The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (161 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

How about blame the EU for being shit, just for once?

They caused this.

LOL.

 

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[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

How did you measure that? Is leaving the only remedy? My opinion is that immigration is the main reason and 45% of leave fb adverts were targeted at people who may have been anti immigrant. Misinformation spreads over social media.

So the EU is not one of the major reasons people voted to leave it? Incredible.

I'm pretty critical of migration, but I had no such adverts, I'm also in that age range they supposedly targeted - the same age range that voted largely to remain!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

LOL.

You've completely lost it.

 

[martcov]

So the EU is not one of the major reasons people voted to leave it? Incredible.

I'm pretty critical of migration, but I had no such adverts, I'm also in that age range they supposedly targeted - the same age range that voted largely to remain!

The EU is not the reason to be in or out of the EU. What are the benefits of leaving? Those would be reasons for leaving the EU.

 

[martcov]

And why is the EU against us leaving?

There wouldn't be any chaos if they all sat around a table and acted like adults. There wouldn't be any chaos if they wanted what was best for all. But they want to keep us in. They are trying to force us into a corner. They want to cherry pick. But they turn the tables and say it is us.

We asked for our cake and eat it. That was what BOJO actually said we wanted and our attitude up until now has been to get benefits without paying in or accepting responsibilities. They are looking after the interests of their members. That is their job. The UK has to offer something that is workable and in the interest of the 27. Get on with it.... or it's no deal. Simple really. Where are the leavers when you need them? They should be in charge. They sold Brexit, but have run away and left May with the insoluble problem. Tossers.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The EU is not the reason to be in or out of the EU. What are the benefits of leaving? Those would be reasons for leaving the EU.

The main benefit of voting to leave the EU would be to leave the EU...

To be at the stage two years later where you cannot acknowledge anything is wrong with them, or that people actually voted to leave them is bordering on mental illness to be honest.

 

[Astute]

How did you measure that? Is leaving the only remedy? My opinion is that immigration is the main reason and 45% of leave fb adverts were targeted at people who may have been anti immigrant. Misinformation spreads over social media.

If someone was anti immigration a Farcebook advert wouldn't have made them vote leave.

I don't have a clue as I don't do Farcebook but was there any anti Brexit or pro EU propaganda on it?

 

[torchomatic]

You've completely lost it.

To be honest i would have thought those who voted to make us poorer had "lost it".

Latest: Kent will become the biggest car park in the world. Another Brexit triumph that was never mentioned. Funny that.

 

[Astute]

The EU is not the reason to be in or out of the EU. What are the benefits of leaving? Those would be reasons for leaving the EU.

Not exactly right is it.

What are the benefits of being in or out of the EU?

What are the drawbacks of being in or out of the EU?

You only concentrate on the benefits of being in and the drawbacks of leaving. So of course you will only come to one conclusion.

 

[Astute]

To be honest i would have thought those who voted to make us poorer had "lost it".

Latest: Kent will become the biggest car park in the world. Another Brexit triumph that was never mentioned. Funny that.

So you know there won't be a trade deal?

If you don't then you are adding to the latest scare tactic.

 

[Astute]

We asked for our cake and eat it. That was what BOJO actually said we wanted and our attitude up until now has been to get benefits without paying in or accepting responsibilities. They are looking after the interests of their members. That is their job. The UK has to offer something that is workable and in the interest of the 27. Get on with it.... or it's no deal. Simple really. Where are the leavers when you need them? They should be in charge. They sold Brexit, but have run away and left May with the insoluble problem. Tossers.

Have our cake and eat it?

As in keep the fisheries in UK waters as they are for the benefit of the EU?

 

[Astute]

The main benefit of voting to leave the EU would be to leave the EU...

To be at the stage two years later where you cannot acknowledge anything is wrong with them, or that people actually voted to leave them is bordering on mental illness to be honest.

He came close. He said it is annoying that they break their own rules that made the vast majority in the EU very unhappy.

Would it only be annoying if the UK ever did the same?

 

[CCFCSteve]

We asked for our cake and eat it. That was what BOJO actually said we wanted and our attitude up until now has been to get benefits without paying in or accepting responsibilities. They are looking after the interests of their members. That is their job. The UK has to offer something that is workable and in the interest of the 27. Get on with it.... or it's no deal. Simple really. Where are the leavers when you need them? They should be in charge. They sold Brexit, but have run away and left May with the insoluble problem. Tossers.

