Stomach turning (35 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

Laughable little do gooder ! You're a joke and your insulting lefty lunatic fringe will all again be frothing at the mouth about the disgust aimed at the culprits once more rather than the actual hideous crime......until the next time eh and then it will be all rinse and repeat and the same automatic responses??

can you point to one post on this tread where someone has tried to defend the culprits?
Attacking your ill informed agenda driven rhetoric is not the same as defending the people responsible for this crime although you obviously don't have the ability to understand that.

 

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[Ashdown]

can you point to one post on this tread where someone has tried to defend the culprits?
Attacking your ill informed agenda driven rhetoric is not the same as defending the people responsible for this crime although you obviously don't have the ability to understand that.

I understand exactly what the agenda of some is on all these similar type of incidents.....I'm just appalled by the crime full stop until some idiot starts the same unnecessary mantra ' they're not all bad ' before anyone has even implied that.

 

[skybluegod]

What do you plan on teaching somebody who has thrown acid in a kid's face? How would you even start with that?

It isn't like it was a couple of teenagers playing about with acid and it spilt, it is a man who clearly knew what he was doing.

Sorry I don’t have a fully coherent plan unsurpsingly...
how do you plan on raping him? Yourself? A friend?

I’m not saying what he did was right? I’m saying he is a disgusting man.
I am simply saying. He doesn’t deserve TO BE RAPED/BEATEN/TORTURED

 

[skybluegod]

For some then no, they won't have anything to their name. (Lower end druggies, street crime etc)

Others however could pay for more than you can imagine. Like I said, brand new Audi's, Designer Clothes sent in, iPhones for £1000.

But that’s not the point is it Nick. If the prison system worked properly. And funding for it wasn’t cut that wouldn’t be happening.

 

[skybluegod]

I understand exactly what the agenda of some is on all these similar type of incidents.....I'm just appalled by the crime full stop until some idiot starts the same unnecessary mantra ' they're not all bad ' before anyone has even implied that.

You have implied that though? You are saying we should ban a whole religion from the country because you are a moron.

 

[Nick]

But that’s not the point is it Nick. If the prison system worked properly. And funding for it wasn’t cut that wouldn’t be happening.

That's exactly what happens, it's all well saying ifs and buts about if there was more funding. The bloke who did it will get a more comfortable life than the child.

 

[skybluegod]

Laughable little do gooder ! You're a joke and your insulting lefty lunatic fringe will all again be frothing at the mouth about the disgust aimed at the culprits once more rather than the actual hideous crime......until the next time eh and then it will be all rinse and repeat and the same automatic responses??

You realise that I am right wing?
I just don’t put up with racism. And inhuman behaviour?
What he did was wrong everyone on this thread has said so.
Some just don’t think it’s right for 1) a certain category of people to be blamed
2) for the punishment to be so severe

 

[skybluegod]

That's exactly what happens, it's all well saying ifs and buts about if there was more funding. The bloke who did it will get a more comfortable life than the child.

No nick you are missing the point and ignoring any of the other points I have made which you don’t have an adequate answer to?
It’s about making things better IN THE LONG TERM not about getting even.
You are either being naive by wanting short term vengeance. Or you are so emotionally attached to the topic that you can’t see the long term benefits of what I am saying.

It’s all good saying ‘it’s and buts’ but I for one don’t wish to accept society how it is today. So I will give my view on how things should be done for the long term and greater good rather short sightedness

 

[Nick]

No nick you are missing the point and ignoring any of the other points I have made which you don’t have an adequate answer to?
It’s about making things better IN THE LONG TERM not about getting even.
You are either being naive by wanting short term vengeance. Or you are so emotionally attached to the topic that you can’t see the long term benefits of what I am saying.

It’s all good saying ‘it’s and buts’ but I for one don’t wish to accept society how it is today. So I will give my view on how things should be done for the long term and greater good rather short sightedness

I'm not missing any points.

