The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (45 Viewers)

[Sick Boy]

There's no way I'd eat American imported meat!! Not surprised their farmers are telling us it's safe, it'll just be a race to the bottom of standards here as well eventually.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Begs the question that is this why May isn’t interested in maintaining the customs union with the EU? Pretty sure if we remained in the customs union with the EU that would scupper the the import of inferior meat from the US into the U.K.

 

[skybluetony176]

it'll just be a race to the bottom of standards here as well eventually.

That will be almost inevitable so British farmers can compete.

 

[Grendel]

There's no way I'd eat American imported meat!! Not surprised their farmers are telling us it's safe, it'll just be a race to the bottom of standards here as well eventually.

Right

Accusations of cruelty at Italian farms that supply Parma ham pigs

 

[skybluetony176]

Right

Accusations of cruelty at Italian farms that supply Parma ham pigs

That would probably be good standards in the US. Only in Italy the EU have the powers to do something about it.

 

[Grendel]

That would probably be good standards in the US. Only in Italy the EU have the powers to do something about it.

The powers do nothing about it - that’s the point. Also as I’ve said before the us issue has nothing to do with animal welfare issues. Many Eu countries are in the top ten in terms of animal cruelty - it’s price protection - which is fine but let’s be honest about it.

 

[skybluetony176]

The powers do nothing about it - that’s the point. Also as I’ve said before the us issue has nothing to do with animal welfare issues. Many Eu countries are in the top ten in terms of animal cruelty - it’s price protection - which is fine but let’s be honest about it.

Cows that never leave a shed until they’re loaded on a trailer to go to slaughter having never walked on grass and grazed as Mother Nature intended is nothing to do with animal welfare issues? Haven’t you previously claimed to be very pro animal welfare including donating to animal welfare charities? That’s a very strange stance for someone that claims to have done all that. Is this going to be another classic case of Grendull duality where accept people killing innocent people so long as it’s “us” who have profited from the arms sale?

 

[clint van damme]

The powers do nothing about it - that’s the point. Also as I’ve said before the us issue has nothing to do with animal welfare issues. Many Eu countries are in the top ten in terms of animal cruelty - it’s price protection - which is fine but let’s be honest about it.

they also use certain steroids which are banned in the EU. How much more harmful they are than the permitted ones I wouldn't know.

 

[Sick Boy]

Right

Accusations of cruelty at Italian farms that supply Parma ham pigs

Inside the UK slaughterhouse where sheep have their throats hacked at and animals are thrown - Animal Aid

We should be combating this sort of thing, not going even lower.

 

[Grendel]

Inside the UK slaughterhouse where sheep have their throats hacked at and animals are thrown - Animal Aid

We should be combating this sort of thing, not going even lower.

And on our own we may be able to. It is well known in animal wellfare circles the EU regulations are entirely cosmetic and prosecution virtually impossible. Its actually absurd to even think that EU members care when a delicacy is consumption of force fed goose livers -- about the most cruel practice on earth

 

[Grendel]

Cows that never leave a shed until they’re loaded on a trailer to go to slaughter having never walked on grass and grazed as Mother Nature intended is nothing to do with animal welfare issues? Haven’t you previously claimed to be very pro animal welfare including donating to animal welfare charities? That’s a very strange stance for someone that claims to have done all that. Is this going to be another classic case of Grendull duality where accept people killing innocent people so long as it’s “us” who have profited from the arms sale?

You miss the point. I wouldn't eat it and I wouldn't eat crap from Europe either. The point is its not anything to do with welfare its protectionism and profit.

 

[skybluetony176]

You miss the point. I wouldn't eat it and I wouldn't eat crap from Europe either. The point is its not anything to do with welfare its protectionism and profit.

If you’re a seller maybe. As a consumer it’s about animal welfare. But yet again you’re happy to justify something that goes against the grain of your “morals” so long as you can find some sort of political gain from it.

 

[Grendel]

If you’re a seller maybe. As a consumer it’s about animal welfare. But yet again you’re happy to justify something that goes against the grain of your “morals” so long as you can find some sort of political gain from it.

What are you on about? 90% of consumers do not care about animal welfare unfortunately and to state the US farming methods are any worse than EU pig farming and goose brutality is nonsense. Its like Fred West claiming he was a more compassionate serial killer than Dennis Nielson as he buried his victims and didn't flush them down the toilet.

 

[skybluetony176]

And on our own we may be able to. It is well known in animal wellfare circles the EU regulations are entirely cosmetic and prosecution virtually impossible. Its actually absurd to even think that EU members care when a delicacy is consumption of force fed goose livers -- about the most cruel practice on earth

So we can’t enforce the EU standards at the moment but we will be able to enforce them when we leave? How’s that work?

