The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (21 Viewers)

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Name some positives then proper ones. I've asked several times but no-ones answered.

Stop deflecting.

What is more negative, Brexit itself, or stubborn remain voters?

You're the second to fail to answer the question, which says it all.

 

---

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Just spoke to Aer Lingus Germany. They say their flights to the USA go from Shannon and Dublin and they send their clients from Germany to Ireland to get to USA. Won’t effect them as they don’t fly London USA. As Tony says Aer Lingus may get more passengers from GB if carriers cannot comply with the bilateral agreement.

Why fly to the USA from Germany via Ireland?

No one in their right mind would do it.

 

[martcov]

Why fly to the USA from Germany via Ireland?

No one in their right mind would do it.

How do you think Germans get to the USA with Aer Lingus?

 

[martcov]

Stop deflecting.

What is more negative, Brexit itself, or stubborn remain voters?

You're the second to fail to answer the question, which says it all.

What is the probem with leavers? They can never tell us real benefits of leaving. OK, I'll let you have your blue passports if it humors you, but apart from slogans such as "regaining our sovereignity" which we had, "control of our borders" - which we had moreso than,say, Schengen countries, "global Britain" - which we were a few years ago, especially with the "cool Britannia" phase, "make our own trade deals" - why? It is unlikely we will get better than with the EU, etc etc., what are the benefits? You say that remainers are stubborn, but it is more like you are unable to show us any benefits. There are plenty of disadvantages, we have mentioned enough on here. Up until now none of you have come up with a convincing reason which can be shown to give us a definite advantage over being in the EU. Even sailing into the sunset has been revised by all but the most starry eyed ( KoK ). We now have to face up to "hard facts" and " life will be different" and there will be some austerity according to the government. Sounds negative to me and they are the people in charge of leaving. A far cry from straight after the referendum. Perhaps your question should be "what is more negative, Brexit itself, or the people in charge of it?"

 

[martcov]

It’s not against our interests and he js a c**t

Oh really? How is sailing into a glorious sunset going? Country behind Brexit? Negotiations going well? Tories leading the polls for the forthcoming municipal elections? People pointing out what we have achieved so far?

Or is it a total cock up exposing how unprepared we were? Until you can point out the benefits in "non-slogan" English, then I will take it that things are not going to plan and we will be worse off.

 

[clint van damme]

Stop deflecting.

What is more negative, Brexit itself, or stubborn remain voters?

You're the second to fail to answer the question, which says it all.

Name something to be positive about. Or are you just asking people to be positive about nothing?
And your question doesn't make sense, remain voters are negative because they think brexit will have a negative impact on the country. It's like saying what's more negative, standing in dog shit or moaning about standing in dog shit.

Tell me why that's an incorrect point of view, sell brexit to me. If it's so good it should be easy.

 

[skybluetony176]

Already preparing? They've been advertising these sorts of flights for years. It's a commercial decision Tony - Ireland itself is a small market so clearly they will advertise being the only place in the EU that currently has US preclearance and will want to fill those big planes going across the Atlantic. I don't imagine that ultimately BA will be that bothered, as BA technically owns Aer Lingus anyway through its merger with Iberia.

Can’t say I’ve heard or seen them advertising it before they started advertising it on Absolute Radio recently. Not saying it’s not a service they’ve offered for a while or always offered, just wasn’t aware of it until recently.

 

[Sick Boy]

Stop deflecting.

What is more negative, Brexit itself, or stubborn remain voters?

You're the second to fail to answer the question, which says it all.

Hahaha classic!

 

[skybluetony176]

Why fly to the USA from Germany via Ireland?

No one in their right mind would do it.

It’s brexit. If brexit was positive the government would have some proper policies on it rather than two sound bites. 1) out means out 2) everyone needs to be positive.

We’ve learned from the Irish border issue out could mean a number of things. Everyone needs to be positive is just lazy politics that’s and attempt to divert negativity from brexit onto remain voters. The government can’t sell a positive on brexit for a very simple reason. They can’t find one.

Maybe you could name one, just one and then explain why it’s positive.