Mart, you've got to admit that there are things that aren't right with the EU. As a nation we are pretty tolerant bunch and yet over 17 million voted out. There are also high percentages of public opinion in various EU countries that feel the same, especially I'd imagine amongst the vast numbers of youth unemployed in southern Europe. The arrogance of the political elite and the EU caused this by ignoring peoples genuine concerns (and other concerns that were played upon by Brexiteers). As Ive said numerous times previously, if there had been a handful of minor concessions to Cameron on his embarrassing tour around Europe pre referendum, Remain would've won easily. Lets be honest we can barely control our borders anyway, so even if some concession around numbers had been made (even if it was re-enforcing rules that were already in place and/or wouldn't have changed anything) it might have been enough to defeat arguments on immigration. Instead the project fear, "back of the queue" "suck it up" arguments came out (and continue) and unfortunately, whilst we are a tolerant country, this has led to a major backlash.

The public were treated with contempt and gave their answer (rightly or wrongly).

ps To be fair it was Cameron (remainer) who ran away

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I'm only repeating what you lot have said about Brexit.

Sweeping generalisation. I personally, think it I think most of 'us lot' have merely painted possible scenario's as a positive rather than entirely negative ones that your lot desire/promote/propogate

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[SkyblueBazza]

Because I'm not selfish and genuinely believe that the current situation is going to lead to long-term damage to the country

Then why argue with others who think it will lead to prosperity if we get it right? You seem to be selfishly pusuing your vision as correct & theirs wrong...but none of us know

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[SkyblueBazza]

What is the difference between being on stand by and the „ normal „ status?

Mart...it matters not does it? The PM's spokesman has said there is no provision. You might be quite surprised by what scenarios provisions are in places for & what we have people on stand-by for in reality.

And don't be lazy.. if you are unclear on what it means - look it up

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[martcov]

Mart...it matters not does it? The PM's spokesman has said there is no provision. You might be quite surprised by what scenarios provisions are in places for & what we have people on stand-by for in reality.

And don't be lazy.. if you are unclear on what it means - look it up

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I was wondering why you wanted the army on permanent stand by. That’s all.

 

[martcov]

Mart, you've got to admit that there are things that aren't right with the EU. As a nation we are pretty tolerant bunch and yet over 17 million voted out. There are also high percentages of public opinion in various EU countries that feel the same, especially I'd imagine amongst the vast numbers of youth unemployed in southern Europe. The arrogance of the political elite and the EU caused this by ignoring peoples genuine concerns (and other concerns that were played upon by Brexiteers). As Ive said numerous times previously, if there had been a handful of minor concessions to Cameron on his embarrassing tour around Europe pre referendum, Remain would've won easily. Lets be honest we can barely control our borders anyway, so even if some concession around numbers had been made (even if it was re-enforcing rules that were already in place and/or wouldn't have changed anything) it might have been enough to defeat arguments on immigration. Instead the project fear, "back of the queue" "suck it up" arguments came out (and continue) and unfortunately, whilst we are a tolerant country, this has led to a major backlash.

The public were treated with contempt and gave their answer (rightly or wrongly).

ps To be fair it was Cameron (remainer) who ran away

He ran away to allow the people who wanted leave to see it through. Where are they? Why couldn’t Davis come up with a workable proposal?

 

[martcov]

Not exactly right is it.

What are the benefits of being in or out of the EU?

What are the drawbacks of being in or out of the EU?

You only concentrate on the benefits of being in and the drawbacks of leaving. So of course you will only come to one conclusion.

My conclusion is that if you vote to leave you should at least be able to list the benefits so far achieved, and those that are in process of being achieved. And have a workable proposal to end the political negotiations in order that we can progress with the trade negotiations.

Not asking a lot really.

Remaining would have been a damn sight easier.

 

[martcov]

He came close. He said it is annoying that they break their own rules that made the vast majority in the EU very unhappy.

Would it only be annoying if the UK ever did the same?

The spirit of the law, not the law. Which was annoying, but not illegal.

 

[martcov]

Have our cake and eat it?

As in keep the fisheries in UK waters as they are for the benefit of the EU?

The EU fish market is beneficial to the UK. That is a trade off as opposed to having your cake and eating it.

