Court hearing delayed (5 Viewers)

[oucho]

Then maybe that would allow them to cut corporation tax a bit more.

10 years ago corporation tax was 30%, now it is 19%. We have the second lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries. Think we can see where our governments priorities lie.

I'm voting tomorrow in the hope of continuing such policies and hopefully more tax/spending cuts in the pipeline.

 

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[oucho]

I've said on here before Amazon et al need to be put on a level playing field with offline retailers. That sort of intervention would be abhorrent to the current government.

I tried explaining to a colleague how Amazon's "brilliance" was actually a disaster for everybody but they just couldn't grasp it

The difficulty is 'how?'. Such companies can easily move investment and domicile themselves according to the most cpmpetitve corp tax regime. Hence the need to be competitve but also push for a single global approach. Just as well the UK is increasing its policy cooperation internationally....oh wait

 

[clint van damme]

I'm voting tomorrow in the hope of continuing such policies and hopefully more tax/spending cuts in the pipeline.

why on earth would you welcome more spending cuts when they're causing so much misery? Even the governments own figures put deaths attributable to the cuts as over 2,000. with some estimates as high as 120,000.

 

[oucho]

why on earth would you welcome more spending cuts when they're causing so much misery? Even the governments own figures put deaths attributable to the cuts as over 2,000. with some estimates as high as 120,000.

Because to spend more would be to going back to having a current spending deficit, which is the road to national economic ruin. We need to run big budget surpluses for many years to pay off a big chumk of the national debt, otherwise the interest payments on the debt will continue to outrun the budgets of various government departments like education. We can't borrow to pay for day to day spending, when the next downturm inevitably comes it'll makebthe national economy hugely vulberable. Nor can we tax our way to prosperity.....the tax take as a % of GDP is at its highesy ever, and to try to tax the Amazons of this world will fruitlesslynsee such compabies flutter their registrations into other jurisdictions. I agree with you in principle Clint but in practice ongoing spebding restraint is the only realistic policy.

In a way the UK economy's predicament isn't too disimmilar to that of Wasps, or, technically, CCFC.

 

[clint van damme]

Because to spend more would be to going back to having a current spending deficit, which is the road to national economic ruin. We need to run big budget surpluses for many years to pay off a big chumk of the national debt, otherwise the interest payments on the debt will continue to outrun the budgets of various government departments like education. We can't borrow to pay for day to day spending, when the next downturm inevitably comes it'll makebthe national economy hugely vulberable. Nor can we tax our way to prosperity.....the tax take as a % of GDP is at its highesy ever, and to try to tax the Amazons of this world will fruitlesslynsee such compabies flutter their registrations into other jurisdictions. I agree with you in principle Clint but in practice ongoing spebding restraint is the only realistic policy.

In a way the UK economy's predicament isn't too disimmilar to that of Wasps, or, technically, CCFC.

austerity isn't an economic strategy, it's a political ideology.
There is a perception that the UK is some soft touch with welfare spend out of control when in reality our spend is about average amongst other developed nations and many of those with higher spend are out performing us economically.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The difficulty is 'how?'. Such companies can easily move investment and domicile themselves according to the most cpmpetitve corp tax regime. Hence the need to be competitve but also push for a single global approach. Just as well the UK is increasing its policy cooperation internationally....oh wait

Competitive = lowest, come on lets stop with this silly business language, it's competitive only in the sense of a race to the bottom.

There needs to be legislation for the likes of Amazon that they need to set up companies in the country where they're trading in order that they can pay their share. Not sure how workable it is and agree with your point on international co-operation

 

[fernandopartridge]

Because to spend more would be to going back to having a current spending deficit, which is the road to national economic ruin. We need to run big budget surpluses for many years to pay off a big chumk of the national debt, otherwise the interest payments on the debt will continue to outrun the budgets of various government departments like education. We can't borrow to pay for day to day spending, when the next downturm inevitably comes it'll makebthe national economy hugely vulberable. Nor can we tax our way to prosperity.....the tax take as a % of GDP is at its highesy ever, and to try to tax the Amazons of this world will fruitlesslynsee such compabies flutter their registrations into other jurisdictions. I agree with you in principle Clint but in practice ongoing spebding restraint is the only realistic policy.

In a way the UK economy's predicament isn't too disimmilar to that of Wasps, or, technically, CCFC.

What drivel. Amazon will forego 60 million consumers in the developed world for the sake of not paying tax

 

[oucho]

Competitive = lowest, come on lets stop with this silly business language, it's competitive only in the sense of a race to the bottom.

