The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (270 Viewers)

[martcov]

A bit like your national allegiance!

It is called pragmatism.

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

Well you are wrong there, because those who get money for doing nothing have already got guarantees for at least the short term and that includes prominent leavers like IDS.

And yes people are worried about the promises of great trade deals based on what has happened so far.

You don't think that what has happened so far has been significantly hampered by working out an exit deal do you?

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[SkyblueBazza]

Where there are no deals. Obviously. But the EU has many deals and is working on more. Some comprehensive, some specific. I don’t see the problem. Nothing unusual about that. How many deals has the U.K. got?

True...you do not see any problem with anything the EU does...which is a problem in itself.
Well I saw last week alone the China Beef & Australian BAE deals go through. And just as vaguely can assure you that many more are being worked upon.

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[Grendel]

The fact is you simply don’t want to debate or understand the finer points of brexit. You just want to trade insults, which also seems to be your definition of always answering the question.

The BCC’s list of questions are pertinent to every single resident in the UK, every single question and every single person. Whether that be the way you do your job and the company you work for operates at one end of the spectrum to the way goods arrive at the shops at the other.

Your response to this was initially to ignore it, then ask me the completely irrelevant question of have I ever been to a Chamber of Commerce to then trading insults. You’ve demonstrated completely from your own response that you either have no understanding of the questions that the BCC has asked either in why they’ve asked them and what the response should be or you’re burying your head in the sand because the only possible answers are negative on brexit, asks more questions than answers that are uncomfortable for a brexit backer to answer and they’re irrelevant because brexit at any cost is more important than doing what’s best by Britain, British businesses and the British people to you.

Tony you can’t even get a question right. First it’s do I understand the questions and then it’s can I answer them. Which is it?

Other than Mad Mart no one cares what you think. As for trading insults I suggest you visit your posting history - anyone who has an alternative view gets some failed attempt at a point down and a tired joke.

Before levelling those accusations take a look in the mirror

 

[Astute]

You say that. The details haven’t been agreed. Anyway I thought leavers believe they all want to invade the U.K. and scrounge of the state. Has the UK taken hundreds of thousands of refugees?

No, of course not. So before you start slagging other governments off take a look at the UKs weak and wobbly Tory anti business, anti humanity government.

Details haven't been agreed? Only where they will be imprisoned hasn't been agreed.

You don't like it when the EU shows what it is really like.

 

[martcov]

True...you do not see any problem with anything the EU does...which is a problem in itself.
Well I saw last week alone the China Beef & Australian BAE deals go through. And just as vaguely can assure you that many more are being worked upon.

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Not yet. And the rest of the EU has the beef deals with China... anyway

 

[martcov]

Details haven't been agreed? Only where they will be imprisoned hasn't been agreed.

You don't like it when the EU shows what it is really like.

Desperate. Who will be imprisoned and for how long? In which prison?

 

[Astute]

The reality is that the U.K. is not taking in it’s share of refugees.

How many is Germany taking?

Oh yes just remembered. That is why they are stranded in the south.

 

[martcov]

Tony you can’t even get a question right. First it’s do I understand the questions and then it’s can I answer them. Which is it?

Other than Mad Mart no one cares what you think. As for trading insults I suggest you visit your posting history - anyone who has an alternative view gets some failed attempt at a point down and a tired joke.

Before levelling those accusations take a look in the mirror

„No one“ being you Astute and Bazza. Maybe Dutchman on a bad day, but that is about it.

 

[Astute]

Desperate. Who will be imprisoned and for how long? In which prison?

If they can hold and prosecute people in Italy knowing that they are not the person they say....as in innocent people getting prosecuted....how is anyone to trust what happens to more innocent people?

 

[martcov]

How many is Germany taking?

Oh yes just remembered. That is why they are stranded in the south.

