The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (80 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

I’ve already told you the domestic policies. Try reading what I’ve already posted. There isn’t an open border between Turkey and Greece or Libya and Italy so yes they would have ended up in EU countries regardless of the open borders given that they entered the EU through closed borders. Am I really having to explain this to you?

You’re making out that I’m making out that the U.K. hasn’t taken any of them. I actually think David Cameron had it right in that he wanted to go to the camps to take the most needy and vulnerable. As I’ve already said, if you wanted to talk truth you could blame Merkel for the refugee crisis given her very public invitation for them to come to Germany. Germany’s unemployment rate is actually very similar to ours ( captain confirmed this morning with his link) 3.8% compared to Germany’s 3.5%. Swedens unemployment rate is almost 6% so not sure your argument stands up based on the facts (I know you like facts). Germany benefits from the Euro? Sounds like you’re advocating remaining and joining the Euro to boot.

Even the UK has no real open border. All ypu need is a worthy vessel to float across the channel from 1 pretty obscure point to another. It isn't difficult to walk through from one country to another via fields/forests is it?

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[martcov]

In fairness...they sort of invited them by saying they would be welcome.

Even the AFD are only saying words to the effect that now Germany has accepted them...the rest of the EU has to take a share of them. Given the lax enforcement of secondary movement - I don't know why they feel the need to bother though tbh

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There has to be sharing of the burden. They were allowed in because of the Geneva convention. The European ruling on that was the Dublin arrangement which obviously never envisaged what happened in 2015. we need a European Solution to master the problem and future migration from Africa to the Mediterranean countries. We don’t have one which is a major problem.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Ah ok, I understand now. There are no open borders, you can’t just walk in.

Unless that is, some mad woman invites a million into Germany, in which case Stavros at the border gate in Kos does a runner when he sees thousands of Syrians, Pakistanis, Afghans and Iraqis pouring off the ferry.

Only when that happens are the borders open and you can walk in.

No...I have to disagree. If you are sufficiently motivated you can walk anywhere virtually undetected

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[martcov]

And Germany guides & influences the EU in line with it's own domestic policies. Keep feeding the 'Fatherland'???

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Germany wants a unified EU policy. It’s not fair that the Mediterranean countries are left with the problem of refugees. Germany is working with others on that including France and Italy.

 

[martcov]

No...I have to disagree. If you are sufficiently motivated you can walk anywhere virtually undetected

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Try walking to the UK.

 

[Astute]

Because they’ve applied. Tends to be how these things work.

Ah. So Merkel got involved with the name change for Macedonia because they won't be able to join the EU?

Albania are changing their laws as they won't be able to join the EU?

Yeah OK. There was me thinking that it was going to make the EU bigger and devalue the Euro more for Germany

 

[martcov]

Ah. So Merkel got involved with the name change for Macedonia because they won't be able to join the EU?

Albania are changing their laws as they won't be able to join the EU?

Yeah OK. There was me thinking that it was going to make the EU bigger and devalue the Euro more for Germany

The name problem was agreed on a while ago as far as I remember.

Do you seriously think that the only reason the EU will accept Macedonia is to devalue the Euro for Germany? Why haven’t they accepted Romania to the Euro then?

 

[skybluetony176]

Ah. So Merkel got involved with the name change for Macedonia because they won't be able to join the EU?

Albania are changing their laws as they won't be able to join the EU?

Yeah OK. There was me thinking that it was going to make the EU bigger and devalue the Euro more for Germany

You don’t half waffle some shit.

 

[Astute]

The EU has nothing to with the atrocities committed by ISIS. Germany doesn’t have more terrorism than the UK or France. Despite over a million refugees. Why do you think that is?

If they think they will get to stay they keep to the law to not get kicked out. But otherwise they do not.

Violent crime rises in Germany and is attributed to refugees

 

[Astute]

There has to be sharing of the burden. They were allowed in because of the Geneva convention. The European ruling on that was the Dublin arrangement which obviously never envisaged what happened in 2015. we need a European Solution to master the problem and future migration from Africa to the Mediterranean countries. We don’t have one which is a major problem.

So why is Germany bringing in holding areas with the EU to keep Merkel in as running the country?

 

[Astute]

You don’t half waffle some shit.

You don't half dodge questions and then make out that you have answered them.

 

[Astute]

The name problem was agreed on a while ago as far as I remember.

Do you seriously think that the only reason the EU will accept Macedonia is to devalue the Euro for Germany? Why haven’t they accepted Romania to the Euro then?

Romania's ruling party congress votes to join euro in 2024

 

[skybluetony176]

You don't half dodge questions and then make out that you have answered them.