There needs to be legislation for the likes of Amazon that they need to set up companies in the country where they're trading in order that they can pay their share. Not sure how workable it is and agree with your point on international co-operation

The not 'workable due to lack of cooperation' bit is the key, really. We shouldn't maintain a higher rate of corp tax for the sake of virtue signalling. We need to look out for ourselves. Please don't demean yourself by using words lile 'drivel'....we disagree, that's all. You don't see me hurling abuse at you despite the suggestion of knee jerk Tory-bashing.

 

[Hobo]

Is that just down to court administration or has it been reported back to the judge that mediation is getting somewhere so he’s allowing more time?

Ha ha ever the optimist.

 

[Astute]

I read the IFS critique which looks beyond just the numbers. The economy has been growing apparently so receipts should be up regardless. You tried to put it down to the cuts themselves which is unproven.

Read that: What’s been happening to corporation tax? - Institute For Fiscal Studies - IFS

All cuts in corporation tax show is the passing of the burden from companies to individuals.

So as usual you tell me that I am wrong. When you see that I am not and you are yourself you use the reason that even the FT say is the reason as I posted.

Yes of course corporation tax receipts have gone up because the economy has been growing. The economy has been growing because the UK became a good place to invest money. This us both new money and reinvesting profits.

I'm sorry that you was wrong. I know you hate being wrong. Especially when it is me that you have had a go at.

 

[shmmeee]

The economy is growing because we had the biggest recession and the slowest recovery ever. The only way was up. Also we just tanked our currency. How short are your memories?

I'm voting tomorrow in the hope of continuing such policies and hopefully more tax/spending cuts in the pipeline.

Not sure how you’re doing that in a local election.

 

[Astute]

The economy is growing because we had the biggest recession and the slowest recovery ever. The only way was up. Also we just tanked our currency. How short are your memories?



Not sure how you’re doing that in a local election.

So to have the highest amount of people in work ever what you need is a worldwide recession?

2008 was a worldwide recession. So how do we have record employment and others don't?

Economics is not having a viewpoint and trying to prove your point. I was sceptical when they first reduced it. But it brought a lot of investment here. And reducing corporation tax by a third means they can constantly afford to invest more, creating more jobs and more money for themselves. And the more miney they make the more they pay in corporation tax. But they are happy because their profits are so much higher.

It is the only tax reduction that the Tories have brought in that I agree with. When they first did it I just thought it was to give money to the rich as they always do.

 

[oucho]

The economy is growing because we had the biggest recession and the slowest recovery ever. The only way was up. Also we just tanked our currency. How short are your memories?



Not sure how you’re doing that in a local election.

It's called "sending a message"; my ward is safe Labour so of course there will be no practical difference.

The economy has been booming for years - recovery from the recession (not the biggest ever, see the 1929-33 depression and MANY others, for that) has been slowed because the pre-recession fiscal deficit was a huge handicap and has prevented the use of fiscal stimuli.

 

[clint van damme]

So to have the highest amount of people in work ever what you need is a worldwide recession?

Economics is not having a viewpoint and trying to prove your point. I was sceptical when they first reduced it. But it brought a lot of investment here. And reducing corporation tax by a third means they can constantly afford to invest more, creating more jobs and more money for themselves. And the more miney they make the more they pay in corporation tax. But they are happy because their profits are so much higher.

It is the only tax reduction that the Tories have brought in that I agree with. When they first did it I just thought it was to give money to the rich as they always do.

I'm not sure about that.
For example, you're saying that there is a lot of investment coming into the UK. But for every article that says that there's one which totally disagrees with it.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there is a hell of a lot of contradictory information.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So as usual you tell me that I am wrong. When you see that I am not and you are yourself you use the reason that even the FT say is the reason as I posted.

Yes of course corporation tax receipts have gone up because the economy has been growing. The economy has been growing because the UK became a good place to invest money. This us both new money and reinvesting profits.

I'm sorry that you was wrong. I know you hate being wrong. Especially when it is me that you have had a go at.

No, the IFS is telling you that you're wrong.

 

[Astute]

I'm not sure about that.
For example, you're saying that there is a lot of investment coming into the UK. But for every article that says that there's one which totally disagrees with it.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there is a hell of a lot of contradictory information.

Just like Brexit. You can find good comments and bad if you look. But I checked the FT. They showed graphs of the tax rate going down and the tax collected. The tax collected has continued to go up. And depending on how you work out how much it went up by last year it went up by between 12% and 20%. So that says to me that somehow it has worked.