There is always going to be wrong uns who will do things like this, how is sending him to prison going to change that? How is giving him a comfortable lifestyle behind bars going to make any difference? How do you approach teaching people not to throw acid at kids?

I think you are being very naive about what you think will actually happen when he goes to prison. You say that by doing that it will prevent it from happening again, how's that?

I am attached as a parent and what if it was to happen to my daughter. Some little prick sat comfortable in prison making friends, smoking his drugs and watching TV while my daughter's life was completely ruined. Who in their right mind is going to say "Its ok, it's justice he is in prison and it will stop it from happening again if tell people not to throw acid in faces".

 

[Otis]

I'm not missing any points.

There is always going to be wrong uns who will do things like this, how is sending him to prison going to change that? How is giving him a comfortable lifestyle behind bars going to make any difference? How do you approach teaching people not to throw acid at kids?

I think you are being very naive about what you think will actually happen when he goes to prison. You say that by doing that it will prevent it from happening again, how's that?

I am attached as a parent and what if it was to happen to my daughter. Some little prick sat comfortable in prison making friends, smoking his drugs and watching TV while my daughter's life was completely ruined. Who in their right mind is going to say "Its ok, it's justice he is in prison and it will stop it from happening again if tell people not to throw acid in faces".

I don't think it SHOULD be a comfortable life behind bars. It should be education and hard work and adjustment.

 

[skybluegod]

I'm not missing any points.

There is always going to be wrong uns who will do things like this, how is sending him to prison going to change that? How is giving him a comfortable lifestyle behind bars going to make any difference? How do you approach teaching people not to throw acid at kids?

I think you are being very naive about what you think will actually happen when he goes to prison. You say that by doing that it will prevent it from happening again, how's that?

I am attached as a parent and what if it was to happen to my daughter. Some little prick sat comfortable in prison making friends, smoking his drugs and watching TV while my daughter's life was completely ruined. Who in their right mind is going to say "Its ok, it's justice he is in prison and it will stop it from happening again if tell people not to throw acid in faces".

Well you are you missed out a large majority of previous points.

Yes but it’s needs to be few and far between it’s becoming regular in London?
Wait so your solution is rape assault and torture? Why is that justice? You can’t criticise me. But then want to do equally as bad things to him.

Education isn’t just telling them not to do it again. And if you think that is what education is? You need to go back to school.

I know exactly what goes on in prison, I have been offered 1) a job in the prison service but declined due to the nature of prison services 2) I have friends who have served and currently serve in it. So I know what goes on in prison. As I had said 3 times. The justice and prison service is not efficient and does not work currently. But that doesn’t mean the premise is wrong but the funding isn’t there.
They are off the street so how can it happen again?

I don’t remember ever saying that? But I don’t think rape solves it? Or assault? Or torture?

 

[skybluegod]

I don't think it SHOULD be a comfortable life behind bars. It should be education and hard work and adjustment.

Bingo! Somebody gets it.
This is exactly what it SHOULD be but sadly isn’t at this moment in time.

 

[Nick]

I don't think it SHOULD be a comfortable life behind bars. It should be education and hard work and adjustment.

It won't be, it goes against "human rights".

 

[Otis]

It won't be, it goes against "human rights".

Well that's ridiculous.

I don't see how having people work as a punishment goes against their human rights.

How does that work then when people get these community work sentences? That's making them work without pay. How does that not impinge upon their human rights?

 

[Nick]

Well you are you missed out a large majority of previous points.

Yes but it’s needs to be few and far between it’s becoming regular in London?
Wait so your solution is rape assault and torture? Why is that justice? You can’t criticise me. But then want to do equally as bad things to him.

Education isn’t just telling them not to do it again. And if you think that is what education is? You need to go back to school.

