The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (115 Viewers)

[Astute]

? You mean for EU citizens, with passports, who came as tourists or looking for work, but became a cost to the state, as opposed to refugees from non EU countries and without papers? Two totally different categories. Where did I stand up for the UK taking rights off EU people after Brexit? The whole point of EU rights is that they cannot be taken from you. I think you are confusing something.. again. It is one more reason for opposing Brexit.

About 100 pages or more ago. And you said it several times. You said the ones that shouldn't be here are easy to remove.

 

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[Astute]

What?!!! I said the opposite about Ford. The Transit project was loaned 80 million in 2012. the money will be paid back in 2022. Nothing to do with stealing jobs and nothing to do with Brexit. Just a Faragism thrown in to wind people up.

Winding people up is what you mainly do.

 

[Astute]

Italy is screwed. Was screwed. Will continue to be screwed as long as a populist government doesn’t actually attend parliament and prefers to keep attacking migrants and others instead of seriously getting down to business.

So it was all caused by a populist government?

 

[martcov]

About 100 pages or more ago. And you said it several times. You said the ones that shouldn't be here are easy to remove.

EU citizens with id are not unidentifiable refugees from a war zone or North Africa. You have resulted to making things up with me the same as with Tony. Stick to the truth please.

 

[martcov]

So it was all caused by a populist government?

No problems will be solved by a populist government. The same in the USA. Trump‘s tax reforms have benefited the rich. His deregulation has benefited his mates. His immigration policy has only caused more trouble. More people are dying from mass shootings than ever before. Future generations will pay for the populist mess. Expect similar everywhere populists get to power. Italy is already looking bad. The cabinet members don’t attend parliament, nobody is getting to grips with problems, but they are being seen to send small quantities of migrants away or blaming motorway companies for a disaster without having had an enquiry. Brexit is the same. Populists exposed, backpedaling or resigning. Future generations to pay for the mess.

 

[martcov]

Winding people up is what you mainly do.

I spend all day correcting you or arguing against people who prefer National Socialism to a benign EU.

 

[Grendel]

Then what are JLR gaining through Brexit?

Well if as you say the pound will collapse it will be an enormous benefit as it was in the announcement period which contributed to record profits.

All car manufacturers will look to reduce material and overhead costs to maximise profitability

 

[skybluetony176]

Reality Check: The case for a 'clean-break' Brexit

Looks like Boris’, Rees Mogg and buddies plans for brexit aren’t standing up to scrutiny already. No surprise.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well if as you say the pound will collapse it will be an enormous benefit as it was in the announcement period which contributed to record profits.

All car manufacturers will look to reduce material and overhead costs to maximise profitability

So the components that JLR bring in to the U.K. what’s going to happen to the price of them? That’s before you even factor in import duty. What about raw materials such as steel, aluminium, copper and precious metals? They’re all traded in dollars. How is the pound crashing going to effect the cost of those to the benefit of JLR plants in the U.K.?

Funny that the only benefit that you can come up with is something that you dismiss as part of project fear and then when you look at it in the smallest of details it doesn’t look like stacking up.

 

[Grendel]

So the components that JLR bring in to the U.K. what’s going to happen to the price of them? That’s before you even factor in import duty. What about raw materials such as steel, aluminium, copper and precious metals? They’re all traded in dollars. How is the pound crashing going to effect the cost of those to the benefit of JLR plants in the U.K.?

Funny that the only benefit that you can come up with is something that you dismiss as part of project fear and then when you look at it in the smallest of details it doesn’t look like stacking up.

Tony - did JLR record record profits in the year the pound crashed - yes or no? Also what is the FX impact you describe of material imports versus vehicle exports to Overseas markets?

 

[martcov]

Well if as you say the pound will collapse it will be an enormous benefit as it was in the announcement period which contributed to record profits.

All car manufacturers will look to reduce material and overhead costs to maximise profitability

If the pound collapses, how will that effect imported parts? Will they revert to only buying British? How will the reduction of parts made in the EU affect selling to regions which have an EU trade agreement requiring a percentage of EU components?

 

[skybluetony176]

Tony - did JLR record record profits in the year the pound crashed - yes or no? Also what is the FX impact you describe of material imports versus vehicle exports to Overseas markets?