 

[skybluetony176]

What are you on about? 90% of consumers do not care about animal welfare unfortunately and to state the US farming methods are any worse than EU pig farming and goose brutality is nonsense. Its like Fred West claiming he was a more compassionate serial killer than Dennis Nielson as he buried his victims and didn't flush them down the toilet.

Pig farming and force feeding geese in the EU is brutal, they also happen in the US and pig farming standards are worse again than the EU. Here’s the thing. I’m lucky enough to be able to afford locally sourced free range lamb, pork and beef that’s free ranged farmed to the highest standards and this goes for burgers, sausages and cuts of meat. Some people on the other hand don’t have that luxury and will buy the cheapest and others will have the luxury but choose not to take it because they don’t care where it comes from they just care about the price. Here’s where your duality comes in. At this moment in time their choice is of meat farmed to a certain standard which for the most part gets upheld. Now you’re advocating giving those consumers a choice of buying meat produce that’s farmed to a far lower standard again and you can bet your bottom dollar that if the EU can’t police our standards fully then neither can the US so chances are the bar is being lowered yet again. That’s what you’re championing while claiming to be a supporter of animal welfare and that is duality. Whether you buy it or not is irrelevant because as you yourself have pointed out people will and you’re championing this lowering of standards so you’re a contributor to it.

Your serial killer analogy is just waffle and bollocks also.

 

[Astute]

Begs the question that is this why May isn’t interested in maintaining the customs union with the EU? Pretty sure if we remained in the customs union with the EU that would scupper the the import of inferior meat from the US into the U.K.

So the EU will get a trade deal together with the USA and will not have to take food from them?

If the EU says it can be sold there us nothing we could do about it. At least we would get the choice.

I am totally against it. That is why I posted the link. I don't read something and work out if it looks good/bad against the EU/UK. I say it how it is.

Something else I disagree with is halal meat. They don't stun animals before slaughtering. But because it is inhumane everywhere else has to. There is nothing to say religiously that an animal shouldn't be stunned. But this is a different matter.

 

[Astute]

Inside the UK slaughterhouse where sheep have their throats hacked at and animals are thrown - Animal Aid

We should be combating this sort of thing, not going even lower.

But we are not allowed to. Halal meat has different rules.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It’s not the safety of the meat that bothers me it’s the way it’s farmed. US fields are full of GM crops that are harvested to feed cows that never leave the shed and then have to have all sorts of shit injected into them to make the meat marble like it would naturally if they were allowed to roam around fields once in a while.

No thanks. I’ll be avoiding US meat and anything that isn’t labelled to confirm it isn’t.

If you take this view, why did you have a go at me when I said we should ban Halal - which is very barbaric?

Double standards, and you won't be the only one on here.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I'm now about 99% veggie (have a burger when I'm pissed). Never used to be.

The idea of killing animals makes me extremely sad, so I gave it up. Feel a lot better for it all round actually.

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm now about 99% veggie (have a burger when I'm pissed). Never used to be.

The idea of killing animals makes me extremely sad, so I gave it up. Feel a lot better for it all round actually.

I have thinking about it doing it too. I was veggie for a couple of years as hated the idea of animals being killed. The whole industry as it is cruel and unnatural.

 

[Sick Boy]

If you take this view, why did you have a go at me when I said we should ban Halal - which is very barbaric?

Double standards, and you won't be the only one on here.

It should be banned, as should Kosher meat as well.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I have thinking about it doing it too. I was veggie for a couple of years as hated the idea of animals being killed. The whole industry as it is cruel and unnatural.

Exactly. As I've grown up and taken more responsibility for my actions it dawned on me that it was cruel and horrible. I didn't want to be a part of it.

I probably like animals more than humans!

 

[Grendel]

So we can’t enforce the EU standards at the moment but we will be able to enforce them when we leave? How’s that work?

Because we can have our own standards and can ban foie gras as an example

 

[Grendel]

Pig farming and force feeding geese in the EU is brutal, they also happen in the US and pig farming standards are worse again than the EU. Here’s the thing. I’m lucky enough to be able to afford locally sourced free range lamb, pork and beef that’s free ranged farmed to the highest standards and this goes for burgers, sausages and cuts of meat. Some people on the other hand don’t have that luxury and will buy the cheapest and others will have the luxury but choose not to take it because they don’t care where it comes from they just care about the price. Here’s where your duality comes in. At this moment in time their choice is of meat farmed to a certain standard which for the most part gets upheld. Now you’re advocating giving those consumers a choice of buying meat produce that’s farmed to a far lower standard again and you can bet your bottom dollar that if the EU can’t police our standards fully then neither can the US so chances are the bar is being lowered yet again. That’s what you’re championing while claiming to be a supporter of animal welfare and that is duality. Whether you buy it or not is irrelevant because as you yourself have pointed out people will and you’re championing this lowering of standards so you’re a contributor to it.

