Grendel
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t - they are a government - governments have to negotiate and deal with unpleasant people. It’s real world.
Individuals don’t have to be close personal friends with violent murderers.
Oh Jeremy Corbyn (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter torchomatic
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It doesn’t - they are a government - governments have to negotiate and deal with unpleasant people. It’s real world.
Individuals don’t have to be close personal friends with violent murderers.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Would you be defending Corbyn so much if he was the Tory leader?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the Tories and their voters. I have no time for murderous bigots on both sides of the argument. I've posted on here before about how the conflict impacted my own family personally.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I'm not defending him, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of it all.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy on here on defending someone because he is the Labour leader but having a go at Tories that are nowhere near as bad.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There is no hypocrisy.
Astute
Well-Known Member
My point is that someone with a very dodgy past should not be leader of the Labour party. He could become PM.
Would you like to point out where I have defended anyone? I have had a go at all of them. But only Corbyn has been defended.
So where is the hypocrisy?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I'm not calling you a hypocrite, I'm referring the Tories who went on about JC and the IRA but then get into get with a party like the DUP. You'd have thought their morals would have been more important than clinging onto power.
Astute
Well-Known Member
If Corbyn is still leader of Labour my vote will go to an independent or I will abstain.It looks like we know where your ballot is going to be crossed at the next election
Astute
Well-Known Member
MP's have morals? There are some good ones. But most are in it for what they can get out of it. And we are just the scum on their shoe. They only want to know us at election time.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
My MP is Peter Kyle who is excellent so he'd always get my vote. I'm increasingly worried about the power that Momentum is gaining within the party.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
As I said, my MP is great and I've met up with him to discuss concerns about Momentum and he has gone round knocking on doors during non election times as well.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Like I said there are some good ones. But I don't trust the majority of them.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Before Momentum, the Labour Party was being taken down the path of turning into the Tories with Progress et al. It has helped to restore a lot of the core labour values back into the party. I do agree there needs to be caution and any control needs to be tempered and keep representation as wide as possible.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
It's ridiculous when they talk about deselecting elected MPs that they don't like, like Peter Kyle for example.
At the moment they are also disregarding views of long-term Labour voters and will eventually cost the party votes. The UK is conservative with a small c, to get into power Labour can't go down the route of the unelected Momentum.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Equally ridiculous the other way however. The stupidist thing Labour did was force Corbyn into a corner. It's safe to say there's a mood for change in the country, and that means moving away from Blair's policies and era. I remain convinced Corbyn is only in charge because he ended up there, and because nobody wants to offer a viable left-leaning alternative. I also remain convinced that if instead of outright rebellion against him, his MPs had offered an alternative, he'd have stepped aside.
Instead they fought, and because of that they see Corbyn's supporters fight back. This, rather than policy or personality, is why the Conservatives win more elections, they know they need to present a certain face to the electorate to do so.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Fair and good points there and can't disagree
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Labour cannot go exclusively down the route of Momentum, but equally they have to offer a clear distinction from what the Conservatives offer.
Labour also need to show a united front, and there are some Labour MP's that do not desire a Lab government. They really need to decide if this is really the party for them.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Labour do not have to offer the opposite of everything that the Tories offer. But they do have to appeal to the man on the street. And then they have to keep up with the promises.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Ah so being alive at the time is a pre-requisite for knowing about the event? Must remind every historian going they're out of a job.
If he was close to terrorists report him to the police and let justice take its course. Wonder why nobody has done so when the evidence is so clear?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You clearly are not an historian and you are utterly clueless about the events and emotions at the time.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Nor are you...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
For the time period in discussion I do not have to be and urban myths need expelling.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Laughable.
Astute
Well-Known Member
As you know it wasn't illegal to be close to them.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No it isn’t. His comments about Russia in the 80’s and Reagan are absurd.
Also no one can understand what it was like living in the era of the IRA unless you were there. To make some smug comparison to governments selling arms to bad people (oddly most people who want arms are bad people) with an individual toadying up to mass murderers of innocent people is sixth form debating level.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Another good thing to happen in a couple of years. They are keeping thwir claws in as long as they can
Gove shares fishing deal 'disappointment'
Gove shares fishing deal 'disappointment'
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yes it is. On the one hand you attempt to discredit somebody, then bait and switch. Stock Grendel technique in action, and guess it's worth a few minutes, so crack on!
I'll give you one thing, you'd have been a fine relacement for Farage. Might have even stopped UKIP going bust.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
G thinks he actively supported the death of civilians. Think that's a criminal offence if proven?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Nobody knows what went on.
But the facts are he went to IRA funerals. He went to memorials to those from the IRA that died.
So how many funerals or memorials for even just the children that got murdered by the IRA? Yes not one. But you will still defend him to the hilt.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No it isn’t. He actively supported an organisation who killed British civilians. It’s not illegal to think Ian Huntley or Jimmy Saville were nice people.
That’s a more relevant comparison.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
US foreign policy of the time in question and the several decades before isn't difficult to understand though is it. Support anti-communist regimes and try to topple pro-Soviet ones. Is there any dispute of our support of the mujahideen in Afghanistan? Is there any question that Reagan and his predecessors didn't preoccupy themselves with this kind of interventionism? They lent weapons to the Afghans who then used them against us in 2001.
You also trivially dismiss our cosying up to war criminals because a chap in his mum's jumper met up with some Paddies. You just value British lives more than other lives.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Why does he want his own people dead?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Plenty support the British Army and won't hear a bad word said about them despite the fact they shot dead innocent British civilians at Bloody Sunday.