 

[Sick Boy]

That's the thing, it's always going to be fault of someone else, whether it be remainers or the EU, never themselves

 

[SkyblueBazza]

How do you think Germans get to the USA with Aer Lingus?

The real question is why would they want to. Thought everything was hunky-dory over there in Germany?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It’s brexit. If brexit was positive the government would have some proper policies on it rather than two sound bites. 1) out means out 2) everyone needs to be positive.

We’ve learned from the Irish border issue out could mean a number of things. Everyone needs to be positive is just lazy politics that’s and attempt to divert negativity from brexit onto remain voters. The government can’t sell a positive on brexit for a very simple reason. They can’t find one.

Maybe you could name one, just one and then explain why it’s positive.

The Government doesn't need to publicise it's policy on Brexit - it needs to negotiate the best deal it can. The Government(whichever political persuasion it might be) is well used to negative press & simplistic accusations of them not knowing what they're doing.
The simple fact is (& it has been referred to at least twice on this thread) that I'd you openly & honestly say what you want from negotiations...you will end up with less unless you expect nothing. So why would they share what they would happily expect?!

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[SkyblueBazza]

I’m pointing out that an Irish carrier is already preparing to gain should there be in impact on U.K. carriers that fly to the US such as BA and Virgin and also IS carriers that fly to the U.K.. The Aerlingus prices are already attractive if you don’t mind going via Dublin. If U.K. carriers have to increase prices that will look only more attractive and if they have to fly via an EU hub as is being suggested that will make them more attractive again.

Seems Aerlingus has done their homework and have started preparing for the opportunity gain passenger numbers.

Yes...and they may find once everything has settled that they are out of pocket thanks to wasted ads etc. If the UK carriers are perceived to become negatively affected...some alternative or increased charges will come into play for AL to fly into the UK...it will all balance out in the end

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[skybluetony176]

The Government doesn't need to publicise it's policy on Brexit - it needs to negotiate the best deal it can. The Government(whichever political persuasion it might be) is well used to negative press & simplistic accusations of them not knowing what they're doing.
The simple fact is (& it has been referred to at least twice on this thread) that I'd you openly & honestly say what you want from negotiations...you will end up with less unless you expect nothing. So why would they share what they would happily expect?!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Isn’t saying what you want the basis of negotiations?

Q) what do you want?

A) not telling you.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

What is the probem with leavers? They can never tell us real benefits of leaving. OK, I'll let you have your blue passports if it humors you, but apart from slogans such as "regaining our sovereignity" which we had, "control of our borders" - which we had moreso than,say, Schengen countries, "global Britain" - which we were a few years ago, especially with the "cool Britannia" phase, "make our own trade deals" - why? It is unlikely we will get better than with the EU, etc etc., what are the benefits? You say that remainers are stubborn, but it is more like you are unable to show us any benefits. There are plenty of disadvantages, we have mentioned enough on here. Up until now none of you have come up with a convincing reason which can be shown to give us a definite advantage over being in the EU. Even sailing into the sunset has been revised by all but the most starry eyed ( KoK ). We now have to face up to "hard facts" and " life will be different" and there will be some austerity according to the government. Sounds negative to me and they are the people in charge of leaving. A far cry from straight after the referendum. Perhaps your question should be "what is more negative, Brexit itself, or the people in charge of it?"

That's the third remainer dodging the question. I think we are seeing a pretty guilty picture being painted here.

 

[clint van damme]

That's the third remainer dodging the question. I think we are seeing a pretty guilty picture being painted here.

I've asked for some positives 3 times and not had an answer, and I did answer your question, while at the same time trying to explain to you how stupid it was.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Isn’t saying what you want the basis of negotiations?

Q) what do you want?

A) not telling you.

Interesting thought. If you ever need a new nickname - something like 'Salesman's dream' might be one to consider

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[clint van damme]

Interesting thought. If you ever need a new nickname - something like 'Salesman's dream' might be one to consider

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

oh the irony.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I've asked for some positives 3 times and not had an answer, and I did answer your question, while at the same time trying to explain to you how stupid it was.

