The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (8 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

I was both happy and amused to see Germany knocked out. Not because I hate them though because I don’t. Celebrating hate or someone else’s hate of something or someone is odd behaviour though for a level headed person.

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

Trade barriers are obligatory under world trade rules which will apply if leave without a deal. We have been told that third party countries cannot have a better deal than members even if we get a deal.. So whatever happens we will be worse off. At least until we trade with someone else. This is what you were told.

This is what leavers voted for. Not the EU citizens.

Even Farage admits that we may lose some of our manufacturing resulting in a 10% drop in GDP, but insists that we should care more about the 90% and future deals. Brexit wasn’t about economics ( according to Farage ) it was about becoming a self governing independent country ( which we are anyway ). So, feck the people who lose their jobs... it is not so important.. if you follow the Farage line.

Different day...same shit!

You asked a question - I answered it. The 'obligatory' trade barriers will AGAIN apply both ways so EU cou tries will suffer too.

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[martcov]

Different day...same shit!

You asked a question - I answered it. The 'obligatory' trade barriers will AGAIN apply both ways so EU cou tries will suffer too.

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Yes, Einstein. That’s what „we“
voted for.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yes:
Marine Le Pen abandons 'Frexit' campaign after crushing election defeat

Yes:

"Under pressure from populists, EU doubles down on curbing migration" - Under pressure from populists, EU doubles down on curbing migration

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[SkyblueBazza]

Yes, Einstein. That’s what „we“
voted for.

Stop moaning then & go hide in your German bunker

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[martcov]

Yes:

"Under pressure from populists, EU doubles down on curbing migration" - Under pressure from populists, EU doubles down on curbing migration

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EU seeks consensus about migration. Good.

 

[Ashdown]

No.

Joking.

But, there is certainly a shift in views to the right and public debate has changed for the worse.

You should be more alarmed by a shortage of ''strongbow' which is being reported in the UK media !!

 

[martcov]

You should be more alarmed by a shortage of ''strongbow' which is being reported in the UK media !!

Luckily the Strongbow in the EU comes from Firma Stassen in Belgium. Murphy’s Stout and Red come from Holland. And, I have Brother‘s and Weston‘s Ciders in my list. In the future more products will be produced in the EU under licence to avoid delays and tariffs.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

EU seeks consensus about migration. Good.

Funny the bits you choose to ignore & the spin you put on the ones you choose not to.

Ironic that the EU - now under pressure from the same (what in Britain you have referred to as) racisit stance in their respective countries - you are happy to accept debate on tightening borders, free-movement (all-be-it discriminatory) in the form of terming it secondary movement...another much debated British stance which you have objected to time & time again.

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[dutchman]

Yes:
Marine Le Pen abandons 'Frexit' campaign after crushing election defeat

That's a purely speculative headline from a pro-EU newspaper written in May 2017 which turned out to be incorrect. The actual headline reads "to abandon" not "abandon" and text underneath reads: "is expected to abandon".

Now, do you have a link to current source which supports your claim? I've already posted a link to the Wikipedia article which states otherwise.

 

[martcov]

Funny the bits you choose to ignore & the spin you put on the ones you choose not to.

Ironic that the EU - now under pressure from the same (what in Britain you have referred to as) racisit stance in their respective countries - you are happy to accept debate on tightening borders, free-movement (all-be-it discriminatory) in the form of terming it secondary movement...another much debated British stance which you have objected to time & time again.

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I am for free movement of EU citizens within the EU.

I am for consensus on refugees treatment.

I am for control of non EU immigration according to deals struck with different countries by the EU.

It is not difficult really. People saying they hate Germans, Poles, Indians etc.purely because of their ethnicity are, by definition, racist.

There seems to be a lot popping up since Brexit. Grendel would have jumped on anyone posting that they hate a particular people a couple of years ago. Now he reposts people professing the hate for another group.

 

[martcov]

That's a purely speculative headline from a pro-EU newspaper written in May 2017 which turned out to be incorrect. The actual headline reads "to abandon" not "abandon" and text underneath reads: "is expected to abandon".

Now, do you have a link to current source which supports your claim? I've already posted a link to the Wikipedia article which states otherwise.

Le Pens Euro-Kehrtwende: Au revoir, "Frexit"! - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Politik

 

[Grendel]

Racist cow. Fits easily with your right wing mindset. Thought you might like that sort of bigotry.