 

[Astute]

No, the IFS is telling you that you're wrong.

How are they saying that the FT and myself are wrong?

You said that zero hours contracts are going up. That was wrong. You said corporation tax receipts are down. That was wrong. Investment is up. We have record employment. What else did I say?

 

[Rodders1]

How are they saying that the FT and myself are wrong?

You said that zero hours contracts are going up. That was wrong. You said corporation tax receipts are down. That was wrong. Investment is up. We have record employment. What else did I say?

I could be wrong - but out of the G20 - haven’t we the lowest corporation tax and the slowest economic growth?

 

[Astute]

I could be wrong - but out of the G20 - haven’t we the lowest corporation tax and the slowest economic growth?

We are near the bottom yes.

But if you think that is the whole story you had better move to Lybia. Ours is 1.2 and theirs 55. Or you could go to Ethiopia where it is 10.9

Most countries in the EU have been in decline for years. They have a low base to start with. We have been doing well compared to most. So starting from a high base is better than starting from low.

Some of it is most probably down to Brexit. But one thing that holds us back is it includes imports/exports. And we all know that we have a massive deficit in this way that needs making up in others. I am surprised we are ever in positive territory because of this.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

IS THERE NO ESCAPE?:emoji_knife:

 

[Grendel]

The economy is growing because we had the biggest recession and the slowest recovery ever. The only way was up. Also we just tanked our currency. How short are your memories?

.

Our slow recovery still has us as one of the strongest European economies.

Spain, Greece and Italy to name only three have eye watering levels of unemployment. In fact most of these countries would be bankrupt but for the rigging of the European bank lending rate which is effectively lending high risk economies at rates reserved for strong growing countries. The German investor pays that price by having a negative interest rate even though they have 2% plus inflation.

The currency hasn’t tanked. I know from your food inflation nonsense economics is not your strength but when will you understand currency devaluation is a strategy which can be effective in stimulating growth. A strategy we have the luxury of using which our European counterparts do not.

A tanked pound and a interest rate rise is what we would get if Corbyn ever took office. The finance industry will start to devalue like no tomorrow.

 

[fernandopartridge]

How are they saying that the FT and myself are wrong?

You said that zero hours contracts are going up. That was wrong. You said corporation tax receipts are down. That was wrong. Investment is up. We have record employment. What else did I say?

Fair enough, in your simplistic world corporation tax receipts have increased. The report from IFS recognises this but looks beyond the numbers and talks about whether or not tax cuts are a reason for it.

ZHC have gone up exponentially since 2010, after being largely flat for the preceding 10 years: Record 910,000 UK workers on zero-hours contracts

 

[Astute]

IS THERE NO ESCAPE?:emoji_knife:

My problem is I have been an investor for over 20 years. Never what I would consider seriously but it has given me a good idea how financial markets work and move. So when I see someone who thinks the opposite is true to the truth I try to help them understand. I thought that was the idea of a forum was.

I never start these stupid debates off. But I thought I was allowed to put my opinion across like most others are.

 

[clint van damme]

We are near the bottom yes.

But if you think that is the whole story you had better move to Lybia. Ours is 1.2 and theirs 55. Or you could go to Ethiopia where it is 10.9

Most countries in the EU have been in decline for years. They have a low base to start with. We have been doing well compared to most. So starting from a high base is better than starting from low.

Some of it is most probably down to Brexit. But one thing that holds us back is it includes imports/exports. And we all know that we have a massive deficit in this way that needs making up in others. I am surprised we are ever in positive territory because of this.

Is this what it's come to, comparing ourselves to Libya or Ethiopia?

Or Spain and Greece for that matter

Our slow recovery still has us as one of the strongest European economies.

Spain, Greece and Italy to name only three have eye watering levels of unemployment. In fact most of these countries would be bankrupt but for the rigging of the European bank lending rate which is effectively lending high risk economies at rates reserved for strong growing countries. The German investor pays that price by having a negative interest rate even though they have 2% plus inflation.

The currency hasn’t tanked. I know from your food inflation nonsense economics is not your strength but when will you understand currency devaluation is a strategy which can be effective in stimulating growth. A strategy we have the luxury of using which our European counterparts do not.

A tanked pound and a interest rate rise is what we would get if Corbyn ever took office. The finance industry will start to devalue like no tomorrow.

 

[Grendel]

Is this what it's come to, comparing ourselves to Libya or Ethiopia?

Or Spain and Greece for that matter

France then.

