Wasps current finances & hope (9 Viewers)

[lordsummerisle]

That response to Nick doesn't even make sense in relation to what he posted. Its the worst deflection ever. Go and have a lie down and leave the keyboard for a few days.

Bet you're regretting being so nice to him a couple of days ago now!

 

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[Moff]

Bet you're regretting being so nice to him a couple of days ago now!

Obviously alcohol related.

Good to see you back!

 

[Nick]

I'm sure I saw a story or link a few years ago saying how Dereck Richardson had been sniffing around the Ricoh before he got involved with Wasps.

Does anybody else remember that and have a link to it if it isn't in fact my senility.

Yep, it was in the court cases.

SISU Lawyer said something about Richardson waiting in the wings years ago (2010 / 2012 rings a bell) and discussing it with the council. The council lawyer said talks had happened but it wasnt quite waiting in the wings.

(something like that anyway, thats off memory)

 

[chiefdave]

I'm sure I saw a story or link a few years ago saying how Dereck Richardson had been sniffing around the Ricoh before he got involved with Wasps.

Does anybody else remember that and have a link to it if it isn't in fact my senility.

When Derek Richardson took over the club in 2013, things seemed rosy. After a period of gross uncertainty in which the two-time European Cup winners had come perilously close to both relegation and administration, here was a man who planned on taking the club forward – allegedly. A closer look at the facts suggests Richardson’s end game was not, in fact, the long term future of Wasps rugby club, but rather getting his hands on the Ricoh Arena.

It all started two years ago – and the date is of great significance. According to Coventry RFC president Peter Rossborough, speaking in a recent interview with the BBC, Richardson met with him two years ago to discuss a potential ‘merger’ between the two clubs – perhaps with one eye on the Ricoh. Crucially, this was well before Richardson had declared any commercial interest in Wasps, suggesting he had an interest in the Ricoh before taking over Wasps.

Wasps have been buzzing around Ricoh Arena for years

 

[fernandopartridge]

Do Wasps/ACL have a good or bad reputation for paying for local services or local suppliers does anyone know? Must be a few local contractors, service and goods suppliers I would think into the Ricoh. Do they pay 30,60,90,120days? When the solicitors letters arrive? Don’t know personally but must be people on here who work for service and goods suppliers into the Ricoh so was wondering what their experience is. Can be a good cash flow indicator.

Their turnover is just under the level for statutory reporting of such information

 

[lordsummerisle]

Their turnover is just under the level for statutory reporting of such information

Hopefully it will fall well under the level for reporting soon.

Wouldn't want them to be burdened with additional accounting costs!

 

[Nick]

It's quite funny that people keep pointing facts out to them and their reply is to "get therapy" or try and act as if Les Reid has made it up.

You would think considering they apparently nearly went tits up so had to move they wouldn't have their heads in the sand so much.

It does explain why hardly any were fussed when they moved, they believe any old bullshit they are told.

 

[lordsummerisle]

It's quite funny that people keep pointing facts out to them and their reply is to "get therapy" or try and act as if Les Reid has made it up.

You would think considering they apparently nearly went tits up so had to move they wouldn't have their heads in the sand so much.

It does explain why hardly any were fussed when they moved, they believe any old bullshit they are told.

They are reminiscent of many who were on GMK , the CT and here before in their faith in bulsshit merchants.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's quite funny that people keep pointing facts out to them and their reply is to "get therapy" or try and act as if Les Reid has made it up.

You would think considering they apparently nearly went tits up so had to move they wouldn't have their heads in the sand so much.

It does explain why hardly any were fussed when they moved, they believe any old bullshit they are told.

They're like italia. He's the sports fan equivalent of the middle aged spinster, always convinced that the latest love interest is 'the one' until they realise he's just like all the rest

 

[Astute]

Sting in the tale for holders of Wasps 6.5% due 2022? - Retail Bond Expert

If only I gave a shit about Wasps. Then I would have known that they have already started cost saving with their squad. Mutiny with their players over broken promises? So the bond holders are unhappy. The players are unhappy. Their auditors are unhappy. Companies house are unhappy. Those running Wasps are unhappy as their dodgy way of doing the books has been uncovered.