Racist? Germany isn’t a race Mart. They gave up on that idea a while ago.

 

[dutchman]

Le Pens Euro-Kehrtwende: Au revoir, "Frexit"! - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Politik

That's another speculative article from a pro-EU newspaper written in April of last year which mentions only the Euro, not membership of the EU.

However a few months later:

France's far-right National Front keeps policy to exit euro - France 24

Now, do you have a link to any source which states that Le Pen's party's current policy is to remain in the EU?

 

[martcov]

That's another speculative article from a pro-EU newspaper written in April of last year which mentions only the Euro, not membership of the EU.

However a few months later:

France's far-right National Front keeps policy to exit euro - France 24

Now, do you have a link to any source which states that Le Pen's party's current policy is to remain in the EU?

I am working btw.. but it seems that populists will say anything to get what they want. Lying, leading people up the garden path and not taking responsibility for the problems they cause. Who knows what is in her interests to say today.., or to say something else tomorrow.., I won’t vote for any populist party now that I can vote again..

 

[Grendel]

I am working btw.. but it seems that populists will say anything to get what they want. Lying, leading people up the garden path and not taking responsibility for the problems they cause. Who knows what is in her interests to say today.., or to say something else tomorrow.., I won’t vote for any populist party now that I can vote again..

So as usual your "evidence" was a load of smoke filled euro bollocks

 

[martcov]

Racist? Germany isn’t a race Mart. They gave up on that idea a while ago.

Well, how can your woman hate Germans if they aren’t a race or Volk anymore? Shows how stupid racists are.

 

[martcov]

So as usual your "evidence" was a load of smoke filled euro bollocks

No, it wasn’t. She did say she was dropping the crap. And she did..at least in order to fool the voters. Maybe she is back to the old formula again... I will look later, but she is certainly not a good example of an alternative to the EU. Got anyone better?

 

[Grendel]

Well, how can your woman hate Germans if they aren’t a race or Volk anymore? Shows how stupid racists are.

On Five Live today they asked some people in a bar in Moscow about Germany defeat and the presenter did say is the euphoria about the fact a favorite is out or if it was because its Germany. The response from a seeming well educated women was that it was because it was Germany and that we will never get over the German thing.

Downside for anyone holidaying in Europe in the next two weeks I suppose is even more Germans by the pool taking the deck chairs and bath towels

 

[Grendel]

No, it wasn’t. She did say she was dropping the crap. And she did..at least in order to fool the voters. Maybe she is back to the old formula again... I will look later, but she is certainly not a good example of an alternative to the EU. Got anyone better?

The article did not say that - you just did not read it properly

 

[martcov]

On Five Live today they asked some people in a bar in Moscow about Germany defeat and the presenter did say is the euphoria about the fact a favorite is out or if it was because its Germany. The response from a seeming well educated women was that it was because it was Germany and that we will never get over the German thing.

Downside for anyone holidaying in Europe in the next two weeks I suppose is even more Germans by the pool taking the deck chairs and bath towels

Did she say she hated Germans? If they have something about Germany, it is hardly surprising given the history. I doubt whether she was stupid enough to say I hate Germans though. One thing getting one over them, another hating people for crimes that most living Germans never committed.

 

[martcov]

The article did not say that - you just did not read it properly

In the previous article that is exactly what she did in order to join up with another party. In this one she said Europe is dead in 6 months. Remind me when she said that...

 

[wingy]

Luckily the Strongbow in the EU comes from Firma Stassen in Belgium. Murphy’s Stout and Red come from Holland. And, I have Brother‘s and Weston‘s Ciders in my list. In the future more products will be produced in the EU under licence to avoid delays and tariffs.

BTW are European countries subject to this shortage of C O 2 as we're being advised it all comes in from over there apart from one new plant that came into action here last year.
All down to planned annual maintainance apparently.

 

[dutchman]

Could the migration crisis finish the EU?

Hardened Eurosceptics might love to think the EU's in trouble, but as leaders gather in Brussels for their summer summit on Thursday, dedicated Europhiles are also sounding the alarm.

"The fragility of the EU is increasing," warns EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker. "The cracks are growing in size."

In the meantime, there is no whiff of EU agreement over what to do with migrants who do reach Europe.

Which brings us back to the threat to Schengen.

Gloomy German government sources told me they gave the project a three out of 10 chance of survival thanks to the increasingly nationalistic nature of many European governments.

