Motor Vehicle for Robins (12 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

You continually fail to acknowledge anything when the talk turns to football as it must be the owners fault the sa\me as italia, it can't be the manager making wrong decisions or messing things like recruitment up.

In reality its both Manager and owners responsibilities.
You bias towards the manager and I bias towards Sisu.
I feel better for doing this.
In reality Sisu are doing just enough but ownership should be more than that.

 

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[Nick]

In reality its both Manager and owners responsibilities.
You bias towards the manager and I bias towards Sisu.
I feel better for doing this.
In reality Sisu are doing just enough but ownership should be more than that.

No, it's common sense.

There are things players need to take responsibility for, there are things the manager needs to take responsibility for. Blaming owners for somebody missing a penalty or for a random tactical decision is stupid.

It's the same as people won't be blaming Robins or Burge for a stadium issue.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Mark Robins hasn’t lasted much more than 2 years at any of his previous clubs were they all wrong ?

Jose Mourinho hasn't lasted more than 3 years at any of his clubs. Were they all wrong?

 

[Esoterica]

There's a lot of stupid shit said on this forum but this thread, more than most recently, has managed to make my head hurt over an extended number of pages!

 

[oucho]

There's a lot of stupid shit said on this forum but this thread, more than most recently, has managed to make my head hurt over an extended number of pages!

Just don't read it. That approach works for me.

 

[Grendel]

Your persisting with this.
If Robins has had to compromise on the team he wants can he be blamed ?
if his resources are limited and has to switch the formation to rest players can he be blamed?
Okay any manager can make mistakes but should learn from it.
It's not worth sacking him for where we are though.
Having said that I assume he took the job knowing the situation so okay your sort of right

If anything we have too big a squad you idiot

 

[Otis]

I would qualify the "if we don't go up this season it isn't a problem". If we don't go up having been part of the play offs it is possibly not a problem. However if we fail to reach those play offs I think the knock on effect will be to make the finances much harder next season and potentially even smaller crowds. If they are struggling to get to a 9000 average crowd this season when we are in the mix it would be reckless to budget for anything similar next season ............... which of course has a knock on effect when building a squad in the summer

Pointing to 15 players signed on is a little misleading............. there had to be a significant number brought in during the summer simply to have a squad, following the departures end of last season.

I think Robins is doing ok so far. I wouldn't advocate sacking him based on what has been achieved to date. He is however not the most financially handicapped manager in L2 by some distance. If he has the 8th best budget that means 16 that are worse off. As I pointed out earlier success has been achieved on much lower turnovers than ours and no great owner investment so it is not just about throwing money at the team. Blaming the budget or finances for not going up really doesn't wash. Yes we have had injuries, but that's the same as all the other teams so again isn't really an excuse.

Could the owners put more money in, well yes but do they need to when we already have enough funds to compete, and perhaps they no longer have access to funds appropriate to football investment so cant. Hard to see lots of investors falling over themselves to put money in given the CCFC track record and lack of assets. From what I have seen of the SISU accounts there isn't lots of spare cash, and if their investors have been burnt already where do they get these sums demanded from?

The club (ie the structure up to and including Boddy) seems to be a little more proactive and transparent. They have been left to sort it out and in that sense the non involvement of SISU is welcome. Of course more funds might help, but how many teams throw money at the squad and fail, I would suggest many. What people do not look at is the increased debt, which increases risks which is a problem if it is other peoples money. There also seems to be a general impression that football investment should be free money - why? especially why if it is purely an investment not a love of the club.

For now we have to live with the set up we have. That means living within our means in L2. It would seem to be agreed that those means are in the top 8 or so in the division based on TF statements at the start of the season. So we should be in the mix, a bit of luck and decent decision making then the play offs are still there to grab

Just a thought but if our crowds have dropped off what about everyone elses? L2 the main income for any club is matchday income, not all benefit from player sales or add ons. Small crowds also means lower interest and lower alternative incomes too. The rules of finance don't just apply to CCFC

Robins has the means to achieve, given a little luck he could. He gets things wrong as does everyone else, I don't think we should be calling for his head.

I know a lot of people are happy with the playoffs, but if we make it and then get knocked out, you just watch the total meltdown on here.

It not be a happy bunny place and anger and frustration will abound.

 

[italiahorse]

If anything we have too big a squad you idiot

Its not the size its the quality.
Adding an insult gives me a clue to your mentality.

 

[Nick]

I know a lot of people are happy with the playoffs, but if we make it and then get knocked out, you just watch the total meltdown on here.

It not be a happy bunny place and anger and frustration will abound.

It depends on the circumstance.

1-0 down in the play off final or semi final and he brings Kelly on for Bayliss for no reason (or something random like that) then I won't be happy. We get outplayed and lose it's fair enough, go again next year.

 

[Nick]

Its not the size its the quality.
Adding an insult gives me a clue to your mentality.

What's wrong with the quality? Can you go into more detail and compare with other squads who also haven't spend shit loads that still manage to beat us?

 

[ajsccfc]

Its not the size its the quality.

 

[italiahorse]

No, it's common sense.

