The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (149 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Come on, you're not fan of the far right so you're automatically a hard leftie.

I’d say he’s very much a fan of far right ideology

 

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[dutchman]

You do have a veto right on major issues so your country is not a vassal state. There are 27 other countries in the European Council and more than 600 MEPs from non German countries in the parliament. The parliament does not vote on a country basis anyway.

The vassal state of Holland doesn’t exist, neither does the German Reich. More Brexit terminology. Sad that it now comes from a Dutchman.

I got the terminology from the replies from Dutch people on Dutch news websites, nothing to do with Brexit. It is now a widely held belief in Holland and growing day-by-day.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

You didn’t answer the question about how well Brexit is panning out.

Funny that.

Nobody knows because nothing has been agreed. You're fretting about hearsay & scaremongering...like what you accuse Brexiteers of falling prey to at the referendum

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[SkyblueBazza]

Sorry, I just don’t get the connection between binmen and the 4. Reich.

Please explain how that works.

The 3. Reich got into gear with the reoccupation of the Rheinland. Are you suggesting that the 4. Reich is more low key and starting with the renaming of British binmen?

The point is you can call it, or dress it up whatever you want, but the same guy is still simply emptying the bins into a truck! That is his purpose.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Come on, you're not fan of the far right so you're automatically a hard leftie.

Which ironically is a pretty extreme interpretation of things

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[chiefdave]

You are only talking about Syrians here, net migration to the UK generally runs at about 180,000 plus a year from all over the world.

I used Syria as an example as we were discussing people coming from countries we are bombing. Syria is a recent example and has a decent amount of data available.

If you're looking at immigration in general the top 10 source countries include India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria and South Africa.

Leaving the EU isn't going to reduce that. If anything it will increase. India for example have already state a pre-requisite for a trade deal is loosening of immigration rules for Indians.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I got the terminology from the replies from Dutch people on Dutch news websites, nothing to do with Brexit. It is now a widely held belief in Holland and growing day-by-day.

You can bet your life some of the Scandinavian nations are watching things closely even at government level. Historical allegiences are not easily broken down.
I suspect some of Trumps antics on tarrifs are being done with the intent to send subtle supportive messages to the EU for more of a 'business as usual' as far as possible approach to their bargaining strategy with the UK...simply due to our support historically for the US

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[Sick Boy]

Which ironically is a pretty extreme interpretation of things

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Whoosh!

 

[Sick Boy]

I suspect some of Trumps antics on tarrifs are being done with the intent to send subtle supportive messages to the EU for more of a 'business as usual' as far as possible approach to their bargaining strategy with the UK...simply due to our support historically for the US

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If you genuinely believe that then you're off your head.

May has very much allied herself with fellow European leaders with regards to their response to Trump's behaviour.

 

[Ashdown]

I used Syria as an example as we were discussing people coming from countries we are bombing. Syria is a recent example and has a decent amount of data available.

If you're looking at immigration in general the top 10 source countries include India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria and South Africa.

Leaving the EU isn't going to reduce that. If anything it will increase. India for example have already state a pre-requisite for a trade deal is loosening of immigration rules for Indians.

As long as those said Indians are coming to offer a valuable contribution to the country in skilled roles rather than joining the mass of Eastern EU migrants who largely look to send much of their money home, pay little tax and drive down wages for the average working class Brit then it's all good.

 

[wingy]

If you genuinely believe that then you're off your head.

May has very much allied herself with fellow European leaders with regards to their response to Trump's behaviour.

Not forgetting Donalds actions are Unilateral.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

If you genuinely believe that then you're off your head.

May has very much allied herself with fellow European leaders with regards to their response to Trump's behaviour.

If you think they don't talk behind the scenes & put strategies in place with close allies - you should add 'Niaive' to your user name

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[martcov]

I got the terminology from the replies from Dutch people on Dutch news websites, nothing to do with Brexit. It is now a widely held belief in Holland and growing day-by-day.

Christianity is a widely held belief system, but just as your Dutch belief, it is not fact based.

 

[martcov]

Nobody knows because nothing has been agreed. You're fretting about hearsay & scaremongering...like what you accuse Brexiteers of falling prey to at the referendum

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The economy is shrinking in comparison with other G7 economies. The pound has fallen and inflation is taking away the benefits of wage increases. There is uncertainty and our government are still negotiating with themselves as to what Brexit is. Etc etc.

That is not scaremongering, it is the current situation.

 

[Sick Boy]

If you think they don't talk behind the scenes & put strategies in place with close allies - you should add 'Niaive' to your user name

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I'd get yourself a tinfoil hat and a dictionary.