Whatever. You’re still waffling a load of shit.

 

[Sick Boy]

You don't half dodge questions and then make out that you have answered them.

Most people on this thread have probably done it multiple times.

 

[Astute]

Most people on this thread have probably done it multiple times.

And calling others for coming out with shit to try and cover for what they have said?

 

[Sick Boy]

And calling others for coming out with shit to try and cover for what they have said?

You've done it yourself, so no need to get all high and mighty about it.

 

[martcov]

Romania's ruling party congress votes to join euro in 2024

In 2024. that is from when they joined. It took years to get them to that point. If your theory were correct that they didn’t care and just want weaker currencies, they would have joined years ago. You proved my points.

 

[martcov]

So why is Germany bringing in holding areas with the EU to keep Merkel in as running the country?

Germany has watered the proposal to virtually nothing. Very few cases and no new buildings. Because of the rules of the Geneva convention.

 

[martcov]

If they think they will get to stay they keep to the law to not get kicked out. But otherwise they do not.

Violent crime rises in Germany and is attributed to refugees

If you bothered to read the report, it said that it is not Syrians fleeing a war that are the problem, but the Nafris ( mainly Maroccans and Tunisians ) who won’t get asylum granted. I have constantly said that the Nafris are a problem. They came without papers and their home countries are not cooperative about issuing new documents, or it is hard to establish their true identities. They are not fleeing a war, but are chancers.

 

[skybluetony176]

And calling others for coming out with shit to try and cover for what they have said?

You spent most of yesterday either telling me I’d said something I hadn’t, telling me I hadn’t said something I had and then returning to type of replying what about Junker and his irrelevant croanie who’s name I can’t even remember. You keep saying that Macedonia is next without any context to what that means when in fact next won’t happen until 2025 at the earliest so has no bearing on our future whatsoever so is just more irrelevant waffle, you then start going on about Albania who are even less likely to be next and even more irrelevant. Just all irrelevant shit and you’re waffling while doing it bouncing around like an out of control pinball

 

[martcov]

So why is Germany bringing in holding areas with the EU to keep Merkel in as running the country?

Seehofer was the one pushing for holding areas. He is CSU and a twat.

 

[martcov]

You spent most of yesterday either telling me I’d said something I hadn’t, telling me I hadn’t said something I had and then returning to type of replying what about Junker and his irrelevant croanie who’s name I can’t even remember. You keep saying that Macedonia is next without any context to what that means when in fact next won’t happen until 2025 at the earliest so has no bearing on our future whatsoever so is just more irrelevant waffle, you then start going on about Albania who are even less likely to be next and even more irrelevant. Just all irrelevant shit and you’re waffling while doing it bouncing around like an out of control pinball

Basically Brexit is dead. Leaving the EU would be a disaster. The leavers have blown it. Rees Mogg is now in fantasy land and the whole leave group is reduced to rowing in circles without a rudder. Expect more about EU internal scandals, German immigration policies and crimes committed by coloured people. Mogg is now adding project hope to project faith started by BoJo. Next is project charity for all the people losing out by the uncertainty caused by this unthoughtout idea of trying to be an important world power again telling other countries what to do if they want to trade with us. We are becoming laughing stock as virtually every day a new problem comes to light.

People on here rejoicing when Neonazis have some success, hoping to fxxk that somehow the EU will collapse and they will by proved to have been right to vote leave. They would take the collapse of Europe and a follow up of National Socialism into account... just for the pleasure of saying I told you so.

 

[Astute]

You've done it yourself, so no need to get all high and mighty about it.

I give a reason for each statement that I make. I then have you, Tony and Mart trying to make out that it isn't true. Then when it can't be defended you all go quiet for a couple of days and then come back with the same old crap.

Read back. You will see it is true.

 

[Astute]

In 2024. that is from when they joined. It took years to get them to that point. If your theory were correct that they didn’t care and just want weaker currencies, they would have joined years ago. You proved my points.

Proved what points?

They have 7 targets to reach. None of them are to do with how weak their own currency or economy is doing.

When they join the Euro how many economies will be weaker?

 

[Astute]

Germany has watered the proposal to virtually nothing. Very few cases and no new buildings. Because of the rules of the Geneva convention.

It was pointed out to them that it would be a breach of human rights if they did what they wanted. I remember pointing it out to you. So they didn't do it through choice. But there still isn't a plan B. So it is still all that is on the table. So nothing has changed.

 

[Astute]

If you bothered to read the report, it said that it is not Syrians fleeing a war that are the problem, but the Nafris ( mainly Maroccans and Tunisians ) who won’t get asylum granted. I have constantly said that the Nafris are a problem. They came without papers and their home countries are not cooperative about issuing new documents, or it is hard to establish their true identities. They are not fleeing a war, but are chancers.