There are things players need to take responsibility for, there are things the manager needs to take responsibility for. Blaming owners for somebody missing a penalty or for a random tactical decision is stupid.

It's the same as people won't be blaming Robins or Burge for a stadium issue.

If your boss doesn't give you the tools is it your fault or his you can't do your job ?

 

[Otis]

It depends on the circumstance.

1-0 down in the play off final or semi final and he brings Kelly on for Bayliss for no reason (or something random like that) then I won't be happy. We get outplayed and lose it's fair enough, go again next year.

If we lose, someone will be blamed.

I recall the Crewe JPT game where we totally dominated and had something like 30 shots. Crewe had 3 shots and scored 3 goals.

I thought we played well that's night and just felt we were very unlucky, but it was crazy on the forums. Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth as to what a bad side we are.


I also think people are already sick of League Two and some won't stomach another season. We fail to go up, people will be moaning because of that too.

 

[italiahorse]

What's wrong with the quality? Can you go into more detail and compare with other squads who also haven't spend shit loads that still manage to beat us?

Simple really, I look at the teams and in general the other team always seem to have a better midfield and strikers than we do.

 

[Nick]

If your boss doesn't give you the tools is it your fault or his you can't do your job ?

If he gives me the same tools as all but bar one or two competitors out of over twenty then it's on me. Especially if I picked the tools.

He clearly has the tools.

 

[Grendel]

Its not the size its the quality.
Adding an insult gives me a clue to your mentality.

Oh I see so when we had a central defender an attacking midfielder and a right winger out for the season you’d not moan in a thinner squad if we had no replacements?

 

[Grendel]

Simple really, I look at the teams and in general the other team always seem to have a better midfield and strikers than we do.

So other clubs have had £1 million offers for a midfielder and have sold a reserve midfielder to a premier league club as wolves will be next season then?

 

[Moff]

The club and players are doing their best but overall the team is now going to struggle (again) through lack of quality in depth.

Sorry but seriously what team in league two has strength and quality in depth?

 

[italiahorse]

So other clubs have had £1 million offers for a midfielder and have sold a reserve midfielder to a premier league club as wolves will be next season then?

Both are investments for the future. Both should not be solely relied on.
A midfield is more than one surely ?

 

[Grendel]

Both are investments for the future. Both should not be solely relied on.
A midfield is more than one surely ?

We have about 6

 

[Nick]

Both are investments for the future. Both should not be solely relied on.
A midfield is more than one surely ?

Quality, not quantity.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

What's wrong with the quality? Can you go into more detail and compare with other squads who also haven't spend shit loads that still manage to beat us?

Not sure about the quality as they are just finding their way in the football league but F G R have done it twice and I don't think they have splashed the cash . I do think quality does help but we have too big a squad considering our finances.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Poor formation and tactics of the team are down to the manager, that’s his job , as I said at the start of this thread no plan b or c . SISU are not part of this. We have a squad and a training ground to get it right , I believe he takes some opposition for granted and we get bitten . He is problably on the phone to Barnsley as I type this.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's not the quantity its the quality of the players we want and to build a squad rather than change it continuously.
We do the same every year and clear them out the following year.
The club are doing what they can within the constraints of the owners.
The club and players are doing their best but overall the team is now going to struggle (again) through lack of quality in depth.
Real owners would show more interest or move on when they loose it.

Very vague, wishy washy response, that is not grounded in facts at all.

Have we signed quality in good quantities. Players we’ve signed who’s experienced promotion from L2:
- Doyle (Pompey)
- McDonald (N’hampton)
- Vincenti (Rochdale)
- Davies (Pompey)
- Liam O’Brien

Players we’ve signed who’ve mainly played in the league above or proven track record in L2:
- McNulty - 1 in 3 in L2
- Jonson Clarke-Harris - we tried to sign Craig Davies - agreed a deal, didn’t want to come.
- Grimmer (Shrewsbury, played for Fulham in Championship too)
- Kelly

The remaining players fit neither category:
- Biamou - signed as a development player, injuries have pushed him up the pecking order. Improved massively as the season has progressed. Signed as a 2nd choice to Doncaster’s Williams (who Donny wanted to keep) - got 12 goals last year.
- Nazon - his 8 goals in half season suggests he was a good signing
- Andreu - looked a class above when he’s played - out injured for the season
- Hyam - Reading U23s and has looked capable when he’s had to fill in

Oh, and we’ve only let Stevenson go, and Thomas wanted to go to Leicester. From what we know, every player we’ve signed has been MR and TW’s signings. Moreover, they aimed pretty high for at least 2 strikers, and the owners have provided the resources to sign them - one player didn’t want to come, and the other club wanted to resign their player. No SISU boogeyman here.

Factor in our results against the better teams in this division, it’s apparent we’ve signed quality this season. You tell me how we could’ve done better? Could we have spent 300k+ on a ‘proven L2 goal scorer’ like James Collins? Maybe, but McNulty has scored in more games and more goals in total this season.

Your narrative just does not fit well with reality. You can blame SISU for so many things, however, you cannot blame them for any failings on the pitch this season.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

We have let only 23 goals in this season. Second best is 30.