I note that you didn’t answer the questions.

 

[martcov]

Tony - did JLR record record profits in the year the pound crashed - yes or no? Also what is the FX impact you describe of material imports versus vehicle exports to Overseas markets?

Which overseas markets? Trump‘s USA which he is protecting? China who have just told us not to sail in what they call their waters or else we won’t get a trade deal? Or maybe Australia who have said wait until we have signed with the EU? Nigeria? Lesotho?

 

[skybluetony176]

If the pound collapses, how will that effect imported parts? Will they revert to only buying British? How will the reduction of parts made in the EU affect selling to regions which have an EU trade agreement requiring a percentage of EU components?

Supply chain partners | Jaguar Land Rover Careers – Excellence In Motion
“54% OF THE COMPONENTS AT JAGUAR LAND ROVER VEHICLE ASSEMBLY PLANTS ARE SOURCED FROM UK SUPPLIERS.”

 

[Astute]

EU citizens with id are not unidentifiable refugees from a war zone or North Africa. You have resulted to making things up with me the same as with Tony. Stick to the truth please.

Bollocks.

I constantly show you to be coming out with false information. The same with Tony. Just like with the money from the EU for the plant in Turkey. One of you admitted that it came from the EU. But the one that admitted the truth never said a word to the one denying it 100%.

And strangely enough nothing was said to the one who was wrong. And let him carry on with his false information.

Yet I am supposed to be the one who is wrong.

 

[Astute]

Supply chain partners | Jaguar Land Rover Careers – Excellence In Motion
“54% OF THE COMPONENTS AT JAGUAR LAND ROVER VEHICLE ASSEMBLY PLANTS ARE SOURCED FROM UK SUPPLIERS.”

And your point is?

 

[Grendel]

If the pound collapses, how will that effect imported parts? Will they revert to only buying British? How will the reduction of parts made in the EU affect selling to regions which have an EU trade agreement requiring a percentage of EU components?

Good god

 

[Grendel]

Which overseas markets? Trump‘s USA which he is protecting? China who have just told us not to sail in what they call their waters or else we won’t get a trade deal? Or maybe Australia who have said wait until we have signed with the EU? Nigeria? Lesotho?

China? Christ JLR build there you dumbo

 

[Grendel]

I note that you didn’t answer the questions.

The answer is you are wrong Tony

 

[skybluetony176]

The answer is you are wrong Tony

I asked a question (which you didn’t answer), I didn’t make a statement. There is no scenario in that situation where I can be wrong. Given I didn’t make a statement. I guess you can’t answer the question. Clearly too technical for you and beyond your pay grade.

 

[skybluetony176]

And your point is?

Not surprised that you don’t get the point. Probably best you keep out of this one.

 

[martcov]

China? Christ JLR build there you dumbo

Nigeria? Sorry if I got that one wrong :-(

 

[martcov]

Bollocks.

I constantly show you to be coming out with false information. The same with Tony. Just like with the money from the EU for the plant in Turkey. One of you admitted that it came from the EU. But the one that admitted the truth never said a word to the one denying it 100%.

And strangely enough nothing was said to the one who was wrong. And let him carry on with his false information.

Yet I am supposed to be the one who is wrong.

It can from the EIB. Which is a bank. It belongs to the EU. But it is a bank. Like SISU owns CCFC but is not CCFC. I thought that was explained to you.

 

[Grendel]

I asked a question (which you didn’t answer), I didn’t make a statement. There is no scenario in that situation where I can be wrong. Given I didn’t make a statement. I guess you can’t answer the question. Clearly too technical for you and beyond your pay grade.

Jesus. You’ve made an assumption Tony that’s laughable. You are for a start assuming material cost of imports will automatically be impacted if currency negates. You are also Tony assuming the impact (which won’t exist) exceeds currency benefits from selling vehicles elsewhere at inflated prices due to currency benefits.

You asked a question that’s impossible to answer as it’s preface is wrong - like asking what type of cheese is the moon made of. It’s wrong.

 

[Grendel]

Funny, Grendel says it is all Brexit bluster. An IT consultant who is advising JLR and Aldi UK ( both are dependent on just in time supply flows ) told me only on Friday that JLR are worried about Brexit disrupting supply chains and that they would be screwed. Basically what Speth is saying. According to Grendel JLR is more than just supply chains. So, obviously you and Grendel are right, and Speth and the consultants are wrong. Now... back to the benefits we can expect from Brexit.. what are they?

