Adge
Well-Known Member
They would have done the job expected.
Liam Kelly = (6 Viewers)
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Tommo72
Well-Known Member
I think Kelly was set up to fail a bit and came back too early but I agree he has been poor.
However, I remember some games not so long ago when he was excellent so I disagree with some of the comments. He has a place in the team but his effectiveness is Obvs dependent on others fulfilling their roles too and Kelly isn’t the most ambitious in the world...
He must get the basics right though and like so many others recently he hasn’t.
However, I remember some games not so long ago when he was excellent so I disagree with some of the comments. He has a place in the team but his effectiveness is Obvs dependent on others fulfilling their roles too and Kelly isn’t the most ambitious in the world...
He must get the basics right though and like so many others recently he hasn’t.
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
Zero goals, and off the top of my head one assist?, isnt good enough from a central midfielder whos played over 25 games this season in all competitions.
Even Doyle who arguably plays deeper than Kelly has three goals and more assists. I think most would have thought Kelly would have contributed a bit more.
Even Doyle who arguably plays deeper than Kelly has three goals and more assists. I think most would have thought Kelly would have contributed a bit more.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
He has 0 goals and 3 assists in 20 games in all competitions
Michael Doyle has 3 goals and 2 assists in 35 games in all competitions
Tom Bayliss has 2 goals and 1 assist in 14 games in all competitions
Michael Doyle has 3 goals and 2 assists in 35 games in all competitions
Tom Bayliss has 2 goals and 1 assist in 14 games in all competitions
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Surely he can't do that without Doyle shoring up the midfield.
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
Slight correction, Liam Kelly has played 22 in all competitions, 21 in League and 1 fa cup.
Can’t go by Wiki.
Still zero goals isn’t good enough. I can remember assist, brilliant through ball to Nazon vs Carlisle. Can’t remember others.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
It was definitely his corner for Grimmer's goal at Grimsby. It's pretty weird to be discussing the attacking output of a defensive midfielder though when we have been lacking goals all over the pitch. I wonder whether Cambridge fans are lamenting Gary Deegan's 0 goals in the league this season.
First half of the season Kelly was clearly instructed to sit deep and drop into right back whenever Grimmer got forward. The only time he's ever given a bit more licence is in the 2nd half and in games we are chasing, by their nature then teams are deep and holding out for a win. It's the same as Biamou being asked to play as a deep defensive target man. The debate should be over Robins negative tactics not the inhibited performances of individuals that they produce.
First half of the season Kelly was clearly instructed to sit deep and drop into right back whenever Grimmer got forward. The only time he's ever given a bit more licence is in the 2nd half and in games we are chasing, by their nature then teams are deep and holding out for a win. It's the same as Biamou being asked to play as a deep defensive target man. The debate should be over Robins negative tactics not the inhibited performances of individuals that they produce.
D
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I'd wonder if they're lamenting the existence of Gary Deegan as a footballer.
Gary deegan that embarrassingly called him self pit bull to try and earn a reputation but turned out to be a light lunch with the brain cell of a nat?
Adge
Well-Known Member
Not just him-the Telegraph wheeled out the ole “Pitbull” headline whenever they could aswell. Must have believed in the hype too. Embarrassing.
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
Your quite right. It also appears to me hes lacking confidence to shoot now when earlier in season we would see him let rip from ridiculous positions. Remember the Cambridge game away he was taking ridiculous shots from 40 yards out. Then again at Luton stand out memory he almost scored from halfway line I think it hit Crossbar, almost catching keeper out.
The key earlier on in the season was he was looking up for opportunities to shoot/score.
HEs not doing that anymore.
thekidfromstrettoncamp
Well-Known Member
As I have said somewhere else on the forum I think Doyle playing alongside him made him look good now he is on his own in the D M position we are seeing how ordinary he is.
SkyBlueScottie
Well-Known Member
He played very well last night.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
He did. That's the best he's played in a long, long time. Prior to his injury at Lincoln away he got forward much more than he has since coming back and last night was more like the Liam Kelly of old.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
*checks thread*
steve82
Well-Known Member
Tidy workman like performance today.