Great work SISU!

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Mucca Mad Boys not could have signed proven L2 goalscorer should have . If McNulty had got injured early we would have been up shit street because the forwards we have on our books and we have plenty would not have got his tally if they were all playing another area where Robins cocked up plenty of quantity no quality.

 

[Nick]

Mucca Mad Boys not could have signed proven L2 goalscorer should have . If McNulty had got injured early we would have been up shit street because the forwards we have on our books and we have plenty would not have got his tally if they were all playing another area where Robins cocked up plenty of quantity no quality.

What if the proven striker got injured?

 

[Otis]

We have only let in 23 goals this season.

Great work SISU!

I think you may be confusing people who are great defenders of Sisu with Sisu being great defenders.

 

[clint van damme]

Mucca Mad Boys not could have signed proven L2 goalscorer should have . If McNulty had got injured early we would have been up shit street because the forwards we have on our books and we have plenty would not have got his tally if they were all playing another area where Robins cocked up plenty of quantity no quality.

we gave Beavon a new contract. He's is proven at this level but it hasn't worked out.
No manager gets it right all the time and this one has to go down as a Robins mistake though in general his transfers have been pretty good.

 

[Esoterica]

we gave Beavon a new contract. He's is proven at this level but it hasn't worked out.
No manager gets it right all the time and this one has to go down as a Robins mistake though in general his transfers have been pretty good.

You see I still don't think it was mistake to give Beavon a new contract when you look at it as a decision in isolation. Decent track record, promoted with Burton, another senior experienced player in the squad with a decent attitude.
The mistake was then to play a formation that utilised 2 DMs with wide players like Jodi Jones and Vincenti (not your classical wingers), along with forwards who need chances created for them. The only players that will score regularly in that shape and formation is those that can create for themselves. Flair players that can do something unexpected, beat a man and bang the ball into the top corner. Goal out of nothing players.
Jones and Nazon thrived because they could utilise the hole where our midfield should have been to cut inside and shoot. Beavon was too slow to play as deep as he was though and not big enough to cope with the balls launched a him, McNulty left isolated until Bayliss joined the midfield allowing the 2nd striker to play a bit higher, Ponticelli suffering the same as McNulty and left chasing the ball into areas where his predatory instincts are useless, Biamou deployed as a defensive target man, too far from goal half the time. Both Beavon and Ponti are scoring plenty in the U23s, both neutralised in the first team by a combination of the role they're asked to play and the shape. Now I don't think Beavon or Biamou will ever be more than 10 goal a season strikers and all those strikers have missed rare chances to score a few more than they have, but it's no coincidence that they have only scored 1 league goal between them and it's not just because they are 'shit'.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Mucca Mad Boys not could have signed proven L2 goalscorer should have . If McNulty had got injured early we would have been up shit street because the forwards we have on our books and we have plenty would not have got his tally if they were all playing another area where Robins cocked up plenty of quantity no quality.

Jodi Jones was on for about 10 goals at least this season. Andreu averages about 10-15 goals a season - that’s about 20 goals gone missing. Remember, MR’s favoured formation in the summer was 4-2-3-1. We’ve also had Nazon who scored goals and I think JCH will turn out to be a good signing too.

One thing that irks me about a fair few people on this forum, is that there’s this naive assumption that teams can just stockpile ‘proven goalscorers’.

We’ve done well in the transfer market!

 

[capel & collindridge]

Finishing outwith the play-offs is unacceptable in such a God damn poor league, but horrendous injuries to our 2 best players can't be ruled out as factors in that. It took Pompey a few tries, but they were fan owned and had enough optimism around the club for people to keep going. That just does not exist with us. The mantle of worst league finish in the club's history awaits.

Haven't read the rest of this thread, but we can finish in the top three and it could still be our worst league finish. Would that bother you? Wouldn't bother me.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Haven't read the rest of this thread, but we can finish in the top three and it could still be our worst league finish. Would that bother you? Wouldn't bother me.

Of course not, but to finish outside the top 7 of this horrendous league would make the team worthy of the name 'worst of all time' (in our league history). I don't think that will happen, our home form should be sufficient to keep us in there, but if it does then I'd feel worse about that than getting relegated into here in the first place.

 

[Adge]

Crowds will decline. There will be offers for mcnulty and it’s unlikely Bayliss will stay. It’s suggested we’ve over estimated on budget this season.

We will still have Beavon and Biamou though.

And Haynes and Burge too boot.

 

[itsabuzzard]

So the owners have employed a useless manager then. Is that what you’re saying? Maybe we can blame the board instead? Who employed them?

I don’t agree that Robins isn’t a good productive manager and I’ll tell you why. He’s had to adapt the whole team to deal with the Tony Andrews injury and to an even larger extent JJ, he’s also had to do this while trying to get MM firing on all cylinders and nurture MB from a hard working striker to one who can find the net while adapting to the pro game.

He might not get every decision correct every game but then which manager does? Ferguson was one game away from the boot before going on to be one of the greatest managers if not the greatest in Man U’s history. If you’d have been in charge he would never have got that opportunity and all that history would have been lost.

Tony Andrews?

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