What’s funny is you slag people off for wanting far right groups to rise to being down the Eu but would toss yourself off for days on end of Brexit resulted in the collapse of major uk industries

Whose worse?

 

[martcov]

What’s funny is you slag people off for wanting far right groups to rise to being down the Eu but would toss yourself off for days on end of Brexit resulted in the collapse of major uk industries

Whose worse?

No. I wouldn't. I hope that either, we don't leave, but if we do leave, that we do it sensibly and not just for the sake of carrying it through to spite critics. Either way I am against the rise of the far right. Your question cannot be answered as what you dscribed is not the case. Just accept that far right populism tends to end in tears.

 

[Grendel]

No. I wouldn't. I hope that either, we don't leave, but if we do leave, that we do it sensibly and not just for the sake of carrying it through to spite critics. Either way I am against the rise of the far right. Your question cannot be answered as what you dscribed is not the case. Just accept that far right populism tends to end in tears.

Would you want Brexit to be a success if it’s ultimate consequence was they other countries also left and the whole project collapsed?

 

[skybluetony176]

Jesus. You’ve made an assumption Tony that’s laughable. You are for a start assuming material cost of imports will automatically be impacted if currency negates. You are also Tony assuming the impact (which won’t exist) exceeds currency benefits from selling vehicles elsewhere at inflated prices due to currency benefits.

You asked a question that’s impossible to answer as it’s preface is wrong - like asking what type of cheese is the moon made of. It’s wrong.

I haven’t made an assumption I’ve made an observation. Metals like most commodities are traded in $USD. The LME (London Metal Exchange) is the world center for trading metals, you go on their website and see what currency they trade in. I’ll give you a clue, it isn’t £GBP. At some point in the process of ingots being smelted, rolled or cast up to final assembly if you’re product is heavily reliant on that product a conversion from $USD to £GBP has to take place. If that conversion is unfavourable to the pound the cost of your raw material/components goes up which has an effect on your production costs.

You see I don’t believe that you’re not clever enough to know that which is why you’re trying to duck the question.

You start going on about profit after the pound crashed which again is irrelevant and again I think you’re clever enough to know why it’s irrelevant. Fact is the companies that buy the raw ingots for processing don’t participate in JIT ordering. They buy when the trading conditions are right and stockpile. We use steel, aluminium, copper, lead, nickel and cadmium products where I work and it was 6 months later that the effects of pound crashing were felt in our supply chain with lead and copper prices going up by around 5% and then another 2 or three times during the first five months of the following year.

You say that the pound crashing makes exports look more attractive and you’re absolutely correct on that. But there’s an irrefutable unavoidable flip side to that. Any goods not traded in £GBP becomes less attractive. There’s no getting away from that. $USD is the worlds most traded in currency in the world. Everything from metals to oil to seeds are traded in dollars. It’s a double edged sword and it swings both ways. You’re clever enough to understand that no matter how hard you try to convince us you aren’t.

I have a mate who’s a buyer for a major cable importer and the bane of his life is trying to guess what the pound will do next against the dollar because in his industry you don’t make profit selling you make it buying.

 

[Astute]

I asked a question (which you didn’t answer), I didn’t make a statement. There is no scenario in that situation where I can be wrong. Given I didn’t make a statement. I guess you can’t answer the question. Clearly too technical for you and beyond your pay grade.

So you say a lot to not say anything.

 

[Astute]

No. I wouldn't. I hope that either, we don't leave, but if we do leave, that we do it sensibly and not just for the sake of carrying it through to spite critics. Either way I am against the rise of the far right. Your question cannot be answered as what you dscribed is not the case. Just accept that far right populism tends to end in tears.

Most of what you say is either a guess or not true. Then you have the nerve to say everyone who doesn't agree with you are wrong.

 

[Grendel]

I haven’t made an assumption I’ve made an observation. Metals like most commodities are traded in $USD. The LME (London Metal Exchange) is the world center for trading metals, you go on their website and see what currency they trade in. I’ll give you a clue, it isn’t £GBP. At some point in the process of ingots being smelted, rolled or cast up to final assembly if you’re product is heavily reliant on that product a conversion from $USD to £GBP has to take place. If that conversion is unfavourable to the pound the cost of your raw material/components goes up which has an effect on your production costs.