Your serial killer analogy is just waffle and bollocks also.

Tony I’ve explained to you several times this is nothing to do with lowering standards - the EU food council admitted on the chlorine chicken debate it has no hygiene issue as all. It’s about protect Eu prices to a level (which still has dreadful hygiene conditions?

I’ve explained 5 times now.

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony I’ve explained to you several times this is nothing to do with lowering standards - the EU food council admitted on the chlorine chicken debate it has no hygiene issue as all. It’s about protect Eu prices to a level (which still has dreadful hygiene conditions?

I’ve explained 5 times now.

Why do you keep coming back to chloroform chicken? That’s a process that happens after they die. I’m talking about the factory farming methods that happen in America and you know it but keep detracting to one point that’s irrelevant to the way that these animals are kept in when being raised.

You’re championing this Why factory farming is not just cruel – but also a threat to all life on the planet

Farm Animal Welfare

Why factory farming is not just cruel – but also a threat to all life on the planet

 

[Grendel]

Why do you keep coming back to chloroform chicken? That’s a process that happens after they die. I’m talking about the factory farming methods that happen in America and you know it but keep detracting to one point that’s irrelevant to the way that these animals are kept in when being raised.

You’re championing this Why factory farming is not just cruel – but also a threat to all life on the planet

Farm Animal Welfare

Why factory farming is not just cruel – but also a threat to all life on the planet

Because Tony factory farming and slaughter and cruelty is more prevalent in Europe - your notion that European animals lead some kind of utopian existence of green fields is absurd.

5 European countries regularly are in the top 10 list of cruelty to animals across the globe.

The pig farming industry in Denmark makes the cows existence in the us seem like paradise.

 

[skybluetony176]

Because Tony factory farming and slaughter and cruelty is more prevalent in Europe - your notion that European animals lead some kind of utopian existence of green fields is absurd.

5 European countries regularly are in the top 10 list of cruelty to animals across the globe.

The pig farming industry in Denmark makes the cows existence in the us seem like paradise.

I haven’t made out that farming in Europe offers some kind of utopia for animals. I don’t buy danish pork products and I haven’t denied any of the articles linked to European farming. You however seem to be in denial that farming standards however bad they are in the EU are worse in the US.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Because we can have our own standards and can ban foie gras as an example

We have higher standards than the EU generally. As with every post on here, the pro EU bunch come at it from the false position that its EU regulations that stop us racing to the bottom for everything. Forgetting that the UK started the animal welfare movement with the RSPCA.

You're right that the EU's sole objective is protectionism in this area, I don't really have a problem with that as farming is a big industry in Europe, just don't pretend it isn't!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I haven’t made out that farming in Europe offers some kind of utopia for animals. I don’t buy danish pork products and I haven’t denied any of the articles linked to European farming. You however seem to be in denial that farming standards however bad they are in the EU are worse in the US.

You think Halal is progressive.

You literally have no leg to stand on here.

 

[skybluetony176]

You think Halal is progressive.

You literally have no leg to stand on here.

Do I?

 

[Grendel]

I haven’t made out that farming in Europe offers some kind of utopia for animals. I don’t buy danish pork products and I haven’t denied any of the articles linked to European farming. You however seem to be in denial that farming standards however bad they are in the EU are worse in the US.

It isn’t worse according to any cruelty league I’ve seen - can you provide a link Tony?

 

[clint van damme]

are you vegetarian Grendel?
I've toyed with the idea of it. Haven't eaten meat for about 4 days but it's due to try to eat a bit healthier for a week or two rather than anything else.

 

[skybluetony176]

It isn’t worse according to any cruelty league I’ve seen - can you provide a link Tony?

Already done. Can you provide a link?

 

[Sick Boy]

are you vegetarian Grendel?
I've toyed with the idea of it. Haven't eaten meat for about 4 days but it's due to try to eat a bit healthier for a week or two rather than anything else.

I'm sure he must be after all of his lecturing and his focus on the Grand National. I am seriously considering it but I'd end up getting grief off the missus and be looked at like I had 2 heads in Italy.

 

[Grendel]

Already done. Can you provide a link?

Clearly I can but not a subjective one. I subscribe to CWF Tony and its campaigns focus on the appalling trade across Europe

10 Countries that are most cruel to animals