Astute
Well-Known Member
No. You said they are not a problem as nobody would form a government with them. I said it would cause other problems. You said it wouldn't.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (23 Viewers)
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Astute
Well-Known Member
So me saying that I would prefer the persecuted to come here to live and work is now me saying bring them here and force them into hard labour?
Not true. But most would prefer it to being locked up after doing nothing wrong like Merkel and the EU are planning.
I said no one would form a government with them. They won’t. I said they are a bit like UKIP, they influence just by existing. I’ve said that several times. It is a thorn in the side. SPD seem not to take as much notice as CSU. Where I am 900 km from Munich and the Bavarian elections, they don’t have as much influence. At the moment.
You mentioned working as crop pickers. And no the persecuted don’t all want to stay here in the EU to pick fruit on a seasonal basis , and yes those that have their claim recognised can and do work in Germany as well as people like me from the EU. You don’t have to take away EU citizens freedoms to help someone fleeing a war zone. You can have both.
Still waiting on a solution from you other than fruit picking.
Here we go again. We have been through this a while ago. Yes, that is disgusting and hypocritical by Juncker. Progress has, apparently, been made in Luxemburg since then.
I am glad he is retiring. But...,, that it isn’t a get out of jail card for UKIP never voting for anti tax avoidance schemes. They abstain. Why? They represent the forgotten people, apparently, but not when it effects tax dodging.
It also has nothing to do with Russian owned gold mines, meetings in Moscow and links to the Moeller investigation. The implication of collusion with a country suffering under EU sanctions which would love to smash a trade alliance of 28 countries is far more dangerous than a country cheating financially. Although a unified approach to tax rates for business is an absolute necessity and I hope the EU does something about Luxemburg.
Again, you can have both. Countries like Luxemburg, Cyprus and Malta ( Lord Ashcroft‘s tax avoidance recommendation ) held to account, and the leave racket exposed and the people who deliberately set out to influence the leave vote through illlegal contributions or methods bought to justice. If the Banks, Farage etc. were working on a Russian agenda ( maybe being played ) or Bannon‘s agenda ( Farage was in with Bannon, Sessions and co before the leave campaign started ) then at the very least we should know just what the hell went on.
The country is split and the EU weakened which will profit our competitors, who funnily enough, are meeting in the EU ( without any EU members) in 2 weeks.
See my other post. But the CSU are trying to outdo the AfD in Bavaria to stave them off, and it is not working:
„However, opinion polls have suggested that Bavarians are more satisfied with Mrs Merkel than the CSU leader, weakening Mr Seehofer's position.“
The SPD have their own 5 Point Migration Plan. Which includes refusing to lock refugees up. In other words they are standing up to any threat from AfD. Actually, you should read their 5 point plan, it is more in line with your views ( and mine ). Apart from getting the refugees to pick crops...,
Our state prime minister is also against Seehofer for trying to compete on the right with AfD.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
More scattergunning from the government. I blame the EU No 10 produces new Brexit customs model
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Scattergunning or trying hard to find a workable solution?
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Given that it will be the third “workable” solution that the government has produced how can it be anything other than scatterguning? The government can’t get a consensus on how it should be done, they have then got to get the EU to agree what the government have agreed is the workable solution. Rees-Mogg is already on it, Boris seems to wait for Rees-Mogg to share an opinion before sharing his own and then you have Gove who apparently just rips them up in a tantrum. We’ll see what Friday brings when they thrash it out at chequers but I wouldn’t be surprised if they couldn’t agree on this one too.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Ah yeah let's debate your version of what I said.
So you think it is good to lock up innocent people?
And then you have innocent people getting locked up in Italy that the EU does know all about. They know that these people are not the named people Italy says. But they are just after very long prison sentences so it looks that they are getting the right people. All evidence was given in links.
So if they can change the identity of people so they can prosecute them how much faith would you have on imprisoning migrants and dealing with them truthfully?
Astute
Well-Known Member
And you are glad that we are stuck with him until 2021. You have said so enough times.
You also try and make out that small fish in the UK are worse than Juncker. So shall we have a look?
How about the MP expenses scandal in the UK? The MP's got prison sentences for doing false claims for up to 18k. Yes just up to £18,000.
Expenses MPs and their sentences: how long each served
So now on to Juncker. Whilst running Luxembourg....Not just MP.....he set up tax dodges that cost countries billions each year through tax evasion. Then for years he stopped the EU from looking into it. You can't deny it as it was all in the link I provided for you. What sentence did he get you might ask. WOW he got a top job with the EU.
So then you make out that they didn't know. I then reminded you that we voted against him getting the position and gave these reasons. Yet he still got the job. And you even said that we had a vote when he got the position.
Then you try and tell us that the EU isn't bent.
So now Juncker has his chance of revenge. He is making sure that we won't easily get a deal. He isn't interested in us getting one at all. Yet you praise the crook. He has done everything he can to make sure the EU doesn't look into his crimes. It ended up with the deal that he stands down in 2021.
Astute
Well-Known Member
None of this takes anything away from locking up innocent people. Once invisible anything could happen. Just like it is happening in Italy at present.
Astute
Well-Known Member
As I have said countless times before how do we know what and how much is needed if we don't have a clue about the trade deal?
Astute
Well-Known Member
How can we agree when Juncker doesn't want any sort of deal?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
How much what is needed? At least you’re admitting that we don’t have a clue. I guess that’s progress.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Says who? Aside from you.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what have I said previously that contradicts this?