So they are still making a loss. The money they got extra to cover bond interest has gone. So they now have to find the money from somewhere. They have to find money to cover their losses. Looks like something like 4m a year to find if things stay as they are.

So they need to find about 50m in the next 4 years. Richardson took 10m out. Can't see him wanting to put much more than that just to keep them afloat. Sitting here with a big smile on my face.

Does anyone know for sure what would happen with the ownership of the arena if Wasps default on the payments of the bonds or they go back to where they belong? My guess would be ownership would pass to the bondholders.

If that is the case would they try to find a buyer? I wonder where we would play if that is the case. I think I would support a move this tume as long as it isn't too far outside Coventry. Up north a bit this time please :woot:

 

[oldfiver]

Does anyone know for sure what would happen with the ownership of the arena if Wasps default on the payments of the bonds or they go back to where they belong? My guess would be ownership would pass to the bondholders.



My former post :

Risks relating the head lease of the Arena granted to ACL2006 Under the terms of the head lease granted by Coventry City Council (“CCC”) to Arena Coventry (2006) Limited (“ACL2006”) in respect of the Arena (the “Head Lease”), CCC have reserved the right to forfeit the Head Lease if ACL2006 becomes insolvent. Insolvency in this scenario means a situation where ACL2006 becomes unable to pay its debts, has a receiver/administrator/provisional liquidator appointed over its assets, has assets seized in order to pay debts of ACL2006 or has a winding-up order made against it. The effect of forfeiture would be that the 250 year Head Lease would fall away and that ACL would then become the tenant of CCC at the Arena for the remaining 38 years of its existing lease. However, the right of CCC to claim forfeiture of the Head Lease is not an automatic right. If CCC made a claim for such forfeiture, this could be contested by ACL2006, any third party that held security over ACL2006 and any subtenants of ACL2006 by making application to a court in England. Further, if an administrator was to be appointed over the assets of ACL2006, then CCC would not be able to forfeit the Head Lease without the consent of the appointed administrator or with the leave of the courts. If forfeiture was to take place prior to maturity of the Bonds, then U.S. Bank Trustees Limited, the entity that will hold the security on behalf of Bondholders, may not be in a position to assign the Head Lease for value in the event CCC forfeited the lease as described in the preceding paragraph. This may have an impact on the Bondholders’ ability to receive full repayment of their investment in the Bonds on the occurrence of such an insolvency event.

 

[Nick]

Surely ownership would have to go to the Bondholders otherwise it's not really security? If it defaults back to the Council then where does it leave the bondholders?

 

[oldfiver]

Surely ownership would have to go to the Bondholders otherwise it's not really security? If it defaults back to the Council then where does it leave the bondholders?

Only if there is a possession clause. The Receiver gets it first and it will be up to him to get what he can from a sale
There is some doubt on the forfeiture clause back to CCC - could end up in a Court dispute

 

[italiahorse]

No ones worried, only you. Were delighted at the news.
.

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.
I even see Sisu pulling the plug.
But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then see what happens.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

 

[oldfiver]

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.
I even see Sisu pulling the plug.
But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then see what happens.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

I do not follow your argument
How much does WASPS RUGBY contribute to ACL or whoever holds the lease?
If WASPs not there it does not stop CCFC playing there - after all think of all the NOPM's who will turn up

 

[Nick]

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.
I even see Sisu pulling the plug.
But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then see what happens.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

You aren't able to look at any picture, it wasn't long ago you were telling us to watch CCFC die so that Wasps could save us. You were the one demanding people back SISU. You were the one telling us a naming rights deal was going to happen because a random bloke registered a domain name.

What picture do you look at exactly, as it keeps turning out to be incorrect time and time again?

 

[chiefdave]

Surely ownership would have to go to the Bondholders otherwise it's not really security? If it defaults back to the Council then where does it leave the bondholders?