I know exactly what goes on in prison, I have been offered 1) a job in the prison service but declined due to the nature of prison services 2) I have friends who have served and currently serve in it. So I know what goes on in prison. As I had said 3 times. The justice and prison service is not efficient and does not work currently. But that doesn’t mean the premise is wrong but the funding isn’t there.
They are off the street so how can it happen again?

I don’t remember ever saying that? But I don’t think rape solves it? Or assault? Or torture?

Again, how do you want to educate people not to throw acid in kid's faces? It's becoming regular because more and more they get a prison sentence and that's it, nice comfortable few years. They link up with their mates and run the gangs inside the prison.

So, you are saying just send him to prison based on how you want prison to work rather than how it actually works? Knowing full well what goes on in prison I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if it was my child knowing how cushty they would be living.

Being "off the street" means nothing, people run gangs and order hits from inside prison.

 

[Otis]

Again, how do you want to educate people not to throw acid in kid's faces? It's becoming regular because more and more they get a prison sentence and that's it, nice comfortable few years. They link up with their mates and run the gangs inside the prison.

So, you are saying just send him to prison based on how you want prison to work rather than how it actually works? Knowing full well what goes on in prison I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if it was my child knowing how cushty they would be living.

Being "off the street" means nothing, people run gangs and order hits from inside prison.

Maybe we should have a Purge Night.

 

[Nick]

Well that's ridiculous.

I don't see how having people work as a punishment goes against their human rights.

How does that work then when people get these community work sentences? That's making them work without pay. How does that not impinge upon their human rights?

That's not really hard slog though is it? I bet somebody picking litter or painting an old people's home isn't really that offputting when throwing acid at people's faces. Normal people do things day in like this because they have to pay to survive.

 

[Grendel]

I don't think it SHOULD be a comfortable life behind bars. It should be education and hard work and adjustment.

How do you educate and adjust Mr Huntley out of interest?

 

[Nick]

Maybe we should have a Purge Night.

It wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

 

[Sick Boy]

You realise that I am right wing?
I just don’t put up with racism. And inhuman behaviour?
What he did was wrong everyone on this thread has said so.
Some just don’t think it’s right for 1) a certain category of people to be blamed
2) for the punishment to be so severe

These bigots label anyone who disagrees with them as left-wing.

 

[Otis]

How do you educate and adjust Mr Huntley out of interest?

Don't think you can. Obviously it wouldn't work on many of the sick individuals behind bars.

 

[Otis]

These bigots label anyone who disagrees with them as left-wing.

We're either lefties or snowflakes.

 

[skybluegod]

Again, how do you want to educate people not to throw acid in kid's faces? It's becoming regular because more and more they get a prison sentence and that's it, nice comfortable few years. They link up with their mates and run the gangs inside the prison.

So, you are saying just send him to prison based on how you want prison to work rather than how it actually works? Knowing full well what goes on in prison I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if it was my child knowing how cushty they would be living.

Being "off the street" means nothing, people run gangs and order hits from inside prison.

AGAIN, selective posts. I have already said I don’t have a full plan Nick? But then again I’m not paid to have a full plan. But I think it’s stupid to believe people can’t change.
Really is that the case? Any evidence for that?

Avoiding the question nick? How would you deal with it? Because rape, assualt and torture isn’t the way. So come on give me a solution?

I’m saying prison needs to be improved for it to work effectively yes. But I would rather spend time and energy as a nation doing that. Than to resort to the type of stuff that you want. That’s barbaric and doesn’t belong in this age.

 

[Nick]

AGAIN, selective posts. I have already said I don’t have a full plan Nick? But then again I’m not paid to have a full plan. But I think it’s stupid to believe people can’t change.
Really is that the case? Any evidence for that?

Avoiding the question nick? How would you deal with it? Because rape, assualt and torture isn’t the way. So come on give me a solution?

I’m saying prison needs to be improved for it to work effectively yes. But I would rather spend time and energy as a nation doing that. Than to resort to the type of stuff that you want. That’s barbaric and doesn’t belong in this age.