I just posted the figures for 2016. 2015 was lots more. And 2017 a bit less. Now tell me, who is stranded? Why are they stranded? And how many are there? Now... what is the story in the U.K.? and why have you suddenly become „humane“? Let me guess, you’ve worn Juncker out, and Grendel’s on to Tusk, so now you have become a snowflake leftie like me. Just to get at the EU because Brexit is becoming the farce that I always said it would.

 

[martcov]

If they can hold and prosecute people in Italy knowing that they are not the person they say....as in innocent people getting prosecuted....how is anyone to trust what happens to more innocent people?

FFS that is a criminal act against the EU Charter. Not EU policy.

 

[Astute]

Yet you come out with something about Polish pensions and Astute about Juncker’s tax deals. Why don’t you just admit the bloody obvious, that Brexit up until now has been a total cock up?

So who has said that negotiations have gone well?

Everyone is in agreement that it hasn't gone well. But some try to ignore why it hasn't gone well so far.

Forget the tax dodges that cost EU countries billions each year? Ignore that Juncker stopped the EU from looking into his tax dodges as you admit? Then he gets a top job at the EU.

We tried to stop him from getting that position. You also know that. You know it was because of his tax dodges. So did the whole of the EU. Yet you defend him. Then you attack anyone that used a tax dodge for a small amount of money who is anti EU. So now Juncker wants revenge.

Yet you don't want it mentioned. I wonder why.

 

[Astute]

FFS that is a criminal act against the EU Charter. Not EU policy.

So why has the EU done nothing?

What is the use of an EU charter if it is ignored?

 

[Astute]

I just posted the figures for 2016. 2015 was lots more. And 2017 a bit less. Now tell me, who is stranded? Why are they stranded? And how many are there? Now... what is the story in the U.K.? and why have you suddenly become „humane“? Let me guess, you’ve worn Juncker out, and Grendel’s on to Tusk, so now you have become a snowflake leftie like me. Just to get at the EU because Brexit is becoming the farce that I always said it would.

I have always said that I would prefer people who need safety over someone who is here because of an EU passport. You are the one who seems totally against it now the EU want to imprison innocent people.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Not yet. And the rest of the EU has the beef deals with China... anyway

What is 'Not yet'? Are you rambling again?

As for the EU Beef deal...I know about that. But that wasn't going to form any part of an answer to a question about deals Britain has made was it? So I can't really fathom why you are attempting school playground retorts...unless you are trying to impress Tony

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[skybluetony176]

Tony you can’t even get a question right. First it’s do I understand the questions and then it’s can I answer them. Which is it?

Other than Mad Mart no one cares what you think. As for trading insults I suggest you visit your posting history - anyone who has an alternative view gets some failed attempt at a point down and a tired joke.

Before levelling those accusations take a look in the mirror

Case and point. Thank you for the further confirmation although not needed. I’m going for all possibilities on why you won’t debate the finer points. You’re burying your head in the sand because you don’t understand the finer points and the narcissist in you doesn’t care because brexit at any cost is what you want.

 

[skybluetony176]

Brexit fishing industry plans outlined

That’s as clear as mud then. The common fisheries policy is as I’ve said numerous times on this thread mental, completely mental and damaging to the environment especially fishing stocks. We had a real opportunity here to do something forward thinking yet it seems that we’re just going to get the current arrangement in all but name with the only real change being the amount we keep ourselves.

We needed wholesale change with a land what you catch policy which won’t contribute to the decimation of fishing stocks and reduce the amount of time boats are out at sea throwing dead fish overboard because they don’t meet quotas while continuing to chase fish that do. Opportunity missed. Who will benefit? Tells you that at the end of the article.

 

[martcov]

You don't think that what has happened so far has been significantly hampered by working out an exit deal do you?

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No. I think it has been hampered because no one planned there being a Brexit. There was no consensus on what people were voting for. They had an array of different reasons for voting leave, some rational beliefs and many crazy reasons or beliefs.