Stepping up at the right time we need a midfield general
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Esoterica
Well-Known Member
You're far too clever to go out on such a limb!*checks thread*
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
My internet must have been down. Only explanation for me not exposing my idiocy.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Wasn't tidy or workman like. Absolute battle first half and then took control of the match 2nd half. Got whacked by Doyle's most significant contribution and then stuck his bleeding head on a couple more vital clearances. Does the work for 2 and wins the ball to allow Bayliss to win matches, while before Bayliss was doing Doyle's running.
steve82
Well-Known Member
Wasn't tidy or workman like. Absolute battle first half and then took control of the match 2nd half. Got whacked by Doyle's most significant contribution and then stuck his bleeding head on a couple more vital clearances. Does the work for 2 and wins the ball to allow Bayliss to win matches, while before Bayliss was doing Doyle's running.
Kelly was excellent today but I disagree, Bayliss isn’t doing enough himself off the ball and with it over the 90 mins. Look at today for instance.
Kelly did the running, dirty work and took the bruises. Bayliss took 70 mins to make the first telling interception. Made 5/6 searching balls tops which is good, a unfortunate shot that wouldn’t drop quick enough but shy’d away too often. His twin from afar Westbrook showed for more at throw ins and in play on his debut.
I’d want to see more against a Southend side who rarely troubled us.
I stand by my opinion I feel we can get a good deal from his sale to put balance in the side.
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Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I disagree strongly, as I did with the notion selling Willis last season. If I’m wrong, I do apologise, but I’m sure we had this debate around Willis and looking at where we are now, it’s fair to say that not selling Willis was undoubtedly the right choice.
You’re presenting the options as binary, whether by accident or design. It appears that you’re making the point that to get more balance in the team, we need to sell Bayliss. But, that’s not the case at this moment in time. We don’t have to rush into signing a load of players to improve the team and this is a process that can take an extra 2-4 windows.
I don’t think Westbrook showed more than Bayliss at all. Frankly, Westbrook didn’t stand out today and was pretty steady, and his blocked shot attempt was a decent effort, but that’s about it. Bayliss takes risks, and the trade off of that is making a few mistakes. There was that one occasion today where we spun out around the half way line, glided through about 2-3 players only to give the ball away, frustratingly. But, the assist for Hiwula’s goal today was top class, and handed it on a plate. Frankly, he’s won us the last two games off the back of mixed performance — put that one into perspective! We’re not going to get better quality than that and he’s only going to improve over the next 2-3 seasons.
I don’t like the way some sections of the fan base have turned on him a bit. He’s certainly had a bit of stick going his way the last 2-4 home games and it’s unwarranted. He’s not played particularly well, but who was during our bout of bad form? He’s 19 and still learning his trade, he’ll make mistakes. In my view, when people overhype players like they did with Bayliss last season, they’re going to get disappointed when they aren’t as effective in a higher league. I never liked the Maddison comparison or saying he was better than Maddison because the latter cut his teeth in L1, not L2.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
His defensive anticipation is very good as well, senses danger and covers gaps.Wasn't tidy or workman like. Absolute battle first half and then took control of the match 2nd half. Got whacked by Doyle's most significant contribution and then stuck his bleeding head on a couple more vital clearances. Does the work for 2 and wins the ball to allow Bayliss to win matches, while before Bayliss was doing Doyle's running.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Wasn't tidy or workman like. Absolute battle first half and then took control of the match 2nd half. Got whacked by Doyle's most significant contribution and then stuck his bleeding head on a couple more vital clearances. Does the work for 2 and wins the ball to allow Bayliss to win matches, while before Bayliss was doing Doyle's running.
Personally, I’d field Doyle and Kelly in the middle going forward. Thomas and Bayliss on the flanks because Hiwula is playing really well up front. Bayliss having more space out wide and license to roam off his wing (as Shipley did today) could benefit his game.
steve82
Well-Known Member
I’m not one for hiding away yes I did put the suggestion forward on should we cash in on Willis when we was building our L2 squad and buy a proven striker in James Collins or other proven players with promotion in mind at the 1st attempt. Luckily we achieved that
I felt we could wheel and deal on his value as he was a luxury for L2 who upon relegation held the title of the most valuable asset we had but who was capable of being bullied by the target men that L2 is littered with and at that point had only 12 months left in his deal.
However MR was well backed financially for L2, so he stayed and it’s turned out L2 was the best thing to happen to Willis just like Burge as he developed into a solid defender and showing it now in L1.
It was and is a case of horses for courses, and looking at players who are a luxury to have at this level who we can wheel and deal with to again reach that next level and the same applies now.
It’s not personal against certain players from me and they retain the backing and support over the 90 mins from me and hate the idea of people verbally digging them out at games they attend.
It’s not right or going to help the outcome of the game to be on a players back moaning at every minor error
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Terry_dactyl
Well-Known Member
I think both Bayliss and Shipley’s (sounds like solicitors) preferred position is centre mid.