You really are clutching at straws here.

 

[skybluetony176]

As long as those said Indians are coming to offer a valuable contribution to the country in skilled roles rather than joining the mass of Eastern EU migrants who largely look to send much of their money home, pay little tax and drive down wages for the average working class Brit then it's all good.

We need unskilled workers as well as skilled. If they come from India they’ll do exactly the same as skilled and unskilled Indian workers do in places like the U.A.E. Namely everything that you’re moaning about Eastern EU migrants apparently doing.

 

[Astute]

The economy is shrinking in comparison with other G7 economies.

Now I remember why I have kept away from this thread. It is hard to have a debate with people who twist every bit of truth they can.

So our economy is in decline?

Of course it isn't. We have record employment. We are still growing. The problem is that we are growing from record levels. Not a bad problem to have. But of course you want to make it sound bad as our growth has slowed a bit. That was always going to happen whatever.

 

[Astute]

We need unskilled workers as well as skilled. If they come from India they’ll do exactly the same as skilled and unskilled Indian workers do in places like the U.A.E. Namely everything that you’re moaning about Eastern EU migrants apparently doing.

The problem is that we need skilled workers a lot more than unskilled. But we don't have a choice at the moment. The more unskilled that come here the more skilled workers we need. And we already don't have enough.

Those from outside the EU have major problems coming here. Even those who are needed for the NHS. The government have made it difficult to keep the numbers down. It is all wrong. But they are more interested in vote winners.

 

[skybluetony176]

The problem is that we need skilled workers a lot more than unskilled. But we don't have a choice at the moment. The more unskilled that come here the more skilled workers we need. And we already don't have enough.

Those from outside the EU have major problems coming here. Even those who are needed for the NHS. The government have made it difficult to keep the numbers down. It is all wrong. But they are more interested in vote winners.

Do we? Are skilled workers going to pick fruit, work in hotels and restaurants, work zero hours contracts on minimum wage? We have record employment in this country and unless we close down sectors of industry we need unskilled workers to keep certain sectors going.

 

[martcov]

Now I remember why I have kept away from this thread. It is hard to have a debate with people who twist every bit of truth they can.

So our economy is in decline?

Of course it isn't. We have record employment. We are still growing. The problem is that we are growing from record levels. Not a bad problem to have. But of course you want to make it sound bad as our growth has slowed a bit. That was always going to happen whatever.

Yes, but it is growing more slowly than other G7 economies. Why?

 

[Astute]

Yes, but it is growing more slowly than other G7 economies. Why?

How many of them are at record levels like us?

 

[Astute]

Do we? Are skilled workers going to pick fruit, work in hotels and restaurants, work zero hours contracts on minimum wage? We have record employment in this country and unless we close down sectors of industry we need unskilled workers to keep certain sectors going.

So it is more important to have cheap labour to pick fruit than it is for skilled labour that we desperately need like for the NHS?

Many areas are struggling badly in hospitals. They can't get the qualified staff. But the populations are going up even more. At least it satisfies the companies that want cheap labour.

 

[martcov]

How many of them are at record levels like us?

Germany is. I don’t know about the rest, but when the world economy is doing great, we should be still growing. We are not growing much in comparison. Why?

 

[skybluetony176]

So it is more important to have cheap labour to pick fruit than it is for skilled labour that we desperately need like for the NHS?

Many areas are struggling badly in hospitals. They can't get the qualified staff. But the populations are going up even more. At least it satisfies the companies that want cheap labour.

Just because the NHS is struggling to recruit doesn’t mean that cheap labour isn’t important to the economy. Fact is many sectors rely on cheap immigrant labour and can’t survive without them. You can keep ignoring that and keep spouting skilled labour all you like but if we stop letting in unskilled people the economy is going to take a hit at a time it can’t afford to.

 

[Westendlad]

Just because the NHS is struggling to recruit doesn’t mean that cheap labour isn’t important to the economy. Fact is many sectors rely on cheap immigrant labour and can’t survive without them. You can keep ignoring that and keep spouting skilled labour all you like but if we stop letting in unskilled people the economy is going to take a hit at a time it can’t afford to.

The more unskilled who come here then the more the NHS and schools etc will struggle......

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The economy is shrinking in comparison with other G7 economies. The pound has fallen and inflation is taking away the benefits of wage increases. There is uncertainty and our government are still negotiating with themselves as to what Brexit is. Etc etc.

That is not scaremongering, it is the current situation.

By now you will have noticed that the uncertainty around any significant change is disruptive. By the end it turns out to have been worth the disruption, or not as the case may be. You have sought & found more doom & gloom because that is what you wish for unless your way of thinking is adopted.