I'll try and give you an answer Clint.....but I've had my first drink in over a fortnight so apologies in advance if it becomes a bit of a drunken rant.....
I could offer you the obvious immediate positives......regaining sovereignty, control of our own laws and borders, the approx 10bn annual net saving etc. Etc. But for me personally the vote was far more ideological than a simple list of predominantly economic pros and cons......but frankly I'm sick and tired of the brexit debate being condensed down to a simple short-term economic argument.

I vote GREEN. I have done so since the late 1980s.
I don't subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful......and frankly I'm a little puzzled by anyone who still believes that massive un-democratic trading blocks primarily serving the needs and desires of the multinationals and banks over the real needs and demands of citizens are the way forward.......its like 2008 never happened.

now obviously I never voted for anything that has happened since the referendum as I've stated previously on this thread.....i voted leave, not Tory....im not fucking stupid.

I voted against the eu because I believe it doesn't serve the people and it certainly doesn't respect the democratic wishes of it's sovereign state members......by leaving such a farcical quango...one which we pay way too much towards despite having way too little influence, it at least offers future British generations....my kids.....the chance to shape futures and influence their own prospects.
Brexit doesn't mean we build a wall.......even tusk recognises that.....but it does give us back our rights to self govern....the opportunity to not kowtow to the corporate machine.

Now, whether we take this opportunity is a bigger question......and one which I currently fear has been hijacked by the opportunist Tories....but we can at least vote for a new government.....outside the eu, we, in principle at least, have the opportunity to make the world a better place.....

But this is where my leap of faith falters....with the great British public......as my faith in their collective ability to do the right thing has been badly shaken over the years.

I marched against the war in Iraq......shoulder to shoulder with mates who I believed were principled and morally sound......only to witness several of them vote for that murderous c**t blair at the very next election purely out of self interest......all of a sudden the 3/4 million innocent dead Iraqis were worth fuck all compared to retaining the cushy lifestyle of the middle class white collar public sector worker......

.....and now these same morally bankrupt sheep have the audacity to criticise me for sticking to my principles.....for voting against an oppressive un-democratic corporatist cartel that exploits and holds hostage both the poorer nation states and the regions poorest citizens.....and then hands us the bill.

Teresa may is a nightmare. Things will almost definitely get worse in the short term.....but the biggest and most important positive of brexit is that it still, in theory at least, provides the citizens of the UK the chance to change and shape thingsfor the better.......and maybe one day we will.

Brexit offers opportunity for change.......something we need to, but probably wont grasp.....but its an opportunity for change that simply isnt available by preserving the status quo of eu sponsored corporate exploitation and environmental vandalism.

......sorry.....its a drunken rant ain't it.

 

[Sick Boy]

I'll try and give you an answer Clint.....but I've had my first drink in over a fortnight so apologies in advance if it becomes a bit of a drunken rant.....
I could offer you the obvious immediate positives......regaining sovereignty, control of our own laws and borders, the approx 10bn annual net saving etc. Etc. But for me personally the vote was far more ideological than a simple list of predominantly economic pros and cons......but frankly I'm sick and tired of the brexit debate being condensed down to a simple short-term economic argument.

I vote GREEN. I have done so since the late 1980s.
I don't subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful......and frankly I'm a little puzzled by anyone who still believes that massive un-democratic trading blocks primarily serving the needs and desires of the multinationals and banks over the real needs and demands of citizens are the way forward.......its like 2008 never happened.

now obviously I never voted for anything that has happened since the referendum as I've stated previously on this thread.....i voted leave, not Tory....im not fucking stupid.

I voted against the eu because I believe it doesn't serve the people and it certainly doesn't respect the democratic wishes of it's sovereign state members......by leaving such a farcical quango...one which we pay way too much towards despite having way too little influence, it at least offers future British generations....my kids.....the chance to shape futures and influence their own prospects.
Brexit doesn't mean we build a wall.......even tusk recognises that.....but it does give us back our rights to self govern....the opportunity to not kowtow to the corporate machine.