The leave leaders have been less than honest and have shirked their responsibilities. Where is the leave leadership? BoJo: fuck business, Gove: Ripped up the reports, Davis: deny the impact reports, then deny the conclusions of the real impact reports. Mogg opening an office in Dublin. The hedge fund he grounded investing in Russia and hardly anything in Brexit Britain.

Farage playing the old final victory game... saying despite us probably taking a hit, we will win in an unknown quantity of years ( Endsieg). Ashcroft, Belize Lord Tax Dodger Extraordinaire, advising U.K. firms to open offices in Malta to dodge taxes and stay in the EU.

No wonder we’re screwed.

 

[martcov]

What is 'Not yet'? Are you rambling again?

As for the EU Beef deal...I know about that. But that wasn't going to form any part of an answer to a question about deals Britain has made was it? So I can't really fathom why you are attempting school playground retorts...unless you are trying to impress Tony

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I am not. I read somewhere that it could take another couple of months.

 

[martcov]

If they can hold and prosecute people in Italy knowing that they are not the person they say....as in innocent people getting prosecuted....how is anyone to trust what happens to more innocent people?

I really don’t know. That is point of the journalist bringing this into the open. It’s up to the Italian prosecutors to get to the bottom of it.

 

[martcov]

So who has said that negotiations have gone well?

Everyone is in agreement that it hasn't gone well. But some try to ignore why it hasn't gone well so far.

Forget the tax dodges that cost EU countries billions each year? Ignore that Juncker stopped the EU from looking into his tax dodges as you admit? Then he gets a top job at the EU.

We tried to stop him from getting that position. You also know that. You know it was because of his tax dodges. So did the whole of the EU. Yet you defend him. Then you attack anyone that used a tax dodge for a small amount of money who is anti EU. So now Juncker wants revenge.

Yet you don't want it mentioned. I wonder why.

Maybe because we are discussing Brexit and possible criminality in the U.K. with reference to people involved in Brexit.

Luxemburg is another subject.

 

[martcov]

So why has the EU done nothing?

What is the use of an EU charter if it is ignored?

Because it is up to the Italian public prosecutor where these alleged crimes have been committed not the EU Parliament, Commission or Council.

 

[Grendel]

Case and point. Thank you for the further confirmation although not needed. I’m going for all possibilities on why you won’t debate the finer points. You’re burying your head in the sand because you don’t understand the finer points and the narcissist in you doesn’t care because brexit at any cost is what you want.

No Tony I don’t understand please help me - please Tony what does it all mean Tony?

 

[martcov]

What is 'Not yet'? Are you rambling again?

As for the EU Beef deal...I know about that. But that wasn't going to form any part of an answer to a question about deals Britain has made was it? So I can't really fathom why you are attempting school playground retorts...unless you are trying to impress Tony

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Not yet = up to 3 years.

"The announcement on Wednesday by the Department of Environment, Foodand Rural Affairs (Defra) will now allow official market access negotiations to begin – a process which typically takes about three years."

 

[skybluetony176]

This would be a good starting point for a Fisheries Policy post brexit, especially when it comes to discarding. Which there is a whole section on. https://www.regjeringen.no/globalassets/upload/fkd/brosjyrer-og-veiledninger/fact_sheet_discard.pdf

There is a warning though for the fish processing industry in the U.K. Both sides of the argument is covered in this article The Norwegian model: How does it work?

Something that the Scottish Farmed Salmon industry is already contemplating http://scottishsalmon.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Brexit-statement-final.pdf

 

[skybluetony176]

Not yet = up to 3 years.

"The announcement on Wednesday by the Department of Environment, Foodand Rural Affairs (Defra) will now allow official market access negotiations to begin – a process which typically takes about three years."

The linked article also has a bit more detail than the article I linked earlier and says that the government has pledged to end the practice of discarding. UK to 'take charge' of its fishing waters under post-Brexit plan I’m pleased by that, that’s what I was hoping for. It’s far more sensible than the current system we operate under and a genuine argument for leave.