I think it’s time we started to look beyond Doyle as our midfield general. I’m sure he can still play for us and have good games but his lack of mobility will hamper us in the longer term. Kelly and Bayliss can start to nurture their partnership.
I had hoped Ogogo would be the one to do this...
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
The issue I have with the scenario you’re suggesting is that it rarely comes off. Selling your best asset in order to bring in multiple ‘good’ players rarely works IMO. Peterborough have been doing it for years and have barely come close to getting out of League One.
Plus look at us this season. We sold McNulty and whilst our league position is solid, i’d happily replace the majority of players that were brought in come the summer.
A lot of fans seem to find fault with Bayliss because they expect the world from him and like you said that is unfair but it comes with the territory unfortunately as he hasn’t been playing well.
But, isn’t that the reason why we shouldn’t sell him in jan? He’s our best asset but his stock will rise and fall based on his form. You wouldn’t sell stock at its lowest price would you. So why would you sell Bayliss at a price lower than his actual worth? Obviously we’d never accept anything less than a huge offer but realistically no club is going to offer what we want due to the reasons I’ve laid out. Regardless that’s a different topic for a different thread.
My issue is, is that taking the view of selling the likes of Willis/Bayliss to bring in ‘better’ or more ‘good’ players is completely oversimplifying the work and effort that goes into recruitment. It’s simply not as easy as that so it’s a pretty huge risk. E.g. selling McNulty and ending up with two pretty poor strikers and an OK one. Hence, why I’ve always taken issue with Peterborough’s model as from a footballing perspective it’s crap.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
After this season, Doyle cannot still be a starter, I'd be happy for him to be a player-coach and having a bit-part role, but we need a starting CM if we're looking to be in and around the playoffs or more.
Right now, with Thomas injured and we're light on the flanks, it's natural we should shift Bayliss on the right with Doyle and Kelly in middle. One thing I've noticed is that both Kelly and Doyle get caught out on the ball in our third when our midfield and fullbacks push forward, perhaps Doyle and Kelly in the middle gives them options. He wasn't on for long yesterday, but I liked the look of Doyle and Kelly in the middle. As for Shipley, he's not really staked a claim to start in the middle in my view, I say that as a fan of Shipley who is underrated, in my view.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
I think when we are watching games our emotions all cloud our rantings at certain players, the likes of Bayliss and Shipley to name but 2 are still younger than some posters kids and are playing lower tier professional football, they will do some good things and they will do some fucking stupid things which frustrate the hell out of us but remember they are young 'youths' trying their best for 'our' team and probably caring a lot more about CCFC than a lot of the senior pro's here because they have been here since an early age.
Kelly seems back to his best atm long may it continue
Kelly seems back to his best atm long may it continue
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
We all want what's best for the team so I won't criticise anyone for that. But, with all due respect, I do think you lack foresight now as you did then.
We're 9th now, our results against the top 6 (albeit mainly at home) suggests we can mix it with the best in this division. So, for me, instead of getting rid of anyone we don't have to, we should be looking to build on what we have. I do agree that we need to sign more players, but I'd rather sign a few in January, to plug a hole or two and then work on really strengthening in the summer. Bayliss is not a luxury, the guy has won our last two games without playing particularly well. At 19, he's a player who will improve and become more consistent and if this club is serious about getting promoted to the Championship, we keep a hold of him unless there's an insane offer come in for him.
To provide a bit of context, we've gone from the bottom of League 1to 9th in two years with a season in L2 sandwiched in between. We had to gut the team when we got relegated and had to add a lot of quality when we got promoted despite losing our best goal scorer. The speed at which Robins has achieved this is staggering and for people suggesting we should be in the playoffs as a minimum requirement completely lack any context or foresight in my view. Playoffs in a possibility, but the more likely outcome is top half.
Terry_dactyl
Well-Known Member
I’d probably agree with your assessment of Shipley but might also say that if he’s doing ‘ok’ on the wing, would he not do better in his preferred role? Tbh I don’t think I’d be keen for him to start there at the moment.
I really like Doyle but I think there’s an argument for trying to build anew while we aren’t under a massive amount of pressure. It doesn’t look like we’ll be going down (I hated typing that) and the team looked like it needed freshening-up. I think that Playing him week-in-week out is restricting us to playing a certain way.
steve82
Well-Known Member
Both of you have put forward very good well thought constructive counter opinions to evaluate.
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