How would I deal with it if it was my child? I'd make sure his life was hell inside if he made it that far, amazing what the smackheads do for a bag of spice. I'd make sure every prison he went to there would be a price on his head to do as much damage as physically possible to him. I'd have no qualms in doing it myself if I got the chance.

Throwing acid in kid's faces doesn't belong in any age either and people like that don't know anything else if they have the capability to do that.

The softly softly must not be nasty to them and make them better people approach doesn't work. We aren't talking about somebody who got pissed up and had a fight and they fell funny and the other person was injured or a petty criminal, this is somebody who targetted a 3 year old with acid.

Which bit do you want evidence about? Running gangs, ordering hits or linking up with their mates?

Can't be naive enough to just say "well if prison was how I wanted it I'd want them to go there" surely?

 

[clint van damme]

I'm just appalled by the crime full

a quick read of your posts on this thread proves that statement is bullshit.
You may be appalled by the crime but you were quick to try and use it to push your agenda. Petty point scoring means more to you than genuine empathy for the victim.

 

[duffer]

Laughable little do gooder ! You're a joke and your insulting lefty lunatic fringe will all again be frothing at the mouth about the disgust aimed at the culprits once more rather than the actual hideous crime......until the next time eh and then it will be all rinse and repeat and the same automatic responses??

I'll tell you what pisses me off about this kind of bullshit. It's the implication that to be strong on law and order, or patriotic, you need to be on the far right and believe that prison should be caves filled with spiky dildos, lava and giant spiders. It's laughable.

You've only got to look at the behaviour of the 'Free Tommy' twats towards the police to see how much respect they've really got for the law. Hypocritical cunts. Compare and contrast with, for example, the last 'lefty' TUC march in London... tens of thousands, no arrests. So who are the real lunatics here, eh?

And by the same logic, if we need to make prison an unbearable option for criminals, would it be OK if Tommy got raped and tortured in jail too? I mean he's a convicted criminal, and for far more than just the one offence.

(Btw anyone who thinks prison is an easy option hasn't really bothered to keep up with the news... right-wingers in particular seem to struggle with cognitive bias on this issue.)

Moving along, I can tell you now why the racists and far-right nutters always lose in the end. They try to make everything about race (or these days, religion) but deep down they know what they're saying doesn't make sense. Because of that embarassment they need to hide their beliefs except behind the anonymity of social media, or when they've got enough thuggish mates standing behind them. Me, even though I work in a very conservative (big and small c) type of industry, I never feel obliged to hide my politics behind a "I'm not a ... but".

So mercifully, and despite all of the hate-filled bigotry and shoe-horned racism that's on the rise, there are still more reasonable people around than rabid nutters. But I think it's important to challenge the idiocy every time it pops up because clearly there are still plenty of easily led people out there. Bless 'em, some of these precious little snowflakes need someone to blame for their lot in life, but they find it a bit too hard to think for themselves.

 

[Nick]

I'll tell you what pisses me off about this kind of bullshit. It's the implication that to be strong on law and order, or patriotic, you need to be on the far right and believe that prison should be caves filled with spiky dildos, lava and giant spiders. It's laughable.

You've only got to look at the behaviour of the 'Free Tommy' twats towards the police to see how much respect they've really got for the law. Hypocritical cunts. Compare and contrast with, for example, the last 'lefty' TUC march in London... tens of thousands, no arrests. So who are the real lunatics here, eh?

And by the same logic, if we need to make prison an unbearable option for criminals, would it be OK if Tommy got raped and tortured in jail too? I mean he's a convicted criminal, and for far more than just the one offence.

(Btw anyone who thinks prison is an easy option hasn't really bothered to keep up with the news... right-wingers in particular seem to struggle with cognitive bias on this issue.)