 

[Astute]

Fair enough, in your simplistic world corporation tax receipts have increased. The report from IFS recognises this but looks beyond the numbers and talks about whether or not tax cuts are a reason for it.

ZHC have gone up exponentially since 2010, after being largely flat for the preceding 10 years: Record 910,000 UK workers on zero-hours contracts

Did you see the bit that says this article is over 1 year old in red letters?

There are no figures for this year as we have only just started the 5th month. But the fall in them started last year after exploding for several years. Now they are mainly for hospitality jobs...although places like McDonalds still do them. But they are about to be hit with strikes. They cover 2.8% of workers.

Zero-hours contracts: The trouble with the facts - Policy at work - CIPD Blogs - CIPD Community

So is all the investments made all to do with zero hours contracts?

 

[Astute]

Is this what it's come to, comparing ourselves to Libya or Ethiopia?

Or Spain and Greece for that matter

So who are we allowed to compare ourselves to?

I pointed out Lybia and Ethiopia to show poor countries can easily do the best. Good numbers do not mean a good economy.

Spain and Greece have better numbers than us presently. They are in the EU. We are supposed to be doing badly and they are supposed to be doing well.

As I have been saying a lot of it is down to recent strength. If a country has been struggling for years it doesn't take a lot to get good numbers for a year. If a country has been doing well it doesn't take a lot to get a bad looking number. But it is still growth on top of growth.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

My problem is I have been an investor for over 20 years. Never what I would consider seriously but it has given me a good idea how financial markets work and move. So when I see someone who thinks the opposite is true to the truth I try to help them understand. I thought that was the idea of a forum was.

I never start these stupid debates off. But I thought I was allowed to put my opinion across like most others are.

Sod it, no point. What was this thread about again? Doyle's voting Tory because he's mean and nasty? Burge has dropped the ball on the economy? Haynes is too left to be palatable to Grendel?

 

[Astute]

Sod it, no point. What was this thread about again? Doyle's voting Tory because he's mean and nasty? Burge has dropped the ball on the economy? Haynes is too left to be palatable to Grendel?

And I started it?

No point. You won't say anything to who took it off the thread.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And I started it?

No point. You won't say anything to who took it off the thread.

You were the one who quoted me with some bollocks about your 'truth' being better than others!

Before that I quoted nobody. You didn't have to jump on my post!

Where on earth did I say you started it?!?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

A tanked pound and a interest rate rise is what we would get if Corbyn ever took office. The finance industry will start to devalue like no tomorrow.

The likelihood is, interests rates are inevitably going to rise either in this, or the next government. Interest rates have been kept artificially low (at .5%) by the Bank of England for 6 years now. In fact, partly due to poor consumer demand, the BoE is probably going to shelve an interest rate hike...

 

[Astute]

The likelihood is, interests rates are inevitably going to rise either in this, or the next government. Interest rates have been kept artificially low (at .5%) by the Bank of England for 6 years now. In fact, partly due to poor consumer demand, the BoE is probably going to shelve an interest rate hike...

Naughty boy. This is off topic. We have already been told.

 

[Astute]

You were the one who quoted me with some bollocks about your 'truth' being better than others!

Before that I quoted nobody. You didn't have to jump on my post!

Where on earth did I say you started it?!?

Jump on your post?

As soon as we get on this sort of subject there is you, Fern, Clint, SB and Mart that stick together like glue. Maybe not you but others would argue that black is white. Clint is like yourself and sticks to what we have proof of or at least just questions everything. Nothing wrong there at all.

But I agree it is getting more stupid all the time. I don't come on here to have stupid arguments all the time. I have much better things I could be doing. And I also don't need to have stupid arguments on here either. I am married.

I am leaving it up to you lot from now. It is a waste of time when some refuse to listen to the truth anyway.

 

[clint van damme]

Jump on your post?

As soon as we get on this sort of subject there is you, Fern, Clint, SB and Mart that stick together like glue. Maybe not you but others would argue that black is white. Clint is like yourself and sticks to what we have proof of or at least just questions everything. Nothing wrong there at all.

But I agree it is getting more stupid all the time. I don't come on here to have stupid arguments all the time. I have much better things I could be doing. And I also don't need to have stupid arguments on here either. I am married.

I am leaving it up to you lot from now. It is a waste of time when some refuse to listen to the truth anyway.

he (@oucho ) started it!!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Jump on your post?

Let's have a look at what I said.

IS THERE NO ESCAPE?:emoji_knife:

How you then get

As soon as we get on this sort of subject there is you, Fern, Clint, SB and Mart that stick together like glue.

is frankly laughable and pathetic.