If Wasps know the shit is about to hit the fan whats to stop them having a lease with ACL2006 for 1p a year with primacy and all revenues going to Wasps?

Then when they go bust CCC can't take the lease back as stated above so any new owner who buys the lease off the administrator is screwed and has to put up with Wasps.

Doesn't it also mean that CCC, who were so concerned CCFC and / or SISU wouldn't get ownership would have zero control over who ended up as owners?

 

[italiahorse]

I do not follow your argument
How much does WASPS RUGBY contribute to ACL or whoever holds the lease?
If WASPs not there it does not stop CCFC playing there - after all think of all the NOPM's who will turn up

More than you obviously think.
Wasps own ACL.
If Wasps go then Sisu start again to get the freehold.
They have unfinished business.

 

[covmark]

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.
I even see Sisu pulling the plug.
But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then see what happens.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Stop peddling your pro wasps PR crap ffs. CCFC survived 130 years without the stadium thieves. I'm sure we'd survive just fine without them again.

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[chiefdave]

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.

I've asked you numerous times to back this up with an explanation. Why can approx. 80 clubs survive owning their own stadium but it would be a disaster for us?

If Wasps were to go then the lease would be available, most likely via an administrator, with no debt attached. And of course there's nothing to say the whole thing has to stay one business. The hotel could be sold off and the exhibition hall sold off leaving CCFC with just a football stadium to worry about.

 

[fernandopartridge]

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.
I even see Sisu pulling the plug.
But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then see what happens.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Sharing what risk? CCFC does not need to share any of Wasps financial risks, it'd be stupid to do so.

The simple picture is that the Ricoh would be reasonably successful if not encumbered with debt like it has been since 2005.

 

[Astute]

Does anyone know for sure what would happen with the ownership of the arena if Wasps default on the payments of the bonds or they go back to where they belong? My guess would be ownership would pass to the bondholders.



My former post :

Risks relating the head lease of the Arena granted to ACL2006 Under the terms of the head lease granted by Coventry City Council (“CCC”) to Arena Coventry (2006) Limited (“ACL2006”) in respect of the Arena (the “Head Lease”), CCC have reserved the right to forfeit the Head Lease if ACL2006 becomes insolvent. Insolvency in this scenario means a situation where ACL2006 becomes unable to pay its debts, has a receiver/administrator/provisional liquidator appointed over its assets, has assets seized in order to pay debts of ACL2006 or has a winding-up order made against it. The effect of forfeiture would be that the 250 year Head Lease would fall away and that ACL would then become the tenant of CCC at the Arena for the remaining 38 years of its existing lease. However, the right of CCC to claim forfeiture of the Head Lease is not an automatic right. If CCC made a claim for such forfeiture, this could be contested by ACL2006, any third party that held security over ACL2006 and any subtenants of ACL2006 by making application to a court in England. Further, if an administrator was to be appointed over the assets of ACL2006, then CCC would not be able to forfeit the Head Lease without the consent of the appointed administrator or with the leave of the courts. If forfeiture was to take place prior to maturity of the Bonds, then U.S. Bank Trustees Limited, the entity that will hold the security on behalf of Bondholders, may not be in a position to assign the Head Lease for value in the event CCC forfeited the lease as described in the preceding paragraph. This may have an impact on the Bondholders’ ability to receive full repayment of their investment in the Bonds on the occurrence of such an insolvency event.

Like I said does anyone know for sure?

 

[Astute]

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.
I even see Sisu pulling the plug.
But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then see what happens.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Eh?

If SISU got their hands on the arena and used it to boost the value of CCFC before selling then happy all round.

If SISU got their hands on the arena and piled debt onto it like Wasps have then yes we would struggle.

 

[Moff]

As I've asked before, what happens when Wasps leave ?
In my view, the only way CCFC will survive is at the Ricoh sharing the risk with Wasps.
If Wasps leave we are finished at the Ricoh and have no stadium.
I even see Sisu pulling the plug.
But hey, lets get rid of Wasps first and then see what happens.
Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Right that's your opinion here is mine.