Now, whether we take this opportunity is a bigger question......and one which I currently fear has been hijacked by the opportunist Tories....but we can at least vote for a new government.....outside the eu, we, in principle at least, have the opportunity to make the world a better place.....

But this is where my leap of faith falters....with the great British public......as my faith in their collective ability to do the right thing has been badly shaken over the years.

I marched against the war in Iraq......shoulder to shoulder with mates who I believed were principled and morally sound......only to witness several of them vote for that murderous c**t blair at the very next election purely out of self interest......all of a sudden the 3/4 million innocent dead Iraqis were worth fuck all compared to retaining the cushy lifestyle of the middle class white collar public sector worker......

.....and now these same morally bankrupt sheep have the audacity to criticise me for sticking to my principles.....for voting against an oppressive un-democratic corporatist cartel that exploits and holds hostage both the poorer nation states and the regions poorest citizens.....and then hands us the bill.

Teresa may is a nightmare. Things will almost definitely get worse in the short term.....but the biggest and most important positive of brexit is that it still, in theory at least, provides the citizens of the UK the chance to change and shape thingsfor the better.......and maybe one day we will.

Brexit offers opportunity for change.......something we need to, but probably wont grasp.....but its an opportunity for change that simply isnt available by preserving the status quo of eu sponsored corporate exploitation and environmental vandalism.

......sorry.....its a drunken rant ain't it.

Come on, UK parliament has always been Sovereign and a lot of leavers' arguements have been based the opposite being true and EU being akin to a dictaroship.

If anything if the Tories get their way we will have neoliberalism on steroids. The left-wing Brexit that you seem to want is never going to happen in this country and will lead to more and more regulations being slashed and a race to the bottom, IMO.

 

[dutchman]

It’s brexit. If brexit was positive the government would have some proper policies on it

Why would they have some proper policies on it when they were opposed to Brexit from the start, campaigned against it and made absolutely no provision in advance for the Leave vote winning the referendum?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Can’t say I’ve heard or seen them advertising it before they started advertising it on Absolute Radio recently. Not saying it’s not a service they’ve offered for a while or always offered, just wasn’t aware of it until recently.

They have always advertised it from Manchester, I looked at it to go to New York recently but couldn't make it pay. Aer Lingus being owned by an Anglo-Spanish company could make life awkward for them post Brexit depending on how the ownership is shared between Britain and Spain

 

[martcov]

The real question is why would they want to. Thought everything was hunky-dory over there in Germany?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Holidays?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'll try and give you an answer Clint.....but I've had my first drink in over a fortnight so apologies in advance if it becomes a bit of a drunken rant.....
I could offer you the obvious immediate positives......regaining sovereignty, control of our own laws and borders, the approx 10bn annual net saving etc. Etc. But for me personally the vote was far more ideological than a simple list of predominantly economic pros and cons......but frankly I'm sick and tired of the brexit debate being condensed down to a simple short-term economic argument.

I vote GREEN. I have done so since the late 1980s.
I don't subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful......and frankly I'm a little puzzled by anyone who still believes that massive un-democratic trading blocks primarily serving the needs and desires of the multinationals and banks over the real needs and demands of citizens are the way forward.......its like 2008 never happened.

now obviously I never voted for anything that has happened since the referendum as I've stated previously on this thread.....i voted leave, not Tory....im not fucking stupid.

I voted against the eu because I believe it doesn't serve the people and it certainly doesn't respect the democratic wishes of it's sovereign state members......by leaving such a farcical quango...one which we pay way too much towards despite having way too little influence, it at least offers future British generations....my kids.....the chance to shape futures and influence their own prospects.
Brexit doesn't mean we build a wall.......even tusk recognises that.....but it does give us back our rights to self govern....the opportunity to not kowtow to the corporate machine.

Now, whether we take this opportunity is a bigger question......and one which I currently fear has been hijacked by the opportunist Tories....but we can at least vote for a new government.....outside the eu, we, in principle at least, have the opportunity to make the world a better place.....