Moving along, I can tell you now why the racists and far-right nutters always lose in the end. They try to make everything about race (or these days, religion) but deep down they know what they're saying doesn't make sense. Because of that embarassment they need to hide their beliefs except behind the anonymity of social media, or when they've got enough thuggish mates standing behind them. Me, even though I work in a very conservative (big and small c) type of industry, I never feel obliged to hide my politics behind a "I'm not a ... but".

So mercifully, and despite all of the hate-filled bigotry and shoe-horned racism that's on the rise, there are still more reasonable people around than rabid nutters. But I think it's important to challenge the idiocy every time it pops up because clearly there are still plenty of easily led people out there. Bless 'em, some of these precious little snowflakes need someone to blame for their lot in life, but they find it a bit too hard to think for themselves.

Surely people can separate different crimes? It's like on the other thread where somebody said having a convicted child sex offender living next door was no different to any other convicted criminal.

It isn't just "convicted criminal" or "non convicted criminal" so it would depend on the crime for me. Petty theft although I hate theft isn't in the same level as squirting acid in a child's face is it?

Without it going all about politics, right wing, race, left wing etc it's nothing to do with what race they are (for me anyway). It's the sickening thought of doing something like that to a child.

What's been in the news to say that prison isn't an easy option?

 

[duffer]

How would I deal with it if it was my child? I'd make sure his life was hell inside if he made it that far, amazing what the smackheads do for a bag of spice. I'd make sure every prison he went to there would be a price on his head to do as much damage as physically possible to him. I'd have no qualms in doing it myself if I got the chance.

Throwing acid in kid's faces doesn't belong in any age either and people like that don't know anything else if they have the capability to do that.

The softly softly must not be nasty to them and make them better people approach doesn't work. We aren't talking about somebody who got pissed up and had a fight and they fell funny and the other person was injured or a petty criminal, this is somebody who targetted a 3 year old with acid.

Which bit do you want evidence about? Running gangs, ordering hits or linking up with their mates?

Can't be naive enough to just say "well if prison was how I wanted it I'd want them to go there" surely?

Three reasons why we have prisons:

1) Punish the guilty by removing their liberty.
2) Protect society from those who offend.
3) Rehabilitate.

If you think about it, 2 and 3 are actually quite closely linked. If people are coming out of prison worse than they go in, brutalised, more violent, addicted to drugs, unemployable, then it's going to be worse for all of us. This has fuck all with being soft on criminals. I'd lock these bastards up for a long time to cover off 1 and 2 above. Whatever the Daily Mail says, prison is not a good place to be, now more than ever.

Either you believe in the law, or you don't - and if you don't then the only law becomes might makes right.

 

[duffer]

Surely people can separate different crimes? It's like on the other thread where somebody said having a convicted child sex offender living next door was no different to any other convicted criminal.

It isn't just "convicted criminal" or "non convicted criminal" so it would depend on the crime for me. Petty theft although I hate theft isn't in the same level as squirting acid in a child's face is it?

Without it going all about politics, right wing, race, left wing etc it's nothing to do with what race they are (for me anyway). It's the sickening thought of doing something like that to a child.

What's been in the news to say that prison isn't an easy option?

Nick mate, what's been in the news to say it is? When you've got HM Inspector of Prisons (a branch of the Government, not a lefty think-tank!), saying this...

"The year 2017–18 was a dramatic period in which HM Inspectorate of Prisons documented some of the most disturbing prison conditions we have ever seen – conditions which have no place in an advanced nation in the 21st century."

Then you know that being inside isn't an easy option. The report is here.

 

[Nick]

Three reasons why we have prisons:

1) Punish the guilty by removing their liberty.
2) Protect society from those who offend.
3) Rehabilitate.

If you think about it, 2 and 3 are actually quite closely linked. If people are coming out of prison worse than they go in, brutalised, more violent, addicted to drugs, unemployable, then it's going to be worse for all of us. This has fuck all with being soft on criminals. I'd lock these bastards up for a long time to cover off 1 and 2 above. Whatever the Daily Mail says, prison is not a good place to be, now more than ever.