 

[chiefdave]

Well I saw last week alone the China Beef & Australian BAE deals go through.

You mentioned both of those last week but didn't reply to my question of how they related to leaving the EU?

One puts the UK 3 years behind as a result of Brexit and the other benefits a country on the opposite side of the world!

How are either of those related to Brexit?

Reading about the beef deal with China it appears the Chinese have been inspecting facilities around Europe since well before the referendum with a view to lifting the ban. The ban has already been lifted in some EU countries and is expected to be lifted shortly in others.

It seems that we will actually have a 3 year delay as we have to agree a replacement for the EU export process with the Chinese before they will accept our beef. This will give the countries remaining in the EU time to tie up their deals before our exports start.

The BAE deal appears to be their Australian arm and according to BAE will benefit Australia "creating thousands of jobs, supporting new industries and boosting the national supply chain for decades to come".

I'd love to hear some good Brexit news but I'm not sure this is it.

 

[skybluetony176]

You mentioned both of those last week but didn't reply to my question of how they related to leaving the EU?

One puts the UK 3 years behind as a result of Brexit and the other benefits a country on the opposite side of the world!

BAE wins huge Australian warship contract
Is this the BAE story? Sounds like it will help BAE’s share price, not sure what benefits the man in the U.K. street will get from it though.

Wasn’t it our fault that beef export was stopped to places like China from the EU in the first place? Wasn’t it the BSE crisis that triggered it?

 

[chiefdave]

The linked article also has a bit more detail than the article I linked earlier and says that the government has pledged to end the practice of discarding. UK to 'take charge' of its fishing waters under post-Brexit plan I’m pleased by that, that’s what I was hoping for. It’s far more sensible than the current system we operate under and a genuine argument for leave.

Would be nice to see a win and something that could be held up as a clear example of a leave vote benefiting us.

In practice how would it work given that the UK has already sold some of its quota to forgiven vessels and how much of the UK catch is for export? Getting in to trade wars isn't going to benefit our fishermen or the consumer.

 

[skybluetony176]

Would be nice to see a win and something that could be held up as a clear example of a leave vote benefiting us.

In practice how would it work given that the UK has already sold some of its quota to forgiven vessels and how much of the UK catch is for export? Getting in to trade wars isn't going to benefit our fishermen or the consumer.

Well there is three things that are concrete benefits of leave. Improved Fisheries Policy if what’s being touted happens, we can sell twice as many pigs ears to China because we may not have to tag them in one ear and cheaper oranges.

I’m not going to include things that we could do anyway such as blue passports and the lowering of the VAT rate.

 

[martcov]

Details haven't been agreed? Only where they will be imprisoned hasn't been agreed.

You don't like it when the EU shows what it is really like.

Detained maximum a week and free to return to Austria in a detention centre if they want, but not allowed to enter Germany without clearance. Only migrants that have been registered in another country. Only at 3 crossing points.

Seeing as the door is open to Austria and they are not in a prison, you can hardly say they are being imprisoned.

 

[Grendel]

I can’t think what the next straw clutching topic the dribbling lunatics will bring up next

Well actually I can

 

[Astute]

Maybe because we are discussing Brexit and possible criminality in the U.K. with reference to people involved in Brexit.

Luxemburg is another subject.

But they cancelled the Brexit talks to have talks about imprisoning migrants. Yet they can't have talks about an EU country prosecuting innocent people?

 

[Astute]

Detained maximum a week and free to return to Austria in a detention centre if they want, but not allowed to enter Germany without clearance. Only migrants that have been registered in another country. Only at 3 crossing points.

Seeing as the door is open to Austria and they are not in a prison, you can hardly say they are being imprisoned.

Are you up to date with what is going on?

Angela Merkel facing fresh migration crisis as Austria threatens to throw up border controls

Migrant holding centres: first Germany, now Austria