But this is where my leap of faith falters....with the great British public......as my faith in their collective ability to do the right thing has been badly shaken over the years.

I marched against the war in Iraq......shoulder to shoulder with mates who I believed were principled and morally sound......only to witness several of them vote for that murderous c**t blair at the very next election purely out of self interest......all of a sudden the 3/4 million innocent dead Iraqis were worth fuck all compared to retaining the cushy lifestyle of the middle class white collar public sector worker......

.....and now these same morally bankrupt sheep have the audacity to criticise me for sticking to my principles.....for voting against an oppressive un-democratic corporatist cartel that exploits and holds hostage both the poorer nation states and the regions poorest citizens.....and then hands us the bill.

Teresa may is a nightmare. Things will almost definitely get worse in the short term.....but the biggest and most important positive of brexit is that it still, in theory at least, provides the citizens of the UK the chance to change and shape thingsfor the better.......and maybe one day we will.

Brexit offers opportunity for change.......something we need to, but probably wont grasp.....but its an opportunity for change that simply isnt available by preserving the status quo of eu sponsored corporate exploitation and environmental vandalism.

......sorry.....its a drunken rant ain't it.

Some good points made nevertheless

 

[fernandopartridge]

Come on, UK parliament has always been Sovereign and a lot of leavers' arguements have been based the opposite being true and EU being akin to a dictaroship.

If anything if the Tories get their way we will have neoliberalism on steroids. The left-wing Brexit that you seem to want is never going to happen in this country and will lead to more and more regulations being slashed and a race to the bottom, IMO.

The EU is the embodiment of neo liberalism. If it isn't, please explain to me the rationale behind the Public Contracts Directives and Utilities Directives. Why does the EU insist is members sign up to these if it isn't about economic liberalism?

 

[Sick Boy]

The EU is the embodiment of neo liberalism. If it isn't, please explain to me the rationale behind the Public Contracts Directives and Utilities Directives. Why does the EU insist is members sign up to these if it isn't about economic liberalism?

I'm not saying it isn't, but what the Tories seem to have planned will be NL on steroids. As NW said before, more of us could get on board with a more left-wing Brexit, bit that doesn't look like happening any time soon.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'm not saying it isn't, but what the Tories seem to have planned will be NL on steroids. As NW said before, more of us could get on board with a more left-wing Brexit, bit that doesn't look like happening any time soon.

Aye but in the long term the Tories are permanently damaged by Brexit. The young generally voted to remain, they are less likely to vote for future Tory governments (some might change but many won't).
I want to vote for politicians who can't use the EU bogeyman argument against government policies.

 

[dutchman]

Aye but in the long term the Tories are permanently damaged by Brexit. The young generally voted to remain

Did they also vote for a monolithic euro superstate becuase that is what they would have eventually got if Remain had won?

 

[martcov]

Did they also vote for a monolithic euro superstate becuase that is what they would have eventually got if Remain had won?

How is a union of 28 countries in an organisation with a voting structure and voting rights going to become a monolithic super state? Even Juncker expressly denied this idea. No one wants a „monolithic superstate“.

 

[dutchman]

How is a union of 28 countries in an organisation with a voting structure and voting rights going to become a monolithic super state? Even Juncker expressly denied this idea. No one wants a „monolithic superstate“.

It's the ultimate aim of the EU and always has been.

 

[clint van damme]

I'll try and give you an answer Clint.....but I've had my first drink in over a fortnight so apologies in advance if it becomes a bit of a drunken rant.....
I could offer you the obvious immediate positives......regaining sovereignty, control of our own laws and borders, the approx 10bn annual net saving etc. Etc. But for me personally the vote was far more ideological than a simple list of predominantly economic pros and cons......but frankly I'm sick and tired of the brexit debate being condensed down to a simple short-term economic argument.

I vote GREEN. I have done so since the late 1980s.
I don't subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful......and frankly I'm a little puzzled by anyone who still believes that massive un-democratic trading blocks primarily serving the needs and desires of the multinationals and banks over the real needs and demands of citizens are the way forward.......its like 2008 never happened.

now obviously I never voted for anything that has happened since the referendum as I've stated previously on this thread.....i voted leave, not Tory....im not fucking stupid.