You don't have to make any crap up about Brexit. There is enough crap already.
And just in case you have forgotten or not noticed I have even said several times that it looks like to have taken away my retirement plans.
The big problem I have with people who moan about the vote result is that they only look at the lies on one side and defend the other. I have a go at everyone. But the remainders always pick on my posts that have a go at the remain side yet ignore what I say against the leave side. Just like you have tried here.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what has he done to help towards any sort of deal?
Then think about what he has done against trying to get any sort of deal.
If you are honest you will agree with me. If you have your have a go at anyone but remain or the EU head on you then.......
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I note you didn’t answer the question.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What is he supposed to do exactly? Tell us what deal we need? I thought WE were taking back control? What has he done against trying to get any sort of a deal? We haven’t proposed anything yet for him to oppose have we? Reason being we don’t know what trade deal we want do we? Agree with what? There’s no substance to anything you’ve just said, it’s all empty rhetoric. You’ll be coming out with the magical “we all need to be positive” line next as if that can someone miraculously deliver an idea of what a trade deal should look like.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Answer what question? So which bit did I miss?
Or we can go back to my question that has never been answered. How did Juncker get his position in the EU. And how has he still got the job?
Astute
Well-Known Member
How about giving a clue what sort of trade deal would be acceptable instead of trying to work out problems that depend on what sort of trade deal there is when we don't know how much of a c**t he will continue to be.
You are talking about either gross incompetence or criminal acts committed by someone ( „they“ ) in Italy. Nothing to do with EU law or policy.
Ffs. It has been answered a million times. He was put forward as a candidate by the biggest group, a conservative group in the Parliament. Voted 26:2 by an electoral college- the Council - and confirmed by a majority vote in the parliament.
He was elected for a term which goes to, I think, 2021. at which time he will not stand for election again.
What bollocks! He was elected for a term that ends in 2021 and I am glad that he is going then. There is no election until the end of his term . So I can only be glad he is going at the end of his term.
Yes we had a vote on him. We voted with Hungary, but 26 other countries and than hundreds of MEPs voted for him as confirmation.
Juncker has no chance of revenge because Barnier is doing the negotiating and Guy whatever his name is, is representing the parliament. Any deal has to be approved by all other countries and the parliament. Juncker cannot stop or alter anything agreed with Barnier and confirmed by the council and parliament. Just Daily Express crap.
I have never praised Juncker. The other 26 countries think he is doing a good job. If there is a deal that he stands down because of „crimes“ which you claim happened, it wouldn’t be necessary a. Because he said he wants out anyway and b. It would be doubtful they would elect him again for the reasons you mentioned. I doubt whether there is a deal.
We have been asked to make an offer to the points: Irish Border, Citizens Rights and if we want to remain in the CU and SM ( if we aren’t remaining, what do we suggest as an alternative? ). We decided to leave. We cannot agree what we want. Our government are cxxts.
It is not Barnier‘s job to make our offers for us or to tell us what we should want. He has said what the EU wants. We cannot deliver.
So embarrassing.
According to us, we are in control, we will control our borders and we will have an acceptable solution to the Northern Ireland border. We are not in control because we need a transition period. We cannot control our borders because we don’t have the software, the infrastructure at the ports or trained personnel. We have no idea of how to solve the Northern Ireland border without breaking the GFA.
Now tell me that Juncker is a cxxt as an answer. As usual.
And your solution given the current right wing pressures? Let the asylum seekers in „wir schaffen das“? At the time this forum went into meltdown over cowards, lazy scroungers, terrorists, rapists, Muslims invading.... and I was a snowflake“ and daisy chain maker. Now, you are the hero sticking up for humanity ( because you can slag the EU off presumably).
Nothing has been agreed by the EU as there is 4 week time period and the words „voluntary basis“ crop up in some places. Seehofer says he will resign because the provisional “agreement“ has these clauses in it.
Good. One right wing chancer less in the government. The CSU will replace him and the government will go on.
Still waiting for your solution.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what is the policy of dealing with those who bring the people to the EU countries?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You said (and I quote) “how do we know what and how much is needed”. To which I replied (again, and I quote) “how much what is needed?”. It’s a very simple question. What is “what”?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Has it? It has never been answered properly once.
Let's try again.
How can someone who has defrauded EU countries out of billions of tax each year and then thwart the EU from looking into the matter then end up with a top EU job with them in the full knowledge of what he has done?
Astute
Well-Known Member
Juncker is a C unt. And people like yourself defend him all the way. Then you attack people that have done much less than him by using either what he set up or something copying what he set up.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So the only solution is to lock them all up like Juncker and Merkel want?
Astute
Well-Known Member
'What' is what you are talking about. My reply was how can we sort 'what' out if we won't know what the trade agreement is until everything else is sorted out.
So we need to sort out the border of Ireland. Will there be any duties to collect? We don't know. But we have to have an answer without knowing what the question is. But you already know that.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So the EU have to tell us what brexit is? Is that what you’re saying? I clearly remember lines such as “we’re taking back control”, “we know what we voted for”, “we’re negotiating from a position of strength and can dictate terms “ etc etc. If there was any truth in any of that why should we be, as you suggest, asking the EU to give us a clue? Are you seriously suggesting that we triggered article 50 with no idea of what brexit trade deal should look like?
There was me thinking that we voted leave so the EU could no longer dictate to us yet you’re saying that they should.