1) When Wasps leave, the Ricoh will need another tenant/leaseholder/owner. I would like that to be CCFC. The club is far more saleable with a stadium rather than hamstrung without.
2) If Wasps leave we are finished is utter garbage, just your assertion and totally fabricated and without fact.
3) Why would SISU pull the plug because Wasps leave? That has got to be one of the single stupidest things I have heard. Again totally fact less, and your opinion only.
4) Yes lets get rid of Wasps first and see what happens, as with them here CCFC are not going far. I would rather see what would happen than sit here and watch you as a one man PR Machine defend the indefensible, purely because your wallet gets fatter.
5) Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture, something day on day you have proved that you cant as you sit like a beleaguered one man PR machine defending a club run by a bunch of chancers on par with SISU.

 

[Astute]

More than you obviously think.
Wasps own ACL.
If Wasps go then Sisu start again to get the freehold.
They have unfinished business.

Better than Wasps having the 250 year lease.

 

[Moff]

Sharing what risk? CCFC does not need to share any of Wasps financial risks, it'd be stupid to do so.

The simple picture is that the Ricoh would be reasonably successful if not encumbered with debt like it has been since 2005.

Do you think he believes the absolute dross he keeps repeating?

 

[Moff]

Eh?

If SISU got their hands on the arena and used it to boost the value of CCFC before selling then happy all round.

If SISU got their hands on the arena and piled debt onto it like Wasps have then yes we would struggle.

Don't post well reasoned intelligent answers, he cant cope!

 

[Astute]

Do you think he believes the absolute dross he keeps repeating?

I don't believe a lot of what is on here.

All we can do is look at what seems to be the facts and then which direction it could go in. All we know is that it isn't looking good for Wasps. We are left to guess what would happen with the lease if they go. Most probably JR4.

SISU are continuing with court cases to make Wasps suffer. It must be costing them a fair bit to defend. And they need to defend what SISU are alleging as they want Wasps to pay another 30m. But they are making a loss and struggling to make the bond interest payments. After this court case I half expect JR3 against Wasps for some reason.

There are many twists and turns to come yet. Might just have to keep an eye on Wasps for once :smuggrin:

 

[oldfiver]

More than you obviously think.
Wasps own ACL.
If Wasps go then Sisu start again to get the freehold.
They have unfinished business.

The effect of forfeiture would be that the 250 year Head Lease would fall away and that ACL would then become the tenant of CCC at the Arena for the remaining 38 years of its existing lease

Therefore, the total consideration paid including equity and debt acquired was £19.9
million. Wasps Holdings also signed a 50 year licence with ACL to play all home First Team games at the
Arena

 

[stupot07]

Have the CT run the story yet? I can't see it on their website.

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[oldfiver]

NO !

 

[speedie87]

some thoughts from some bonds holders on an investors forum

Wasps Consent Solicitation - The Lemon Fool

 

[stupot07]

NO !

How convenient they fail to run this story but instead the '£26m' Butts stadium non-story emerged today.......the newly appointed London PR firm has been busy...

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[clint van damme]

He writes your script and you run with it. Not just this thread.
As I said the only people worrying about it are on here.
I could say Sisu are deflecting you from the real problem and you have fell into the trap.
The Wasps business is in its early days and yes it's probably not happening as quick as expected for some like institutional bond holders etc but it's moving in the right direction be it slowly.

I like their threads comment saying that they delayed the accounts to get this forum in meltdown.

my irony metre just blew up!
You do know that slating wasps isn't an endorsement of sisu?
There is no one on here who has their colours nailed as firmly to a club relocating, carpet bagging mast as you.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Better than Wasps having the 250 year lease.

Yup, I think most people, even if they felt the club had been screwed by the ACL deal, could at least understand why a council might want to at least control and / or protect its asset.

That all went out the window when they decided to shift it on to Wasps!

After this court case I half expect JR3 against Wasps for some reason.

Don't think that's likely tbh.

But the Ricoh valuation is highly... (in)convenient!