I voted against the eu because I believe it doesn't serve the people and it certainly doesn't respect the democratic wishes of it's sovereign state members......by leaving such a farcical quango...one which we pay way too much towards despite having way too little influence, it at least offers future British generations....my kids.....the chance to shape futures and influence their own prospects.
Brexit doesn't mean we build a wall.......even tusk recognises that.....but it does give us back our rights to self govern....the opportunity to not kowtow to the corporate machine.

Now, whether we take this opportunity is a bigger question......and one which I currently fear has been hijacked by the opportunist Tories....but we can at least vote for a new government.....outside the eu, we, in principle at least, have the opportunity to make the world a better place.....

But this is where my leap of faith falters....with the great British public......as my faith in their collective ability to do the right thing has been badly shaken over the years.

I marched against the war in Iraq......shoulder to shoulder with mates who I believed were principled and morally sound......only to witness several of them vote for that murderous c**t blair at the very next election purely out of self interest......all of a sudden the 3/4 million innocent dead Iraqis were worth fuck all compared to retaining the cushy lifestyle of the middle class white collar public sector worker......

.....and now these same morally bankrupt sheep have the audacity to criticise me for sticking to my principles.....for voting against an oppressive un-democratic corporatist cartel that exploits and holds hostage both the poorer nation states and the regions poorest citizens.....and then hands us the bill.

Teresa may is a nightmare. Things will almost definitely get worse in the short term.....but the biggest and most important positive of brexit is that it still, in theory at least, provides the citizens of the UK the chance to change and shape thingsfor the better.......and maybe one day we will.

Brexit offers opportunity for change.......something we need to, but probably wont grasp.....but its an opportunity for change that simply isnt available by preserving the status quo of eu sponsored corporate exploitation and environmental vandalism.

......sorry.....its a drunken rant ain't it.

that's an excellent post mate, and your vision of post Brexit Britain is one I could be very much on board with. As I have said in the past, I'm not a natural supporter of a federal Europe but see it as the much lesser of two evils.
Unfortunately, I don't believe we will end up with anything like the post Brexit Britain you describe but rather with a totalitarian liberal country where the totalitarianism applies to 95% of us and the liberal to the 5%.

You only have to look at what is happening with austerity, why he hits the vast majority of the population with wage contraction and cuts to the NHS and public services the elite keep getting richer. And they're not doing it through innovation and entrepreneurialism, they're doing it through skewing the system in their own favour.

And I would give my right arm for this to happen - "the opportunity to not kowtow to the corporate machine." But unfortunately, in my opinion, we will have to Kowtow to the corporate machine even more, including vultures of the American medical insurance giants.

Brexit could be great, but it's not for me with Boris, Rees mogg, IDF and their ilk leading the way.

 

[clint van damme]

That's the third remainer dodging the question. I think we are seeing a pretty guilty picture being painted here.

I answered your question, you still haven't answered mine. Save yourself time and copy and paste Jimmyhillsfanclub post, and make sure you thank him!

 

[martcov]

that's an excellent post mate, and your vision of post Brexit Britain is one I could be very much on board with. As I have said in the past, I'm not a natural supporter of a federal Europe but see it as the much lesser of two evils.
Unfortunately, I don't believe we will end up with anything like the post Brexit Britain you describe but rather with a totalitarian liberal country where the totalitarianism applies to 95% of us and the liberal to the 5%.

You only have to look at what is happening with austerity, why he hits the vast majority of the population with wage contraction and cuts to the NHS and public services the elite keep getting richer. And they're not doing it through innovation and entrepreneurialism, they're doing it through skewing the system in their own favour.

And I would give my right arm for this to happen - "the opportunity to not kowtow to the corporate machine." But unfortunately, in my opinion, we will have to Kowtow to the corporate machine even more, including vultures of the American medical insurance giants.