So you ignored what I said as usual. Those with the chance to stay keep their noses clean. Those without much of a chance cause chaos. And they commit the atrocities that you say doesn't happen. Then you compare Germany to the UK.

 

[Astute]

Seehofer was the one pushing for holding areas. He is CSU and a twat.

Merkel not involved?

Terms of Service Violation

 

[Astute]

Basically Brexit is dead. Leaving the EU would be a disaster. The leavers have blown it. Rees Mogg is now in fantasy land and the whole leave group is reduced to rowing in circles without a rudder. Expect more about EU internal scandals, German immigration policies and crimes committed by coloured people. Mogg is now adding project hope to project faith started by BoJo. Next is project charity for all the people losing out by the uncertainty caused by this unthoughtout idea of trying to be an important world power again telling other countries what to do if they want to trade with us. We are becoming laughing stock as virtually every day a new problem comes to light.

People on here rejoicing when Neonazis have some success, hoping to fxxk that somehow the EU will collapse and they will by proved to have been right to vote leave. They would take the collapse of Europe and a follow up of National Socialism into account... just for the pleasure of saying I told you so.

So you say.

But you would do.

 

[Sick Boy]

I give a reason for each statement that I make. I then have you, Tony and Mart trying to make out that it isn't true. Then when it can't be defended you all go quiet for a couple of days and then come back with the same old crap.

Read back. You will see it is true.

A bit like when you blamed the EU for Italy's issues with money lost through organised crime? Yeah right.

 

[martcov]

Proved what points?

They have 7 targets to reach. None of them are to do with how weak their own currency or economy is doing.

When they join the Euro how many economies will be weaker?

They have to meet criteria.

When they have met them they can join. They were supposed to join in 2015, but didn’t meet the criteria.

Why should economies automatically become weaker? Romania is not exactly a major player. When people do deals in Romania they often talk in Euros. That was so in 2010, last time I was there, when my mate was extending his hotel. His costs were in Euros as the materials, such as shower units, were imported. The prostitutes were talking euros long before any official policy. I don’t think there will be any major changes. It will save costs for business though as exchange rates and forward buying and selling to cover import and export trades will fall away.

I don’t see why the current economy should be a criterium as it will probably be different in 2024.

More anti EU waffle. Now, back to the UK.... how’s Brexit playing out? And what known benefits can we look forward to?

 

[martcov]

It was pointed out to them that it would be a breach of human rights if they did what they wanted. I remember pointing it out to you. So they didn't do it through choice. But there still isn't a plan B. So it is still all that is on the table. So nothing has changed.

It was Seehofer‘s idea. Merkel was against and so was the SPD. It got watered down as I said.

 

[martcov]

Merkel not involved?

Terms of Service Violation

Merkel wanted to send them back to where they first registered, if they were already registered. That is only a small percentage of migrants. She has signed several countries up to that. Seehofer wanted the holding camps. The SPD put paid to that. No new buildings were built and the time of holding people before sending them back was reduced to a few days.

 

[martcov]

So you ignored what I said as usual. Those with the chance to stay keep their noses clean. Those without much of a chance cause chaos. And they commit the atrocities that you say doesn't happen. Then you compare Germany to the UK.

What atrocities? Violent crimes, yes, but atrocities no. And not that many violent crimes. A 10% increase in total. Not necessarily just migrants.

The latest crime in the headlines will probably be manslaughter because the guy died of a heart attack caused by having a heart disease ( and the stress of the fight ). Hardly premeditated murder or an atrocity.

The last atrocity was December 2016y

 

[martcov]

So you say.

But you would do.

Still waiting for tangible benefits. We are now being told not to be too optimistic by Liam Fox. I thought it was all going to be easy peasy according to Fox. Apparently not.

 

[martcov]

So you ignored what I said as usual. Those with the chance to stay keep their noses clean. Those without much of a chance cause chaos. And they commit the atrocities that you say doesn't happen. Then you compare Germany to the UK.

If I wanted to compare Germany to the UK, I would simply take knife crime and murder rate in London and compare it with Berlin. Game over. But what has that got to do with leaving the EU? Do you expect terror atrocities in the UK to stop, or knife crime, acid sttacks and Moped robbery in London to drop as a benefit of Brexit? I don’t get your logic. I think you have poor arguments and so just attack Juncker, Selmayr and Germany in general instead of putting forward coherent arguments for leaving the EU and telling us what benefits we can expect in Brexit Britain.