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[SkyblueBazza]

I'd get yourself a tinfoil hat and a dictionary.

You really are clutching at straws here.

Well you just carry on your way...& I will carry on mine. I'm happy

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[SkyblueBazza]

Yes, but it is growing more slowly than other G7 economies. Why?

Because these things are cyclical & somebody has to be slowest...the uncertanties of Brexit were always going to be felt. Once it has been done & dusted we may well return to lead the growth table. And they are just numbers, most of in reality don't feel much different as a result of being top or bottom in terms of growth

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[martcov]

Because these things are cyclical & somebody has to be slowest...the uncertanties of Brexit were always going to be felt. Once it has been done & dusted we may well return to lead the growth table. And they are just numbers, most of in reality don't feel much different as a result of being top or bottom in terms of growth

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Just numbers?

More details:

The Brexit effect: How the last two years have impacted the economy

 

[scubasteve]

Do we? Are skilled workers going to pick fruit, work in hotels and restaurants, work zero hours contracts on minimum wage? We have record employment in this country and unless we close down sectors of industry we need unskilled workers to keep certain sectors going.

So you like importing cheap labour that makes companies more profit, pretty much 21st century economic slave labour. And i thought you sat on the left. Wow.

 

[Astute]

Germany is. I don’t know about the rest, but when the world economy is doing great, we should be still growing. We are not growing much in comparison. Why?

Be honest for once.

We are at record levels. It has never been as good in the UK before. So of course growth will be hard.

Yet you champion countries that are starting off a low base that are not doing anywhere near as good as we are. 1.5% of record numbers is much harder than 3% of not doing well for ages.

 

[Astute]

Just because the NHS is struggling to recruit doesn’t mean that cheap labour isn’t important to the economy. Fact is many sectors rely on cheap immigrant labour and can’t survive without them. You can keep ignoring that and keep spouting skilled labour all you like but if we stop letting in unskilled people the economy is going to take a hit at a time it can’t afford to.

Shall we let them all live in your house? Because we don't have anywhere else for them.

 

[Astute]

Just numbers?

More details:

The Brexit effect: How the last two years have impacted the economy

Just numbers?

So how come our economy is at record levels? And that is after being told we would crash and burn if there was a leave vote. And that is after Juncker and co trying to unsettle our economy as much as they can to try and make us stay in the EU.

So what happened to the house price crash? What happened to the jobless total soaring? What happened to the share price crash?

Yes these are the numbers that matter. We have our own currency. If we had the Euro we would be as fucked as many countries that use it. The £ is our safety net that will help us through the transition period.

 

[skybluetony176]

The more unskilled who come here then the more the NHS and schools etc will struggle......

That’s a consequence of successive failing governments not migrants. Fact is they’re coming to work, that means that there is jobs available, that means there is tax to collect and that means there are funds to distribute to the NHS, schools, housing etc. It’s failed governments that have let these areas down through starving them of investment, mismanagement of what investment they have received and crucially a lack of long term thinking. Governments have got to start thinking further ahead than the current term and there has to be some joined up thinking between opposing political parties on certain areas of government so there can be a handover when governments change.

So we stop all the unskilled migrants coming. Then what? Schools, NHS and housing still need investment such is the long term failures in these areas. How do we pay for that when areas of the economy are struggling as there isn’t enough workers to do the work so tax collections are down from sectors of industry and tax collections are down again because you can’t collect tax from people who aren’t here filling job vacancies that no longer can be filled.

 

[Astute]

That’s a consequence of successive failing governments not migrants. Fact is they’re coming to work, that means that there is jobs available, that means there is tax to collect and that means there are funds to distribute to the NHS, schools, housing etc. It’s failed governments that have let these areas down through starving them of investment, mismanagement of what investment they have received and crucially a lack of long term thinking. Governments have got to start thinking further ahead than the current term and there has to be some joined up thinking between opposing political parties on certain areas of government so there can be a handover when governments change.

So we stop all the unskilled migrants coming. Then what? Schools, NHS and housing still need investment such is the long term failures in these areas. How do we pay for that when areas of the economy are struggling as there isn’t enough workers to do the work so tax collections are down from sectors of industry and tax collections are down again because you can’t collect tax from people who aren’t here filling job vacancies that no longer can be filled.

Here you go on with your normal long rants as usual that as usual misses the spot.

Yes all governments for a very long time have failed in many ways like with housing and such. But the problems have been exasperated by the open door policy where we can't choose who comes here to live. That means we can't choose the skills. The more unskilled that come here the more skilled workers we need. And we don't have enough skilled workers as it is.