Brexit could be great, but it's not for me with Boris, Rees mogg, IDF and their ilk leading the way.

Yes, much better post than the usual repeating of Faragist, Mail or Express catchphrases.

Just I don’t agree with the conclusion of Brexit making it easier to make the world a better place. We had more power being one of the major players in a 500 million bloc. On our own we will 1) have years of poilitical disputes about Brexit, hemming governments work and economic progress, and 2) we will have to make deals with countries who know we are starting from scratch. Including such countries as Trump’s USA and Saudi Arabia. There won’t be much talk with them about human rights and making the world a better place. Just buying and selling military equipment and trade wars.

 

[shmmeee]

Stop deflecting.

What is more negative, Brexit itself, or stubborn remain voters?

You're the second to fail to answer the question, which says it all.

Uh Brexit itself.

I didn’t crash the value of the pound mate. And it won’t be me that shrinks our economy.

The fact you even think that’s a sensible question suggests you probably shouldn’t be allowed to make big decisions.

 

[shmmeee]

I'll try and give you an answer Clint.....but I've had my first drink in over a fortnight so apologies in advance if it becomes a bit of a drunken rant.....
I could offer you the obvious immediate positives......regaining sovereignty, control of our own laws and borders, the approx 10bn annual net saving etc. Etc. But for me personally the vote was far more ideological than a simple list of predominantly economic pros and cons......but frankly I'm sick and tired of the brexit debate being condensed down to a simple short-term economic argument.

I vote GREEN. I have done so since the late 1980s.
I don't subscribe to the idea that big is beautiful......and frankly I'm a little puzzled by anyone who still believes that massive un-democratic trading blocks primarily serving the needs and desires of the multinationals and banks over the real needs and demands of citizens are the way forward.......its like 2008 never happened.

now obviously I never voted for anything that has happened since the referendum as I've stated previously on this thread.....i voted leave, not Tory....im not fucking stupid.

I voted against the eu because I believe it doesn't serve the people and it certainly doesn't respect the democratic wishes of it's sovereign state members......by leaving such a farcical quango...one which we pay way too much towards despite having way too little influence, it at least offers future British generations....my kids.....the chance to shape futures and influence their own prospects.
Brexit doesn't mean we build a wall.......even tusk recognises that.....but it does give us back our rights to self govern....the opportunity to not kowtow to the corporate machine.

Now, whether we take this opportunity is a bigger question......and one which I currently fear has been hijacked by the opportunist Tories....but we can at least vote for a new government.....outside the eu, we, in principle at least, have the opportunity to make the world a better place.....

But this is where my leap of faith falters....with the great British public......as my faith in their collective ability to do the right thing has been badly shaken over the years.

I marched against the war in Iraq......shoulder to shoulder with mates who I believed were principled and morally sound......only to witness several of them vote for that murderous c**t blair at the very next election purely out of self interest......all of a sudden the 3/4 million innocent dead Iraqis were worth fuck all compared to retaining the cushy lifestyle of the middle class white collar public sector worker......

.....and now these same morally bankrupt sheep have the audacity to criticise me for sticking to my principles.....for voting against an oppressive un-democratic corporatist cartel that exploits and holds hostage both the poorer nation states and the regions poorest citizens.....and then hands us the bill.

Teresa may is a nightmare. Things will almost definitely get worse in the short term.....but the biggest and most important positive of brexit is that it still, in theory at least, provides the citizens of the UK the chance to change and shape thingsfor the better.......and maybe one day we will.

Brexit offers opportunity for change.......something we need to, but probably wont grasp.....but its an opportunity for change that simply isnt available by preserving the status quo of eu sponsored corporate exploitation and environmental vandalism.

......sorry.....its a drunken rant ain't it.

YOuve bought the propaganda hook line and sinker I’m afraid. Multinationals will have far more power in a post Brexit U.K. we will lose just as much sovereignty in all the trade deals we’ll need to set up. The Yanks already want to tell us how to define a Cornish pasty. And if you’re worried about corruption, handing a Tory government free reign over the country was possibly the worst thing you could’ve done.