You see I don’t believe that you’re not clever enough to know that which is why you’re trying to duck the question.

You start going on about profit after the pound crashed which again is irrelevant and again I think you’re clever enough to know why it’s irrelevant. Fact is the companies that buy the raw ingots for processing don’t participate in JIT ordering. They buy when the trading conditions are right and stockpile. We use steel, aluminium, copper, lead, nickel and cadmium products where I work and it was 6 months later that the effects of pound crashing were felt in our supply chain with lead and copper prices going up by around 5% and then another 2 or three times during the first five months of the following year.

You say that the pound crashing makes exports look more attractive and you’re absolutely correct on that. But there’s an irrefutable unavoidable flip side to that. Any goods not traded in £GBP becomes less attractive. There’s no getting away from that. $USD is the worlds most traded in currency in the world. Everything from metals to oil to seeds are traded in dollars. It’s a double edged sword and it swings both ways. You’re clever enough to understand that no matter how hard you try to convince us you aren’t.

I have a mate who’s a buyer for a major cable importer and the bane of his life is trying to guess what the pound will do next against the dollar because in his industry you don’t make profit selling you make it buying.

Tony have you ever heard of the word hedging other than in a gardening context?

 

[Astute]

I haven’t made an assumption I’ve made an observation. Metals like most commodities are traded in $USD. The LME (London Metal Exchange) is the world center for trading metals, you go on their website and see what currency they trade in. I’ll give you a clue, it isn’t £GBP. At some point in the process of ingots being smelted, rolled or cast up to final assembly if you’re product is heavily reliant on that product a conversion from $USD to £GBP has to take place. If that conversion is unfavourable to the pound the cost of your raw material/components goes up which has an effect on your production costs.

You see I don’t believe that you’re not clever enough to know that which is why you’re trying to duck the question.

You start going on about profit after the pound crashed which again is irrelevant and again I think you’re clever enough to know why it’s irrelevant. Fact is the companies that buy the raw ingots for processing don’t participate in JIT ordering. They buy when the trading conditions are right and stockpile. We use steel, aluminium, copper, lead, nickel and cadmium products where I work and it was 6 months later that the effects of pound crashing were felt in our supply chain with lead and copper prices going up by around 5% and then another 2 or three times during the first five months of the following year.

You say that the pound crashing makes exports look more attractive and you’re absolutely correct on that. But there’s an irrefutable unavoidable flip side to that. Any goods not traded in £GBP becomes less attractive. There’s no getting away from that. $USD is the worlds most traded in currency in the world. Everything from metals to oil to seeds are traded in dollars. It’s a double edged sword and it swings both ways. You’re clever enough to understand that no matter how hard you try to convince us you aren’t.

I have a mate who’s a buyer for a major cable importer and the bane of his life is trying to guess what the pound will do next against the dollar because in his industry you don’t make profit selling you make it buying.

Typical. Only look for the bad and ignore the good.

If you have time try reading this article. It will help your understanding of what has happened so far this century. Because you seem to be missing out on a lot.

The lost decade - BBC News

 

[Astute]

Tony have you ever heard of the word hedging other than in a gardening context?

To Tony if it can't make the EU look good it doesn't exist or it is wrong.

 

[martcov]

Would you want Brexit to be a success if it’s ultimate consequence was they other countries also left and the whole project collapsed?

No. I am not like that. I want a peaceful prosperous Europe. We share a history and we have fought each other for centuries. It would great if we could live together in peace. It would be a good example for the rest of the world as well.

 

[Astute]

It can from the EIB. Which is a bank. It belongs to the EU. But it is a bank. Like SISU owns CCFC but is not CCFC. I thought that was explained to you.

So the bank of the EU which is run by the EU and funded by countries of the EU and loans given out mainly to help countries in the EU (unless it is to work against the UK) has nothing to do with the EU?

And as the EIB called itself. The bank of the EU.

EIB - At a glance

The EIB is the European Union's bank. We are the only bank owned by and representing the interests of the European Union Member States. We work closely with other EU institutions to implement EU policy.

So which part don't you understand?