 

[martcov]

If someone was anti immigration a Farcebook advert wouldn't have made them vote leave.

I don't have a clue as I don't do Farcebook but was there any anti Brexit or pro EU propaganda on it?

The point being that the leave campaign researched what drove people‘s emotions and the fact that they paid for 45% of their ads to be targeted using migration as a button pusher shows how important immigration was in the debate.

 

[martcov]

The main benefit of voting to leave the EU would be to leave the EU...

To be at the stage two years later where you cannot acknowledge anything is wrong with them, or that people actually voted to leave them is bordering on mental illness to be honest.

Mental illness is voting for something you cannot define and for which you cannot list any benefits apart from that you voted for it.

 

[Grendel]

Mental illness is voting for something you cannot define and for which you cannot list any benefits apart from that you voted for it.

Like all those bright young things who voted remain and at the same time put Jeremy in the labour hot seat you mean?

 

[Astute]

He ran away to allow the people who wanted leave to see it through. Where are they? Why couldn’t Davis come up with a workable proposal?

You know the rules off by heart on what the EU says is allowable.

So come out with what is allowable that also means leaving.

 

[Astute]

My conclusion is that if you vote to leave you should at least be able to list the benefits so far achieved, and those that are in process of being achieved. And have a workable proposal to end the political negotiations in order that we can progress with the trade negotiations.

Not asking a lot really.

Remaining would have been a damn sight easier.

Finding that the EU is more bent than I could have ever dreamed of.

 

[Astute]

The spirit of the law, not the law. Which was annoying, but not illegal.

Annoying but allowable?

Annoying is a massive understatement. They totally bent the rules that they are supposed to govern by. All trust is lost. What else have they done that we haven't found out yet?

 

[Grendel]

There are various calculations. The last I saw was 39 bn. But some things are liabilities on guarantees on loans which may be called on in future years. We pay our contribution to the EU budget until the end of the 7 year period in 2020. 39bn is a net payment assuming we get so much back for our share of EU property. Some say we will paying something for 50 years. But, I doubt that as there will be some final deal at the end of current negotiations, but, I only know as much as anyone else.

What we have agreed to actually commit to is a £16b payment during the transition which we’d be liable to anyway and a balance that’s going to be paid to 2064.

So the burden to the taxpayer on an annual basis is less even at the higher end of payments and eventually scales down to £500 million a year.

 

[martcov]

What we have agreed to actually commit to is a £16b payment during the transition which we’d be liable to anyway and a balance that’s going to be paid to 2064.

So the burden to the taxpayer on an annual basis is less even at the higher end of payments and eventually scales down to £500 million a year.

Not during the current budget.

 

[Astute]

The EU fish market is beneficial to the UK. That is a trade off as opposed to having your cake and eating it.

Is it bollocks.

Most of the fish sold in the EU is from UK water. Most of the fish caught in UK water isn't caught by UK fishermen.

So the EU has said that nothing should change.

A trade off on what? They are still refusing to talk about a trade deal. But they are OK to tell us that we won't get the rights to our own fishing waters back.

Certainly looks like cherry picking to all those without a massive bias to the EU.

 

[martcov]

Annoying but allowable?

Annoying is a massive understatement. They totally bent the rules that they are supposed to govern by. All trust is lost. What else have they done that we haven't found out yet?

Because of one legal, but dodgy appointment? The whole EU will break up with massive negative consequences? Talk about getting your knickers in a twist.

 

[martcov]

Is it bollocks.

Most of the fish sold in the EU is from UK water. Most of the fish caught in UK water isn't caught by UK fishermen.

So the EU has said that nothing should change.

A trade off on what? They are still refusing to talk about a trade deal. But they are OK to tell us that we won't get the rights to our own fishing waters back.

Certainly looks like cherry picking to all those without a massive bias to the EU.

Have they signed anything to that effect? No. As there will be a trade off.

 

[Grendel]

Not during the current budget.

What do you mean not during the current budget? That’s a breakdown of the £39b payments.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Mental illness is voting for something you cannot define and for which you cannot list any benefits apart from that you voted for it.

I just listed the main one:

Leaving the EU.

Being unable to accept, acknowledge, or even remotely understand the vote two years later is the behaviour of someone who's brain doesn't work properly.

 

[martcov]

Finding that the EU is more bent than I could have ever dreamed of.

You are a remainer and voted remain don’t forget.