is he planning on taking away? He is for an EU Finance minister to coordinate such things as VAT and Corporation tax. OK. Then the minister makes sure that the taxes agreed by the parliament and the second chamber are enforced. But, what we are talking about is more power to the elected representatives and a second chamber based on majority voting by countries' representatives. So, yet again, I ask you where are the votes being taken away? Powers will be increased for the MEPs who are voted in by the EU citizens. If you mean some policies will decided by MEPs and others by MPs, both are elected by the same citizens. So, who lost votes? Who cannot vote? He is suggesting taking some control and giving to it a "real government" which is an elected parliament. The remaining EU countries have discussed this and agreed to it by then. The control is still by a democratically elected body. So where has the control left democratic control and which votes have been lost? And why are you even bothered?
Who won't have a vote?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
How are we the USA’s route into the EU?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Here you go back into denial mode. And being German I would expect you to at least know his name.
So are you denying that the EU wants the German election debacle sorting out?
Are you denying that Juncker wants to make major changes?
Are you denying that Macron wants the same?
Are you denying that he wants them to have the choice of losing their vote or leaving the EU?
Astute
Well-Known Member
For one I work for an American company.
Starting to import: Importing from non-EU countries - GOV.UK
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Isn't that a conspiracy theory? If they control the government, why is the current one anti EU and has backed Brexit?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I'm not sure he knows himself. Even if it was the case, what would be stopping them going via Ireland or any other country?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Oh dear.
They want what is best for the USA. They don't care about us.
This is from Rand
Potential Impacts of Brexit on UK, EU, U.S. Economies
Strangely enough they say the best all round is a USA UK EU deal. Work that one out.
Astute
Well-Known Member
It is more than sales. Like I said it is their way into the EU.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
And how does that make us the USA route into the EU?
I’m sure lots of people in Europe work for US companies, not sure what your point is.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
What does that even mean? Again, if we were, why couldn't they go via another country?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Yeah I saw that earlier. You'd think they'd be positive about Brexit then if your claims were true.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Look into it or check the Rand page saying that a USA EU UK deal is best.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
How? While we’re in the EU we’re governed by the same import regulations as every other member state. Nothing is going to change for US importers to the EU other than maybe a change of destination for getting goods into the EU. Which (if what you say has any truth) actually would cut us out and maybe take work away from the UK.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Are you on the wind up?
Astute
Well-Known Member
But that doesn't give the USA EU UK deal.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Can you read? If you can then read the link.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Brexit would be the start of it though, wouldn't it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
We’re not even in the top ten of European ports, container or otherwise.
1. you say people are losing a vote. I am asking who? I don’t know any by name.
2. No. so do the Germans. Steinmeier, the president, has asked them to sort something out for the good of the country. Where have I denied that?
3. No. we have already talked about that. He thinks Brexit has opened a window to get things moving.
Where have I denied that?
4. No. Macron has made similar suggestions to Schulz. Why would I deny that? I want to hear new ideas, or old ones revitalised.
Where have I denied that?
5. If you mean Schultz. It is the only way you can get rid of the veto rights and on to a real democracy. If you don’t want to be part of a federal EU, then leave. It won’t happen tomorrow as Schulz is 1. not in the EU and 2. not in power in Germany.
I would vote for a federal EU if it was put to a vote.
Where have I denied that the membership would have a choice?
Seeing as I haven’t denied anything will you please stop making things up.... such as that I keep denying things.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You won't understand if you don't want to.
We have had good relations for years. Who else do the USA have a good long term relationship with?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I thought you were dismissing what Rand had to say?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
That's the reason? Haha...
What's stopping them going via Ireland? Another country they have a good relationship with.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
He's making it up as he goes along. They were an EU mouthpiece earlier.