Either you believe in the law, or you don't - and if you don't then the only law becomes might makes right.

Yep, I watched the documentary about the Birmingham Prison. It's the guards who are more at risk than the prisoners.

How well do you think points 1,2 and 3 work? Bearing in mind how rife drug use, mobile phones and everything else is in Prison?

How do you rehabilitate somebody who could throw acid at a child?

I don't think ALL criminals should be locked up anyway, it's pointless for so many of them and just adds to overcrowding.

 

[Grendel]

Don't think you can. Obviously it wouldn't work on many of the sick individuals behind bars.

So we just pay for Mr Huntley until his old age and we offer NHS care for mr Huntley when required. No doubt if it’s inadequate he can take legal aid and sue for negligence like the charming fellow who beheaded Lee Rigby.

 

[Nick]

Nick mate, what's been in the news to say it is? When you've got HM Inspector of Prisons (a branch of the Government, not a lefty think-tank!), saying this...

"The year 2017–18 was a dramatic period in which HM Inspectorate of Prisons documented some of the most disturbing prison conditions we have ever seen – conditions which have no place in an advanced nation in the 21st century."

Then you know that being inside isn't an easy option. The report is here.

How bad are the conditions compared to years of plastic surgery, a lifetime of disfigurement and excruciating pain for a child?

Pretty sure they can go 2 up in a cell only designed for 1 person, wait a few hours to be booked in or miss out on their exercise / association for a day.

How hard do you think Tommy Robinson is having it inside?

 

[duffer]

Yep, I watched the documentary about the Birmingham Prison. It's the guards who are more at risk than the prisoners.

How well do you think points 1,2 and 3 work? Bearing in mind how rife drug use, mobile phones and everything else is in Prison?

How do you rehabilitate somebody who could throw acid at a child?

I don't think ALL criminals should be locked up anyway, it's pointless for so many of them and just adds to overcrowding.

The guards don't generally commit suicide, Nick, understandably they just leave. It's typically the weaker, bullied prisoners that kill themselves.

So what do you think happens when people like us outside are so quick to encourage rape and violence inside jails? Who draws the line at what's acceptable depending on the type of crime? You, me, a fat bloke down the pub, the biggest con in the prison yard? Where's the respect for the law here?

Some people are beyond rehabilitation, undoubtedly. But not everyone, so do we just give up and make prison so unbearable that we think it'll put people off offending? If so all of the evidence suggests that it doesn't work. There's a really good article on this here.

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Sorry but what kind of adult would need to be educated that it’s not acceptable to throw acid over a toddler?
Why should society keep these vile creatures?

 

[Nick]

The guards don't generally commit suicide, Nick, understandably they just leave. It's typically the weaker, bullied prisoners that kill themselves.

So what do you think happens when people like us outside are so quick to encourage rape and violence inside jails? Who draws the line at what's acceptable depending on the type of crime? You, me, a fat bloke down the pub, the biggest con in the prison yard? Where's the respect for the law here?

Some people are beyond rehabilitation, undoubtedly. But not everyone, so do we just give up and make prison so unbearable that we think it'll put people off offending? If so all of the evidence suggests that it doesn't work. There's a really good article on this here.

I encouraged it against somebody who would walk up to a child in a pushchair and squirt acid in it's face knowing full well what will happen. Not every single person who gets sent down.

I wouldn't encourage it against somebody who's been out doing petty crime (although they still do need to be put off going back to prison).

I agree with the link to the Prisons in Scandinavia, it would probably help a fair chunk of the criminals and help them reform by giving them a few life skills, independence, get them off drugs. That would be perfect for people who maybe shouldn't be in prison but should definitely be punished (maybe mostly non violent type crimes).

Obviously people will disagree with me categorising criminals but there's a massive difference between convicted criminals who have maybe made mistakes or wrong choices and then crimes like this example knowing full well the outcome.