"And if Schengen does fail," they predict, "that would be the beginning of the end of the European Union."

 

[martcov]

Could the migration crisis finish the EU?

Hardened Eurosceptics might love to think the EU's in trouble, but as leaders gather in Brussels for their summer summit on Thursday, dedicated Europhiles are also sounding the alarm.

"The fragility of the EU is increasing," warns EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker. "The cracks are growing in size."

In the meantime, there is no whiff of EU agreement over what to do with migrants who do reach Europe.

Which brings us back to the threat to Schengen.

Gloomy German government sources told me they gave the project a three out of 10 chance of survival thanks to the increasingly nationalistic nature of many European governments.

"And if Schengen does fail," they predict, "that would be the beginning of the end of the European Union."

Yes. Just what you wish for. Chaos followed by endless disputes and nationalism resulting in a disaster for Europe which has been prevented since WWII. Still, I stand by commonsense and the more intelligent people who I think will find a solution. No right minded person should wish the EU to collapse.

It won’t.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I am for free movement of EU citizens within the EU.

I am for consensus on refugees treatment.

I am for control of non EU immigration according to deals struck with different countries by the EU.

It is not difficult really. People saying they hate Germans, Poles, Indians etc.purely because of their ethnicity are, by definition, racist.

There seems to be a lot popping up since Brexit. Grendel would have jumped on anyone posting that they hate a particular people a couple of years ago. Now he reposts people professing the hate for another group.

But the EU countries referred to where the right is growing are not Brexiting.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Yes. Just what you wish for. Chaos followed by endless disputes and nationalism resulting in a disaster for Europe which has been prevented since WWII. Still, I stand by commonsense and the more intelligent people who I think will find a solution. No right minded person should wish the EU to collapse.

It won’t.

You can forsee the future now? You are truly amazing...

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[wingy]

You can forsee the future now? You are truly amazing...

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Would you Ignore such a history ,malign stoking of the Issue from across the pond.
Nato about to be torpedoed by Trump?

 

[martcov]

You can forsee the future now? You are truly amazing...

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Well, I know that and it’s nice to see that you recognise that. You don’t have to be a clairvoyant to see that the collapse of the EU would cause huge chaos.

 

[martcov]

Would you Ignore such a history ,malign stoking of the Issue from across the pond.
Nato about to be torpedoed by Trump?

I would say that in trade war with the bully Trump, that the collapse or severe weakening of an alliance of 28 nations who are resisting him, will help him a lot. A bonus for Putin who has suffered under EU sanctions as well. Oh, look they are meeting in Helsinki in a couple of weeks. US ex allies not invited.

 

[dutchman]

It's a trade war was which the EU can't win and the US can't lose.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Would you Ignore such a history ,malign stoking of the Issue from across the pond.
Nato about to be torpedoed by Trump?

No I wouldn't...but History doesn't predict the future...Mart does that...especially in apparently civilised countries like those in the current EU. They disagree, but we would have to hope they don't respond to each other how they did 100 or so years ago. The WW2 doesn't count as that was pretty much caused by one or two utter maniacs...that wouldn't happen again in modern civilised societies - unless we go many steps backwards.

As for Trump - he says a lot of things doesn't he? Most of them he doesn't fulfil in any way...many he gets a small part toward his spoutings.

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[SkyblueBazza]

Well, I know that and it’s nice to see that you recognise that. You don’t have to be a clairvoyant to see that the collapse of the EU would cause huge chaos.

Distaster is now down-graded to huge chaos. Keep going & it will be spilt milk before England kick-off

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[martcov]

Distaster is now down-graded to huge chaos. Keep going & it will be spilt milk before England kick-off

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Disaster = Chaos = disaster. You can argue as to how big the disaster will be.

Leavers have predicted will get great trade deals. They can obviously see better into the future than I can. Take them up on that.

 

[martcov]

No I wouldn't...but History doesn't predict the future...Mart does that...especially in apparently civilised countries like those in the current EU. They disagree, but we would have to hope they don't respond to each other how they did 100 or so years ago. The WW2 doesn't count as that was pretty much caused by one or two utter maniacs...that wouldn't happen again in modern civilised societies - unless we go many steps backwards.

As for Trump - he says a lot of things doesn't he? Most of them he doesn't fulfil in any way...many he gets a small part toward his spoutings.

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Two maniacs? The place is crawling with them today. Two lunatics on the world stage would be an improvement.